4.6l DOHC, looking for recommendations

[229]

Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Originally Posted By: jakemarsh7
ExMachina, I would do a 40 weight but these motors seem to have tight clearances and it's rare that I'd see anybody running anything over 30 in this particular motor
Tight clearances have nothing to do with not being able to run a 0w-40. One example is a current Mustang GT with Track-pack uses 50 weight oil from Ford recommendations. Another example is Ferrari and BMW using 10w-60 if the owner run them hard once in a while, which happens! In general, only go to a 0w-40 if you want the extra protection that tracked-race conditions need, or if you plan on running it hard occasionally, otherwise 5w-30 will work fine.


Those engines are 0.003" bearing clearance and the Modular specifying xW20 has 0.0015" bearing clearance and small restrictors in two camshaft caps so please use the specified oil. I have seen the grooved aluminum cam caps from improper oiling and usually requires head replacement $$$$. HTHY

 

[ExMachina]

Originally Posted By: 229
Those engines are 0.003" bearing clearance and the Modular specifying xW20 has 0.0015" bearing clearance and small restrictors in two camshaft caps so please use the specified oil. I have seen the grooved aluminum cam caps from improper oiling and usually requires head replacement $$$$. HTHY

A -40 oil has about a 10% higher viscosity than a -30 oil at operating temperature. Those bearings will be filled with either slightly different thickness oils.
A -40 will have a thicker oil film for higher loads.
Cam caps you mentioned fail due to varnish and sludge build-up in the feeds, not small hot viscosity differences.

 

[JustinH]

Post some pictures of your 4v swap, would love to see them.

What did it make on the dyno, and have you tuned it?

I do love the sound of the 4v motor, but if you would have stuck with the 2v GT engine you could have made a ton of power just doing a few things to it.

Don't even need to put a blower on it, build the bottom end, heads and cams, then tune it.

They are neat cars.

 

[jakemarsh7]

well yeah but my motor is completely different than the newer ones that have 50 weight oil recommended. I don't track my car at all, just "spirited" driving on regular roads, not pushing it too hard besides some hard pulls on the highway every now and then

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: 229
Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Originally Posted By: jakemarsh7
ExMachina, I would do a 40 weight but these motors seem to have tight clearances and it's rare that I'd see anybody running anything over 30 in this particular motor
Tight clearances have nothing to do with not being able to run a 0w-40. One example is a current Mustang GT with Track-pack uses 50 weight oil from Ford recommendations. Another example is Ferrari and BMW using 10w-60 if the owner run them hard once in a while, which happens! In general, only go to a 0w-40 if you want the extra protection that tracked-race conditions need, or if you plan on running it hard occasionally, otherwise 5w-30 will work fine.


Those engines are 0.003" bearing clearance and the Modular specifying xW20 has 0.0015" bearing clearance and small restrictors in two camshaft caps so please use the specified oil. I have seen the grooved aluminum cam caps from improper oiling and usually requires head replacement $$$$. HTHY


This is an older Modular, one that was spec'd for xW-30.

 

[tig1]

The main and rod bearing clearance on both of my Duratech 4 cyl engines is: Mains .0007-.0013. Rods: .001-.002. No wonder Ford calls for 20wt oils.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: tig1
The main and rod bearing clearance on both of my Duratech 4 cyl engines is: Mains .0007-.0013. Rods: .001-.002. No wonder Ford calls for 20wt oils.


How do they survive cold start-up when the oil is 700 times as thick as it is at 100C ?

especially if 10-20% is going to cause a problem ?

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: tig1
The main and rod bearing clearance on both of my Duratech 4 cyl engines is: Mains .0007-.0013. Rods: .001-.002. No wonder Ford calls for 20wt oils.


How do they survive cold start-up when the oil is 700 times as thick as it is at 100C ?

especially if 10-20% is going to cause a problem ?


Just fine. Remember, 40-50-60 wt oils aren't for every engine. Other engines like my Fords, perform very well on 20wt. oils, as my engines did in the late 60s and 70s especially when using M1 5-20 back then.

 

[TFB1]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: tig1
The main and rod bearing clearance on both of my Duratech 4 cyl engines is: Mains .0007-.0013. Rods: .001-.002. No wonder Ford calls for 20wt oils.


How do they survive cold start-up when the oil is 700 times as thick as it is at 100C ?

especially if 10-20% is going to cause a problem ?

