257,000 mi of Valvoline conventional 5k OCI (pics)
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Originally Posted By: zamadison
Merkava would tell you to run 40w70 synthetic at 1000 mile oci because the varnish is going to kill your engine any second. To me it just shows that internal combustion engines can run fine on conventional oil and were never meant to stay clean enough on the inside or outside to eat off of.
Going by that picture, the only thing I'll tell you is 5000 miles is too long for that engine. The oil was drying out and started leaving varnish. Whether or not a full synthetic oil would have kept the engine varnish free for 5000 miles, I don't know for sure.
Merkava would tell you to run 40w70 synthetic at 1000 mile oci because the varnish is going to kill your engine any second. To me it just shows that internal combustion engines can run fine on conventional oil and were never meant to stay clean enough on the inside or outside to eat off of.
Going by that picture, the only thing I'll tell you is 5000 miles is too long for that engine. The oil was drying out and started leaving varnish. Whether or not a full synthetic oil would have kept the engine varnish free for 5000 miles, I don't know for sure.
Do the math, Merk. If the OCI had been substantially cut or the conventional had been replaced with a synthetic (without increasing the OCI), a pile of extra money would have been spent, and the thing went 257,000 miles.
Believe it or not this engine has about the same amount of varnish as a GM 3800 I have been privy to see at around 215K miles and M-1 10W30 used exclusively. The owner did not give a rip about the varnish and after over 200K miles I personally would not give a rip about varnish, oil brand, oil grade, or oil category.
If the biggest complaint you can give about someone's accomplishment is slight varnish in a engine that is over a decade old and approaching 300K miles. Then I believe you have way too much time on your hands. Let us see how your engine looks like with your 10K synthetic OCI's at 250K miles please.
If the biggest complaint you can give about someone's accomplishment is slight varnish in a engine that is over a decade old and approaching 300K miles. Then I believe you have way too much time on your hands. Let us see how your engine looks like with your 10K synthetic OCI's at 250K miles please.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Great, but this thing has done more than 2.5X the miles that your Camry has on 5K drains of VWB.
No buts, no contest...just saying it's there sooner under basically the same dino regime, and that I intend to do just what's been suggested in terms of switching to syn...and in 6 months we'll see if there's any improvement...it may be, as I believe, that the metal's chemistry gets altered and the color change is permanent...if it is, and whether that's a problem, well, we'll see 120k miles/10 years from now.
Great, but this thing has done more than 2.5X the miles that your Camry has on 5K drains of VWB.
No buts, no contest...just saying it's there sooner under basically the same dino regime, and that I intend to do just what's been suggested in terms of switching to syn...and in 6 months we'll see if there's any improvement...it may be, as I believe, that the metal's chemistry gets altered and the color change is permanent...if it is, and whether that's a problem, well, we'll see 120k miles/10 years from now.
Not bad for those intervals and milage.
Originally Posted By: zamadison
Merkava would tell you to run 40w70 synthetic at 1000 mile oci because the varnish is going to kill your engine any second. To me it just shows that internal combustion engines can run fine on conventional oil and were never meant to stay clean enough on the inside or outside to eat off of.
Merkava would tell you to run 40w70 synthetic at 1000 mile oci because the varnish is going to kill your engine any second. To me it just shows that internal combustion engines can run fine on conventional oil and were never meant to stay clean enough on the inside or outside to eat off of.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Do the math, Merk. If the OCI had been substantially cut or the conventional had been replaced with a synthetic (without increasing the OCI), a pile of extra money would have been spent, and the thing went 257,000 miles.
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Believe it or not this engine has about the same amount of varnish as a GM 3800 I have been privy to see at around 215K miles and M-1 10W30 used exclusively. The owner did not give a rip about the varnish and after over 200K miles I personally would not give a rip about varnish, oil brand, oil grade, or oil category.
If the biggest complaint you can give about someone's accomplishment is slight varnish in a engine that is over a decade old and approaching 300K miles. Then I believe you have way too much time on your hands. Let us see how your engine looks like with your 10K synthetic OCI's at 250K miles please.
