40:1 instead 32:1

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Hi all, I'm new to this board.
Recently I got my first ever 2 cycle (gas/oil mix). Its a Ryobi 700r weed wacker, used.

The owners manual calls for 32:1
Seeing how this is the only item I have that takes a mix, I was going to go with Trufuel.

The lowest true fuel comes is 40:1

If I add one teaspoon of oil to a quart of Trufuel, it will make it 33.3:1

So even though the manual calls for 32:1, is it safe for the engine to run 40:1 or is 33:1 better?

I will trust the board here.
 
Buy the Trufuel and add oil. You could get away with leaning the oil mix on some of the old 2 strokes that were originally made to run on SAE 30 engine oil, but on any modern or semi modern engine, I'd stick with their recommended ratio- or at least really close.
 
Originally Posted By: EddieBear
Hi all, I'm new to this board.
Recently I got my first ever 2 cycle (gas/oil mix). Its a Ryobi 700r weed wacker, used.


Since you are new to 2 cycle you need to know that if you change the ratio you'll also need to adjust the carburetor. If you go from 32:1 to 40:1 or 50:1 it will be running rich, if you go the opposite from 40:1 to 32:1 it would be lean without carburetor adjustment.
 
Originally Posted By: FastGame
Originally Posted By: EddieBear
Hi all, I'm new to this board.
Recently I got my first ever 2 cycle (gas/oil mix). Its a Ryobi 700r weed wacker, used.


Since you are new to 2 cycle you need to know that if you change the ratio you'll also need to adjust the carburetor. If you go from 32:1 to 40:1 or 50:1 it will be running rich, if you go the opposite from 40:1 to 32:1 it would be lean without carburetor adjustment.

Not necessarily. It all depends on how concentrated the oil is. If you use a more concentrated oil at 40:1 it'll give you the same mixture as less concentrated oil at 32:1.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: FastGame
Originally Posted By: EddieBear
Hi all, I'm new to this board.
Recently I got my first ever 2 cycle (gas/oil mix). Its a Ryobi 700r weed wacker, used.


Since you are new to 2 cycle you need to know that if you change the ratio you'll also need to adjust the carburetor. If you go from 32:1 to 40:1 or 50:1 it will be running rich, if you go the opposite from 40:1 to 32:1 it would be lean without carburetor adjustment.

Not necessarily. It all depends on how concentrated the oil is. If you use a more concentrated oil at 40:1 it'll give you the same mixture as less concentrated oil at 32:1.


I know that...but unless you know how to tune 2 strokes how would a person know the oil is thick or thin ? Is a person new to 2 Cycle supposed to read PDF spec's ? guess ? or maybe be advised that you can't just switch ratio's without expecting to do something...if you don't know how to tune 2 strokes you will never know if you need to adjust the carb.
 
I use the Stihl HP Ultra it mixes at about 48:1. Still guarantees double the warranty if U use it. Just a thought. Certainly should do fine at 40:1.
Note: I am not saying it any better than any other oil.
 
OK, so it seems that it's about 4 for 40:1 and 3 for 33:1 with a few with votes for both.

It seems that 40:1 will work fine but that 33:1 would be SAFER as I don't know anything about tuning or how a properly tuned 2 cycle engine sounds (as it's tuned from the factory for 32:1).

I wasn't sure if making 40:1 in to 33:1 was a waste of time even though it would take 1 minute to do.

The guy who sold it to me put 40:1 Truful in it but said he just left the choke half closed, Could the be do to the fuel mixture?

My calcs were:
Trufuel is 40:1
soo..

32oz fuel / .8oz oil = 40:1
1 tsp = .16oz (.8oz + .16oz = .96oz)
32oz fuel / .96oz oil = 33.33:1


I'm sure I'm over thinking it but being new to 2 cycle I don't want to run in to problems that can be avoided.

I do have OCD, so ya, it means all my yard equipment is fully maintained. LOL, One of my Toro's is 8 years old and looks and runs like new.


Even this Ryobi i bought use, I will change the gas lines, plug ect.


I really do appreciate the help here. sorry for the long post.
 
No need for OCD when it comes to air cooled small engines. You can get away with a lot. 32:1 on a string trimmer? I would place that at quite a bit more than necessary. Tanaka says the same thing. Then they state you can use oil mix at 50:1 in you're in California in the same line on most of their manuals.