This is what many here on BITOG have problem understanding, if the molasses thick oil in January(ahem, July for Shannow) doesn't cause a problem, a xW-30 or xW-40 over 0/5W-20 won't either...

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: TFB1
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: tig1
The main and rod bearing clearance on both of my Duratech 4 cyl engines is: Mains .0007-.0013. Rods: .001-.002. No wonder Ford calls for 20wt oils.


How do they survive cold start-up when the oil is 700 times as thick as it is at 100C ?

especially if 10-20% is going to cause a problem ?

This is what many here on BITOG have problem understanding, if the molasses thick oil in January(ahem, July for Shannow) doesn't cause a problem, a xW-30 or xW-40 over 0/5W-20 won't either...


You said "if". I have seem engines clatter(valve train) badly in cold temps with 40 wt oils where 20 wt oils did not. In cold temps heavier oils do not flow through the engine nearly as quick as 20 wt oils.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: TFB1
This is what many here on BITOG have problem understanding, if the molasses thick oil in January(ahem, July for Shannow) doesn't cause a problem, a xW-30 or xW-40 over 0/5W-20 won't either...


You said "if". I have seem engines clatter(valve train) badly in cold temps with 40 wt oils where 20 wt oils did not. In cold temps heavier oils do not flow through the engine nearly as quick as 20 wt oils.


What temperature, and what "W" rating for the 40s ?

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: TFB1
This is what many here on BITOG have problem understanding, if the molasses thick oil in January(ahem, July for Shannow) doesn't cause a problem, a xW-30 or xW-40 over 0/5W-20 won't either...


You said "if". I have seem engines clatter(valve train) badly in cold temps with 40 wt oils where 20 wt oils did not. In cold temps heavier oils do not flow through the engine nearly as quick as 20 wt oils.


What temperature, and what "W" rating for the 40s ?


10-40 Valvoline. Lifter clatter is what drove me to using M1 in the latter 70's. Friends were using it with great success, but the $5 a qt(Valvoline was .35-.45) price stopped me for a while, but anguish won out. Amazing differance in start up ease and quite engine performance won me over, all with 10K OCI.

 

[Brian Barnhart]

One engine development enginner at Ford who saw many teardowns highly recommends staying away from 5W20 in the Modulars, especially the 4V models. Others have used 5W20 with good results.

Link with quotes

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: TFB1
This is what many here on BITOG have problem understanding, if the molasses thick oil in January(ahem, July for Shannow) doesn't cause a problem, a xW-30 or xW-40 over 0/5W-20 won't either...


You said "if". I have seem engines clatter(valve train) badly in cold temps with 40 wt oils where 20 wt oils did not. In cold temps heavier oils do not flow through the engine nearly as quick as 20 wt oils.


What temperature, and what "W" rating for the 40s ?


10-40 Valvoline. Lifter clatter is what drove me to using M1 in the latter 70's. Friends were using it with great success, but the $5 a qt(Valvoline was .35-.45) price stopped me for a while, but anguish won out. Amazing differance in start up ease and quite engine performance won me over, all with 10K OCI.


Temperature ???

 

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted By: Brian Barnhart
One engine development enginner at Ford who saw many teardowns highly recommends staying away from 5W20 in the Modulars, especially the 4V models. Others have used 5W20 with good results.

Link with quotes


Yup. The real secret of 5/20. I'vebeen getting iincredible results using 5/20 in my 5.4 triton, however.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Brian Barnhart
Link with quotes

Interesting, but some really mangled terminology in that link. An oil not meeting CAFE standards because of additives? What precisely is that supposed to mean? CAFE has nothing to do with oil additives, and only is involved with viscosity, in a very peripheral way. If an automaker meets its targets and is happy with the result running an SAE 40, they're free to do that.

 

[AdRock]

You can run a 10-40 if you want in that DOHC and it would be fine. I had some 10w40 for a vehicle I didn't have anymore and ran it for an OCI in my 2002 GT SOHC. It ran just as good as it always has.

Personally though, unless there are worries of really worn bearings I always use a 5w30 in the 94-04 mod motors. I did however notice over several OCI's that with Mobil 1, no matter what the weight grade, the valve train was a little noisier than and other oil. But that doesn't mean it wasn't oiling well, just an observation.