Agree.
My 1994 360+k miles LS400 have 8-10k/6mo OCI with various brands dino and 16-20k/12mo OCI with various brands synthetic. I think it probably has some degree of vanish under the valve over, probably heavy vanish. I don't know for sure because I never remove the valve cover.
If I did shorten OCI with dino to 3-4k and syn to 7-8k, I would do more than twice the number of oil changes over the last 20 years, and the engine under the valve cover may looks a little nicer, but who cares ?
The engine is running okay, no unusual noise and consumes similar amount of oil at the rate of 1/2 qt per 3-4k since new.
I don't think there is a good reason for me to do twice the oil changes as oppose to what I did for the car.
Do the math, Merk. If the OCI had been substantially cut or the conventional had been replaced with a synthetic (without increasing the OCI), a pile of extra money would have been spent, and the thing went 257,000 miles.
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Believe it or not this engine has about the same amount of varnish as a GM 3800 I have been privy to see at around 215K miles and M-1 10W30 used exclusively. The owner did not give a rip about the varnish and after over 200K miles I personally would not give a rip about varnish, oil brand, oil grade, or oil category.
If the biggest complaint you can give about someone's accomplishment is slight varnish in a engine that is over a decade old and approaching 300K miles. Then I believe you have way too much time on your hands. Let us see how your engine looks like with your 10K synthetic OCI's at 250K miles please.
Agree.
My 1994 360+k miles LS400 have 8-10k/6mo OCI with various brands dino and 16-20k/12mo OCI with various brands synthetic. I think it probably has some degree of vanish under the valve over, probably heavy vanish. I don't know for sure because I never remove the valve cover.
If I did shorten OCI with dino to 3-4k and syn to 7-8k, I would do more than twice the number of oil changes over the last 20 years, and the engine under the valve cover may looks a little nicer, but who cares ?
The engine is running okay, no unusual noise and consumes similar amount of oil at the rate of 1/2 qt per 3-4k since new.
I don't think there is a good reason for me to do twice the oil changes as oppose to what I did for the car.
Originally Posted By: FetchFar
Originally Posted By: wemay
Not knowing what the rings, pan, rods, bearings etc look like are all unkown as well. The 'real truth' here is that he has gone 257000 miles on conventional without issue. This seems to be hard for some people to just praise and not find fault with. (Not you specifically Fetchfar). Many people enjoy changing oil at 5k and have zero desire to go further, no matter if they can on syn. Its enjoyable and offers a small sense of accomplishment. I would venture to say that the peace of mind obtained by a synthetic user at 10K miles is the same feeling a conventional user gets for changing earlier, knowing there's fresh oil in the sump. Different strokes...
Take note, I'm not arguing against the abilities of synthetic oil, only that we accept it isnt the only ballgame in town.
I am castigating this chronic frequent-oil-changer. Hey, we live on the same planet and this guy wants to use twice as much oil as he needs to. I.E., use synthetic and cut your oil use in half! Waste is bad, period. I blame the industry too. Jiffy Lube wants us to come in weekly for oil changes because "we need to". right....
As other posters have correctly pointed out, he could get even cleaner with LESS oil changes with a synthetic (thats the Point here too), and I think the rings would look better too.
You make me want to change my oil twice as often as needed. Because now i'm worried about how my rings look.
Originally Posted By: wemay
Not knowing what the rings, pan, rods, bearings etc look like are all unkown as well. The 'real truth' here is that he has gone 257000 miles on conventional without issue. This seems to be hard for some people to just praise and not find fault with. (Not you specifically Fetchfar). Many people enjoy changing oil at 5k and have zero desire to go further, no matter if they can on syn. Its enjoyable and offers a small sense of accomplishment. I would venture to say that the peace of mind obtained by a synthetic user at 10K miles is the same feeling a conventional user gets for changing earlier, knowing there's fresh oil in the sump. Different strokes...
