4 way stops

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eljefino

eljefino

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What is the deal with people not using turn signals at 4-way stops? To me that is the absolutely most relevant place in all of driving to use them!

There's a 4-way a block from my house between two busy 2-lane (one in each direction) state highways. It gets busy enough to create tie-ups in rush hour traffic. 95% of the drivers do this 4-way every day and know how to make it flow.

Our traffic pattern is, if you're going straight, and your oncoming guy is also going straight, you both get to go. I don't know if it's legal but it sure speeds things up. Whoever was "first" and has the right of way also "promotes" the oncoming car if they are also going straight.

Turning: If two cars are turning left and both have their blinkers on, they go at the same time and make it through. Same with two cars turning right. If a set of cars is going straight sometimes you can slither down the breakdown lane and turn right using the straight car as a "blocker". These 3-fers really speed things up.

Now, on to what makes me irate!

People who don't use their left blinker! Since they're "on deck" and have the right of way, I start rolling when they do. Then they cut in front of me, against the local custom. I'm sure in their little puny minds they were taught by that perverted driver's ed teacher that there's only supposed to be one car in that intersection. This might even be the law but it's not local custom. Conversely, if I'm turning left, I appreciate the heads-up from oncoming left-turners who got there first whom I assume to be going straight. This can make me miss my turn if I'm slow on the gas. (rare)

People unknowledgeable of the fact it's their turn slow everyone down. Local drivers are actually polite enough to give these clowns many seconds of waving. File with "over-polite" and/or "over-safe" (which isn't).
 
The few traffic circles I've driven through work better than 4-way stops. There's two on US30 west of York PA, and then there's one in MD just off I70 near Smithsburg.

The ones in DC are a mess, but then everything in DC is a mess. If you need traffic lights to control access to a traffic circle, there's a problem.
 
I think the ones in NJ (circles) work great. Granted, some folks are too aggressive on them, and having to accelerate very hard or squeeze through on a circle, can be unsafe and is just plain lousy. But, for the most part, they save time, IMO.

JMH
 
I wish manufacturers would make blinkers that were more visible at a greater angle. Sometimes I'll be staring right at a car that I've met at a 4-way and I don't realize he's blinking until I'm passing him.

Steve
 
Could we have a moratorium on new 4 way stops until people start using the ones we have properly?

My little berg is losing population, but gaining several 4 ways every year.
 
Roundabouts (aka traffic circles) are wonderful! It's so nice to not have to stop all the time! They are absolutely perfect to replace both stop signs, and stoplights at low and medium traffic intersections.
 
Traffic circles are great.

They put one near the local community college. Works great.

The powers that be want to put some on the Guide Meridian (Bellingham-Lynden-Canada boder crossing)....all the old folks and other stick in the mudders say they are "dangerous", "big trucks", etc.....no facts. Just words.
 
traffic circles ARE great but they do take a bit of getting used to.....

My first trip to Scotland, exiting the airport in a rental into my first of many TC.....very nerve wracking for a bit. I went around more than once, more than once....ala Chevy Chase in Euro Vacation... After a day or so, no sweat. The Scots were very understanding people....
 
I'm convinced that, for the most part, people are not nearly mature enough for 4-way stops. Around these parts, it becomes a matter of every man for himself. Whoever gets through first without hitting anything wins. Drives me CRAZY! No one understands the concept of right of way.

On a related note, what is the point of yield signs? They might as well change it to read "Go ahead and just run right through, they'll let you in anyway". IMHO, all yield signs should be replaced with stop signs for that reason. No one pays a yield sign any heed.
 
I hate the people that don't signal as well. It's just SO self-centered and inconsiderate.

Traffic circles can have their place. They seem to work fairly well in relatively low-traffic intersections. They do take some getting used to.

The first ones I ever encountered were in Australia. Imagine the brain cramp when I was driving on the right-hand side of the car (I've done that before for a moment, but not with all the controls over there!), on the left-hand side of the road in heavy traffic and suddenly had to negotiate this crazy intersection I'd only ever seen on TV going left!!

No one was hurt and I got the hang of it pretty quickly, but it was sure odd the first time! So was being in the right-turn lane at a traffic light. It's in the middle of the road and you have to turn over to the left-hand side of the middle of the other road!
 
quote:
Originally posted by Matt_S:
On a related note, what is the point of yield signs?
Click to expand...
They assign right-of-way, and therefore, fault in the event of an accident. A Yield sign might read:

"Stop or slow as required to avoid an accident, otherwise stopping or slowing is optional. Any accidents caused by failure to stop or slow at this sign will be your fault".