Standard 2 cycle oil should be more than adequate at 40:1 and if you really want to pay for TruFuel, that's your call. Personally, I'd run Amsoil Saber at 64:1 with Shell V-Power 93 octane and call it a day. I've been running that setup in my 32:1 Lawnboy and it runs like a champ at 3600rpm for hours at a time.
 
Originally Posted By: FastGame
I know that...but unless you know how to tune 2 strokes how would a person know the oil is thick or thin ?

You don't need to know. Just follow the directions on oil bottle. If it says it's meant to be mixed 40:1, then that's what you should do.
 
Originally Posted By: FastGame
Since you are new to 2 cycle you need to know that if you change the ratio you'll also need to adjust the carburetor. If you go from 32:1 to 40:1 or 50:1 it will be running rich, if you go the opposite from 40:1 to 32:1 it would be lean without carburetor adjustment.

Nonsense.
Everything else being equal, running either a 32:1 or 40:1 gas/oil mixture ratio will NOT make ANY difference in the air/fuel mixture ratio and need for a carburetor adjustment.
What WILL affect the air/fuel mixture ratio and need for a carburetor adjustment is the gas itself... it's quality, it's age, if it has ethanol in it (and how much), and if the gas has had dirt/debris in it that has gotten into the carburetor and caused a partial fuel restriction. The purchase and use of TruFuel pretty much eliminates these problems. The carburetor may need to be adjusted when you first use TruFuel, but then it will need to be readjusted if you switch back to pump gas.
IMHO it is safer running 40:1 TruFuel than pump gas with ethanol in it at 32:1
 
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Originally Posted By: wag123
Originally Posted By: FastGame
Since you are new to 2 cycle you need to know that if you change the ratio you'll also need to adjust the carburetor. If you go from 32:1 to 40:1 or 50:1 it will be running rich, if you go the opposite from 40:1 to 32:1 it would be lean without carburetor adjustment.

Nonsense.
Everything else being equal, running either a 32:1 or 40:1 gas/oil mixture ratio will NOT make ANY difference in the air/fuel mixture ratio and need for a carburetor adjustment.
What WILL affect the air/fuel mixture ratio and need for a carburetor adjustment is the gas itself... it's quality, it's age, if it has ethanol in it (and how much), and if the gas has had dirt/debris in it that has gotten into the carburetor and caused a partial fuel restriction. The purchase and use of TruFuel pretty much eliminates these problems. The carburetor may need to be adjusted when you first use TruFuel, but then it will need to be readjusted if you switch back to pump gas.

I couldn't find any concrete source, but common knowledge says that if you adjust the fuel/oil ratio, you are adjusting the air/fuel ratio. Now on under stressed OPE, you probably won't have a rapid problem ignoring this fact, but anyone who races two strokes seriously doesn't play with oil ratios without understanding the effect on the air/fuel ratios.
 
Originally Posted By: IndyIan

I couldn't find any concrete source, but common knowledge says that if you adjust the fuel/oil ratio, you are adjusting the air/fuel ratio. Now on under stressed OPE, you probably won't have a rapid problem ignoring this fact, but anyone who races two strokes seriously doesn't play with oil ratios without understanding the effect on the air/fuel ratios.

Negative.
The oil itself does not make any meaningful difference in the stoichiometric air/fuel mixture ratio in a crude low compression carbureted engine (particularly when you are comparing the difference in gas/oil ratios of 32:1 verses 40:1), the low compression keeps the oil from actually contributing to the stoichiometric mixture ratio because the oil doesn't actually burn. Most of what little oil there is ends-up going out the exhaust unburnt.
 
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Correct me if wrong here,
Adjusting the mixture screws on let's say a weed trimmer, does not change the oil/fuel ratio entering the engine. The mixture screw controls the "amount" of fuel mixing with the air. Turning a mixture screw in reduces the amount of fuel mixing with air so that would be a lean mixture (not enough fuel). Turning the mixture screw out "Increases" the amount of fuel mixing with air, so that would be a rich mixture (to much fuel).
 