I am castigating this chronic frequent-oil-changer. Hey, we live on the same planet and this guy wants to use twice as much oil as he needs to. I.E., use synthetic and cut your oil use in half! Waste is bad, period. I blame the industry too. Jiffy Lube wants us to come in weekly for oil changes because "we need to". right....
As other posters have correctly pointed out, he could get even cleaner with LESS oil changes with a synthetic (thats the Point here too), and I think the rings would look better too.
You make me want to change my oil twice as often as needed. Because now i'm worried about how my rings look.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Do the math, Merk. If the OCI had been substantially cut or the conventional had been replaced with a synthetic (without increasing the OCI), a pile of extra money would have been spent, and the thing went 257,000 miles.
No pile of money needed here in the USA. The monetary earnings to the cost of oil per year ratio is still pretty good here. If you're racking up the miles, that means you're probably racking up the dough too. There's no reason to let an engine get varnish. The OP probably thought he was fine with a 5K OCI going by what's written on the chalkboard here everyday...
Do the math, Merk. If the OCI had been substantially cut or the conventional had been replaced with a synthetic (without increasing the OCI), a pile of extra money would have been spent, and the thing went 257,000 miles.
No pile of money needed here in the USA. The monetary earnings to the cost of oil per year ratio is still pretty good here. If you're racking up the miles, that means you're probably racking up the dough too. There's no reason to let an engine get varnish. The OP probably thought he was fine with a 5K OCI going by what's written on the chalkboard here everyday...
Not necessarily. Remember, I did the math a while ago. With the taxis, switching from the 3,000 mile severe service interval to a 6,000 mile severe service interval saved enough money to buy a new engine over the service life of the taxi.
In this case, 257,000 miles at 5,000 miles is 51 oil changes. With 3,000 mile OCIs, that's 86 oil changes. $20 for a jug of oil and a filter is not out of line in either direction. So, going from 5,000 miles to 3,000 miles would result in spending an extra $700.
$700 isn't a huge amount of money, realistically speaking, but that money hasn't been spent on oil and filters, and the vehicle has gone 257,000 miles already, which is nothing to sneeze at. If the vehicle were sludged up 157,000 miles ago, yes, I'd agree with your point. And I don't like varnish, either. But, what would spending that extra $700 on oil and filters really have accomplished?
In this case, 257,000 miles at 5,000 miles is 51 oil changes. With 3,000 mile OCIs, that's 86 oil changes. $20 for a jug of oil and a filter is not out of line in either direction. So, going from 5,000 miles to 3,000 miles would result in spending an extra $700.
$700 isn't a huge amount of money, realistically speaking, but that money hasn't been spent on oil and filters, and the vehicle has gone 257,000 miles already, which is nothing to sneeze at. If the vehicle were sludged up 157,000 miles ago, yes, I'd agree with your point. And I don't like varnish, either. But, what would spending that extra $700 on oil and filters really have accomplished?
I'm gonna go ahead and do the math since you asked me to:
MS5K at Walmart: $14.77 + 8.25% tax = $15.99
ACDelco oil filter from Autozone: $4.19 + 8.25% tax = $4.54
Total per OCI = $20.53
OCI: 2000 miles
Vehicle Mileage: 257,000
257,000 divided by 2000 miles = 128.5 oil changes X $20.53 = $2638.105
That's cheap for a varnish free engine.
MS5K at Walmart: $14.77 + 8.25% tax = $15.99
ACDelco oil filter from Autozone: $4.19 + 8.25% tax = $4.54
Total per OCI = $20.53
OCI: 2000 miles
Vehicle Mileage: 257,000
257,000 divided by 2000 miles = 128.5 oil changes X $20.53 = $2638.105
That's cheap for a varnish free engine.
Merk, with the difference between the 2000 mile OCI and the 5000 mile OCI, I could buy an awful lot of engine components, which was rarely necessary with the taxis anyhow (and that was a 6000 mile OCI). Your 2000 mile OCI costs $1582.86 more over the 257000 miles than would the 5000 mile OCI. For tig1's sake, a 10000 mile OCI with a synthetic (calling the price double) would only have cost around $1000 over the 257000 miles.