But they probably couldn't fit all of that text on a sign and everyone would be stopping to read it all anyway.

EDIT: There are people who treat yield signs like stop signs, stopping when there is NO need for it, who obviously don't get the point of yield signs.

[ May 25, 2005, 02:22 PM: Message edited by: brianl703 ]
 
It is true that 4-way stops are abused by yokel towns for "traffic calming". They appear most often near high schools along with strict speed limits. Police patrols are like shooting fish in a barrel, knowing school hours. It is frustrating when people buy houses on a "most direct route" then get annoyed by the traffic and try to change things.

Naturally, detouring said traffic on a more indirect route annoys those residents, and a race to the bottom is started... with speed tables, absurd speed limits, 4-way stops, yadda yadda.
 
quote:
Originally posted by brianl703:

quote:
Originally posted by Matt_S:
On a related note, what is the point of yield signs?
Click to expand...
They assign right-of-way, and therefore, fault in the event of an accident. A Yield sign might read:

"Stop or slow as required to avoid an accident, otherwise stopping or slowing is optional. Any accidents caused by failure to stop or slow at this sign will be your fault".

But they probably couldn't fit all of that text on a sign and everyone would be stopping to read it all anyway.

EDIT: There are people who treat yield signs like stop signs, stopping when there is NO need for it, who obviously don't get the point of yield signs.
Click to expand...
Just for the record, I completely understand the point of yield signs, I just get upset with those who don't. Case in point is an entrance onto southbound I75 from Rochester Rd, one of the major surface streets around here. The freeway entrance is a cloverleaf-type. The traffic on southbound Rochester enters the cloverleaf directly. The traffic on northbound Rochester turns left onto a connecting ramp that merges with the cloverleaf. There's a yield sign at the end of that connector, but I very rarely see anyone yield the right of way to the southbound traffic. They treat it like a freeway merge, where, according to MI law at least, there is no real right of way. This is dangerous and disruptive, IMO. A stop sign would be much more appropriate there. That's only one case out of many I've seen where people treat a yield sign as if it didn't exist, though.
 
Here in Virginia, they have started to put YIELD signs up with an additional sign saying "NO MERGE AREA" if there is no merge area. People apparently assume that there is. I wonder if that's what's happing there?

I've seen people who treated a yield sign as if it didn't exist only to realize, at the last minute, that it DOES indeed exist. Usually this is because the cars who have right-of-way aren't slowing down for them.

I don't think the solution is to replace the yield sign with a stop sign. People do not obey those any better than they do a yield sign.
 
I must go through five 4way stops on my 12 mile commute to work...And the same 5 on my way home.

Nobody lets you go when it's your turn. Most just stop and go w/o looking like theres no side streets.
 
Custom here is, at a four-way, to let the first stopped to be the first departed. Some old brain cells, barely connected, seem to recall (correctly?), that "the person on the left" or some such has the right-of-way. Anyone? I've been too lazy to go look it up.

As to using stop signs, I get real tired of those who run the stop signs (about 90% of traffic). By such I mean that they stop beyond the imaginary line the stop sign imposes across the roadway. All too often, and especially at four-way stops, the stop is only a pause. In some cases not even that ("experience" shows the moron that time of day and traffic "allows" him to pretty much not even make much of a stab at the brakes).

Luckily, state law allows a full stop ten feet before that imaginary line, so timing ones way across the 4-way can be worked to advantage. Funny to see the reactions of others when you actually the use the rules to advantage. (Carefully).

As to yield signs, nothing worse, in my opinion than those who treat them as stop signs. Our freeways nearly all have service roads paralleling the main lanes, and exit ramps from freeway to service road are speed metered. Problem is that no one, virtually, pays any attention to that speed, and, thus, we have the situation wherein the yield now bears the weight of "stop" in the minds of many.

My training, and conversations with police has left me with the understanding that "yield" means but one thing: as two vehicles approach a point in space equally (so to speak), the one in the yield lane must give right-of-way to the other.


Most service roads are 45 mph unless otherwise marked, and most local freeways are 55-60-65 mph, with ramp exit speeds generally 35-40 mph. From which one might deduce that the freeway exiting driver not only has to slow, but is given only a "slight" advantage as he merges onto the service road.

Reality is that the freeway driver has little intention of doing more that shedding about 10 mph in exiting, and then, long beyond the point of the posted signs line.

Makes for "interesting" calculations, as you cruise the service road, of what the "exiting/entering" driver will do. As with the stop sign runners.
 
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