Originally Posted By: wag123

Negative.
The oil itself does not make any meaningful difference in the stoichiometric air/fuel mixture ratio in a crude low compression carbureted engine (particularly when you are comparing the difference in gas/oil ratios of 32:1 verses 40:1), the low compression keeps the oil from actually contributing to the stoichiometric mixture ratio because the oil doesn't actually burn. Most of what little oil there is ends-up going out the exhaust unburnt.


So every 32 pints of fuel, I have to drain a pint of oil out of the muffler ?

I've never experienced that.
 
Two Stroke Fuel/Oil Ratios

Lubrication of the moving parts in a two stroke engine (without oil injection) is dependent on the oil that is pre- mixed with the fuel. The quantity of oil needed for lubrication is relatively small but must be constantly re-supplied.
As the rising piston draws the atomized mix into the crankcase through the one-way reed valve, the oil tends to separate out into tiny droplets lubricating the bearings, cylinder wall and piston. As the piston descends, the gasoline (along with a quantity of oil) is forced through the transfer ports into the combustion chamber side of the piston where it is compressed and burned. Generally, the oil stays in the crankcase longer while the gasoline passes quickly through. Here is where the fuel to oil mix ratio comes into play. Too little oil in the mix and you risk piston scoring and possible seizure, too much oil and excess carbon deposits form in the combustion chamber and exhaust ports, and even richer mixes will send unburned oil out the exhaust where it will pool in the muffler and drip from the exhaust pipe. Also, when too much oil is present, spark plug fouling becomes a problem. An ideal ratio allows enough oil for lubrication while minimizing oil buildup in the crankcase. Some important factors help determine this ratio starting with the maximum RPM of the engine. The higher the rpm the more oil is needed for adequate lubrication. Because the fuel/oil mix moves through the engine faster as the rpm increases, a high revving (10,000 rpm) two stroke may require a 16:1 ratio to maintain a sufficient lubrication presence inside the engine. (Oil injection by a metering pump has been used as a way of dealing with these varying lubrication needs. These pumps use a control cable which moves in conjunction with the throttle cable delivering more oil as the rpm increases and very little at idle.) Another factor in determining the amount of oil needed is the type of bearings used in the engine. As a rule, plain bearings require more oil whereas needle bearings and ball bearings require less oil. Most brands of two stroke oil made from natural petroleum are specified at ratios ranging from 32:1 to 50:1. Synthetic two stroke oil however may be recommended by the manufacturer at ratios as high as 100:1. These high ratios are necessary because some synthetics do not “flash off” hot engine parts as easily as natural oil and if used at the same ratios will result in excessive crankcase oil build up leading to a similar condition stated earlier where unburned oil is blown out the exhaust ports into the muffler. Modern two stroke oil, both natural and synthetic, are formulated to lubricate and burn cleanly at the oil manufacturers recommended mix ratios² and are the preferred choice over regular four stroke motor oil.

¹ When using premix, regardless of oil brand or type, a certain amount of oil will accumulate in the crankcase at idle, or in engines with a low maximum rpm such as a Lawn Boy (3200 rpm). This excess oil can only leave the engine by passing through the combustion chamber, and as it does, varying degrees of smoking will occur.

² If you change a mix ratio for a particular engine from say 32:1 to 40:1 making a slightly richer in fuel mix, or go the other way from 40:1 to 32:1 making the mix slightly leaner in fuel, a carburetor re-adjustment may be necessary.


I hope this helps with understanding two strokes
 
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Mike72, nice work.

My yard equipment, I increase the oil until the exhaust is damp...IMO, that means that there is some oil making it all the way through to the exhaust port.
 
I'm fortunate to have all Stihl and Husky equipment at work and use their oil with e10 with no problems.

Just a few observations in this nit picking thread:

- Some people misunderstand the use of the term "rich" and it's application to fuel vs. oil content.

- I have read (not experienced) that switching back and forth from e10 to non ethanol fuel can affect the carb operation a bit also, maybe requiring a bit of tweaking for those with a golden ear.

My question regards very old equipment that recommended 16:1 ratios. Was this because the oil was "weaker", for lack of a better term? Should a person run today's modern 50:1 oils at 16:1 or 50:1 in this old equipment? This might even cover the OP's question of what to mix his 32:1 OPE at. Is this an "oil thing" or an equipment design thing?
 
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