If nothing else, the OP has shown that neither synthetic oil nor short drain intervals are required to keep an engine clean or to reduce wear.
Some of the posters above like to point to the very light varnish as a problem, but I can't see that it is.
Some of the posters above also like to bring up the rings, but we have no indication that the rings are stuck in this engine.
I suspect that regular use plays as great a role in keeping the rings free as does the oil used. With 257K in eleven years, this thing certainly sees regular use.
Any way you look at it, the OP has maintained this engine well and it has rewarded him with a quarter million miles of service and is still going strong.
The more time I spend here, the less convinced I become that synthetics offer any practical advantage in most applications.
Some of the posters above like to point to the very light varnish as a problem, but I can't see that it is.
Some of the posters above also like to bring up the rings, but we have no indication that the rings are stuck in this engine.
I suspect that regular use plays as great a role in keeping the rings free as does the oil used. With 257K in eleven years, this thing certainly sees regular use.
Any way you look at it, the OP has maintained this engine well and it has rewarded him with a quarter million miles of service and is still going strong.
The more time I spend here, the less convinced I become that synthetics offer any practical advantage in most applications.
Just a few other maintenance details for this vehicle...
-I changed the differential and transfer case oils every 50k (Valvoline Durablend 80W90)
-I changed the manual transmission fluid every 50k (Redline MT90)
-I changed the coolant approx. every 60k (Toyota Red & distilled H20)
-I replaced spark plugs approx. every 90k (Denso Iridium)
Other than the routine maintenance items such as tires, brakes, belts and filters... the only parts I had to buy for this vehicle were 1) a power door lock actuator at about 150k, and a single o2 sensor at about 240k. Every other part is the same one that drove off the dealer lot in 2003.
-I changed the differential and transfer case oils every 50k (Valvoline Durablend 80W90)
-I changed the manual transmission fluid every 50k (Redline MT90)
-I changed the coolant approx. every 60k (Toyota Red & distilled H20)
-I replaced spark plugs approx. every 90k (Denso Iridium)
Other than the routine maintenance items such as tires, brakes, belts and filters... the only parts I had to buy for this vehicle were 1) a power door lock actuator at about 150k, and a single o2 sensor at about 240k. Every other part is the same one that drove off the dealer lot in 2003.
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
I'm gonna go ahead and do the math since you asked me to:
MS5K at Walmart: $14.77 + 8.25% tax = $15.99
ACDelco oil filter from Autozone: $4.19 + 8.25% tax = $4.54
Total per OCI = $20.53
OCI: 2000 miles
Vehicle Mileage: 257,000
257,000 divided by 2000 miles = 128.5 oil changes X $20.53 = $2638.105
That's cheap for a varnish free engine.
Who buys their oil at Wal-Mart and then goes to Autozone and buys a filter?
I'm gonna go ahead and do the math since you asked me to:
MS5K at Walmart: $14.77 + 8.25% tax = $15.99
ACDelco oil filter from Autozone: $4.19 + 8.25% tax = $4.54
Total per OCI = $20.53
OCI: 2000 miles
Vehicle Mileage: 257,000
257,000 divided by 2000 miles = 128.5 oil changes X $20.53 = $2638.105
That's cheap for a varnish free engine.
Who buys their oil at Wal-Mart and then goes to Autozone and buys a filter?
Originally Posted By: bvance554
Originally Posted By: FetchFar
Originally Posted By: wemay
Not knowing what the rings, pan, rods, bearings etc look like are all unkown as well. The 'real truth' here is that he has gone 257000 miles on conventional without issue. This seems to be hard for some people to just praise and not find fault with. (Not you specifically Fetchfar). Many people enjoy changing oil at 5k and have zero desire to go further, no matter if they can on syn. Its enjoyable and offers a small sense of accomplishment. I would venture to say that the peace of mind obtained by a synthetic user at 10K miles is the same feeling a conventional user gets for changing earlier, knowing there's fresh oil in the sump. Different strokes...
