4 stroke bike oils in cars?

Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
Ahh, the picture of the motorcycle on the bottle. Fools the fool every time.

If You have a 60's muscle car and you want a high(er) ZPD lube you can buy off the shelf for a reasonable price?



VR1 is available pretty much everywhere, for a cheap option with high zinc - maybe easier to source than a specialist motorcycle oil?
 
Originally Posted by Olas

The important fact here is wether or not the motorcycle oil you are looking it is for a WET clutch bike or a DRY clutch bike. BIG differences in formulation, we should only use DRY CLUTCH bike oil in cars.

Why ?
Not trying to be rude, I just don't see why.

I know resource conserving cars oils with friction modifiers should not be used in wet clutch (shared sump) bikes, because they could make the bike clutch slip. But I've never heard of a problem the other way around (bike oil in a car).
 
I can think of several reasons not to use 4-stroke motorcycle oil in an automotive application:
Significantly increased cost
Lack of friction modifiers
Refused warranty coverage and may actually void warranty
Use the right tool for the job (and this isn't it)

If you must add a boost to your "regular" car oil, buy an oil booster product (not recommended), or buy a quart of boutique oil with more Gp IV and Gp V base (e.g. Amsoil, Redline). Or just use the boutique oil instead of your regular stuff, it might be cheaper than 4-stroke oil.
 
Found this one:

https://www.oil-club.ru/forum/topic/46987-liqui-moly-motorbike-4t-synth-street-race-10w-50-svezhee/

This oil is also Available in 10w-40 or 5w-40.

Here is the Translation of the VOA:

The oil is stated as: API SN Plus, JASO MA2.
1) viscosity characteristics are in accordance with SAE J300. This oil is really 10W-50.
2) base number = 5.69mgKOH - detergent neutralizing properties are average. Alkaline sufficient for motorcycle operation, no more is needed, only excess ash.
3) Sulphated ash = 0.75 - praise, very low. This will have a beneficial effect in terms of minimizing abrasive ash deposits on valves, bearings in the high temperature zone, direct injection nozzles, piston crown, etc. The oil is heaped up with additives and at the same time is pure for sulphate ash.
4) Flash point = 265C - wow! Perhaps the best in the history of Oil Club analyzes, in this viscosity ... The oil is thermostable at the most extreme temperatures. The flash gives a hint that not just PAO 6 is used here, but most likely there is PAO 8, PAO 10 or mPAO in the composition. Hence such crazy thermal stability.
5) NOACK = 4.1% - confirms that the flash is detected correctly, this is not an error. The oil is very thermally stable at high temperatures and will not fade (if it depends on the oil). NOACK Liqui Moly showed a record, especially for this viscosity of 10W-50.
6) The pour point is -43C - I don't know who needs it on a motorcycle, but it's good.
7) The sulfur content of 0.257% is the minimum. It can be seen that Liqui Moly has a pure PAO base oil and additives.
8) The additive package is a different story. Firstly, a special 4Stroke recipe for PJSC for extreme and sports, this is not an economically viable "diesel collective farm" on the API CJ-4 crack with JASO MA2. There is a friction modifier, an antioxidant, an antiwear additive based on titanium oxide. Sodium is a detergent, antioxidant that reduces ash content. Phosphorus and zinc based antiwear additives. Note phosphorus and zinc are not 1700-1800ppm, which means the oil is suitable for modern motorcycles with catalytic converters. Well, calcium as the main detergent, detergent additive. The Fourier IR spectrum indicates that the oil is completely based on PAO synthetics, pure PAO.

Conclusion: This oil lives up to every word in its name. It really is "Street Race". It really is "4Stroke". And yes, this is real PAO synthetics without compromise. It has a record, in its class, thermal stability at high temperatures. If you have a motorcycle in a race, heat and constant overheating, insufficient cooling is the oil for you. Low ash will result in less hard abrasive deposits. Expensive? Yes, but it's worth it ...



So... i am tempted to use this oil in a car.
It has a API SN PLUS appoval, it is safe for catalyst, the base number is high enough for a sommer toy car with short OCIs and it has a friction modifier. On Paper, this oil looks like a winner.

Thoughts?
 
Last edited:
Wow.....very interesting oil
KV100 = 18.25 cSt
TBN = 5.69
Noack = 4.1 %
Zn = 956 ppm
Ca = 1356 ppm
Na = 440 ppm
Ti = 36 ppm

That is a very low Noack Volatility, it must be very good base stock. I’m surprised that a SN-Plus oil has so much sodium, it’s usually the other way, but Liqui Moly is a name brand and they know what they are doing, so I’m sure they are correct, probably a more advanced formula. Made in Germany.

I like it, it has a lowish TBN, so I wouldn’t stretch the oil change interval without a UOA to back it up. But with an oil this advanced, who knows, it may have very long legs due to good modern low sulphur fuel and very stable base stock in the oil.

As an oil, I would use it, but it’s way too expensive for my mundane application so I’ll just have to wait for your feedback.
 
ChristianReske said:
Found this one:

https://www.oil-club.ru/forum/topic/46987-liqui-moly-motorbike-4t-synth-street-race-10w-50-svezhee/

This oil is also Available in 10w-40 or 5w-40.