Take note, I'm not arguing against the abilities of synthetic oil, only that we accept it isnt the only ballgame in town.
I am castigating this chronic frequent-oil-changer. Hey, we live on the same planet and this guy wants to use twice as much oil as he needs to. I.E., use synthetic and cut your oil use in half! Waste is bad, period. I blame the industry too. Jiffy Lube wants us to come in weekly for oil changes because "we need to". right....
As other posters have correctly pointed out, he could get even cleaner with LESS oil changes with a synthetic (thats the Point here too), and I think the rings would look better too.
You make me want to change my oil twice as often as needed. Because now i'm worried about how my rings look.
He makes me want to change the oil on all my cars every week just to [censored] him off more. Castigating someone over changing their oil PER THE OWNERS MANUAL recommended interval? And then pulling out all the [censored] non sense of woulda shoulda coulda using synthetic oil, cleaner ring packs, bla bla bla?
We have undeniable proof that just maintaining your vehicle with name brand conventional oil will leave it practically spotless with no measurable camshaft wear and people still want to one up each other.
Originally Posted By: FetchFar
Originally Posted By: wemay
Not knowing what the rings, pan, rods, bearings etc look like are all unkown as well. The 'real truth' here is that he has gone 257000 miles on conventional without issue. This seems to be hard for some people to just praise and not find fault with. (Not you specifically Fetchfar). Many people enjoy changing oil at 5k and have zero desire to go further, no matter if they can on syn. Its enjoyable and offers a small sense of accomplishment. I would venture to say that the peace of mind obtained by a synthetic user at 10K miles is the same feeling a conventional user gets for changing earlier, knowing there's fresh oil in the sump. Different strokes...
I am castigating this chronic frequent-oil-changer. Hey, we live on the same planet and this guy wants to use twice as much oil as he needs to. I.E., use synthetic and cut your oil use in half! Waste is bad, period. I blame the industry too. Jiffy Lube wants us to come in weekly for oil changes because "we need to". right....
As other posters have correctly pointed out, he could get even cleaner with LESS oil changes with a synthetic (thats the Point here too), and I think the rings would look better too.
You make me want to change my oil twice as often as needed. Because now i'm worried about how my rings look.
He makes me want to change the oil on all my cars every week just to [censored] him off more. Castigating someone over changing their oil PER THE OWNERS MANUAL recommended interval? And then pulling out all the [censored] non sense of woulda shoulda coulda using synthetic oil, cleaner ring packs, bla bla bla?
We have undeniable proof that just maintaining your vehicle with name brand conventional oil will leave it practically spotless with no measurable camshaft wear and people still want to one up each other.
+1 to what fdcg27 said.
Also: I'm seeing that cyclical runs of armchair mechs and speculations about mechanical issues related to running conventional oil in modern utilitarian automotive engines....fact is, most don't even know what they are talking about.
with modern oil filtration, engine designs and construction, conventional motor oil with conservative runs (5k OCI, not those OCD types of
modern engine oil protects just as good as those so-called "full-syn" oil in a utilitarian, mass-produced gasoline IC engines. "full-syn" only makes your wallet lighter and gives a big man the extra bragging rights among friends/on the internet.
...or is it a small man with big ego/bragging rights ...or is it the other way round?
*smiles*
Q.
Also: I'm seeing that cyclical runs of armchair mechs and speculations about mechanical issues related to running conventional oil in modern utilitarian automotive engines....fact is, most don't even know what they are talking about.
with modern oil filtration, engine designs and construction, conventional motor oil with conservative runs (5k OCI, not those OCD types of
modern engine oil protects just as good as those so-called "full-syn" oil in a utilitarian, mass-produced gasoline IC engines. "full-syn" only makes your wallet lighter and gives a big man the extra bragging rights among friends/on the internet.
...or is it a small man with big ego/bragging rights ...or is it the other way round?
*smiles*
Q.
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