Here is the Translation of the VOA:

The oil is stated as: API SN Plus, JASO MA2.
1) viscosity characteristics are in accordance with SAE J300. This oil is really 10W-50.
2) base number = 5.69mgKOH - detergent neutralizing properties are average. Alkaline sufficient for motorcycle operation, no more is needed, only excess ash.
3) Sulphated ash = 0.75 - praise, very low. This will have a beneficial effect in terms of minimizing abrasive ash deposits on valves, bearings in the high temperature zone, direct injection nozzles, piston crown, etc. The oil is heaped up with additives and at the same time is pure for sulphate ash.
4) Flash point = 265C - wow! Perhaps the best in the history of Oil Club analyzes, in this viscosity ... The oil is thermostable at the most extreme temperatures. The flash gives a hint that not just PAO 6 is used here, but most likely there is PAO 8, PAO 10 or mPAO in the composition. Hence such crazy thermal stability.
5) NOACK = 4.1% - confirms that the flash is detected correctly, this is not an error. The oil is very thermally stable at high temperatures and will not fade (if it depends on the oil). NOACK Liqui Moly showed a record, especially for this viscosity of 10W-50.
6) The pour point is -43C - I don't know who needs it on a motorcycle, but it's good.
7) The sulfur content of 0.257% is the minimum. It can be seen that Liqui Moly has a pure PAO base oil and additives.
8) The additive package is a different story. Firstly, a special 4Stroke recipe for PJSC for extreme and sports, this is not an economically viable "diesel collective farm" on the API CJ-4 crack with JASO MA2. There is a friction modifier, an antioxidant, an antiwear additive based on titanium oxide. Sodium is a detergent, antioxidant that reduces ash content. Phosphorus and zinc based antiwear additives. Note phosphorus and zinc are not 1700-1800ppm, which means the oil is suitable for modern motorcycles with catalytic converters. Well, calcium as the main detergent, detergent additive. The Fourier IR spectrum indicates that the oil is completely based on PAO synthetics, pure PAO.

Conclusion: This oil lives up to every word in its name. It really is "Street Race". It really is "4Stroke". And yes, this is real PAO synthetics without compromise. It has a record, in its class, thermal stability at high temperatures. If you have a motorcycle in a race, heat and constant overheating, insufficient cooling is the oil for you. Low ash will result in less hard abrasive deposits. Expensive? Yes, but it's worth it ...



So... i am tempted to use this oil in a car.
It has a API SN PLUS appoval, it is safe for catalyst, the base number is high enough for a sommer toy car with short OCIs and it has a friction modifier. On Paper, this oil looks like a winner.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Seems Ravenol has a couple similar products also in 10w-50:
https://www.ravenol.de/en/product-r...nces-1/ravenol-motobike-4-t-ester-sae-10w-50/
https://www.ravenol.de/en/product-r...ces-1/ravenol-racing-4-t-motobike-sae-10w-50/

Screen Shot 2021-09-01 at 2.04.27 PM.png

Screen Shot 2021-09-01 at 2.04.55 PM.png


I'd also note that the Russian results deviate, significantly, from the LM official PDS for this oil:
Screen Shot 2021-09-01 at 2.08.47 PM.webp


They received a lower Noack figure (Noack variability is at least 1% IIRC) and significantly higher flash point (446F is 230C).

Still, excellent Noack, but likely comparable to other products from other manufactures in the same grade.
 
Last edited:
Just had a conversation via E-Mail with a Liqui Moly technican.
They dont test Motorcycle oils in Cars, so if i use it, i do it at own risk. Of course.
But, as the oil carrys a API SN Plus approval, it is good to go and safe for catalyst. He told me that the lack of friction modifier will maybe result in sligthly higher fuel consumption, but i am free to add some friction modifier (I asked about Liqui Moly Ceratec ) when i use it in a car engine. And of course he told me that this is not a so called "long life oil" and i should keep the OCI short.

Worth a try? I think so. On Paper and according to the russian VOA it looks like a top oil for sporty gasoline engines.
 
Last edited:
ChristianReske said:
They dont test Motorcycle oils in Cars, so if i use it, i do it at own risk. Of course.
He told me that the lack of friction modifier will maybe result in sligthly higher fuel consumption, but i am free to add some friction modifier (I asked about Liqui Moly Ceratec ) when i use it in a car engine. And of course he told me that this is not a so called "long life oil" and i should keep the OCI short.
Click to expand...
 
@ ka9mnx:
Beside the friction modifier and the lack of the "ACEA A 3/A4 MB 229.5 .....what ever" printing on the jug, where is the difference to a car oil?
The VOA looks very good. the physical properties and the additive pack look very good. Do i still need the approvals printed on the jug?
And of course they dont test a Motorcycle oil for cars, this would be a waste of money for the company.

Some people here use race oils in their cars, this oils also dont have any approvals...
Some people use HDEO Oil in Motorcycles...
 
Nope, only 5w-40, 10w-40, 10w-50, 10w-60. The typical Motorcycle viscosity range.

By the way, i realy forgott one important point: It is likely that the VI Improvers in this oils are of better quality, more stable compared to a "off the shelf" car oil.
 
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