210,000 miles with K&N air intake system

[ctechbob]

So if a K&N relies on vibration in the intake tract to filter properly, then why do they recommend them for everything (turbo cars and cars with long intake tracts). So other words, they don't really give a toss as to what they sell them for. If you don't have a vibrating intake charge you're just SOL with big holes in your filter?

 

[billt460]

I think overall K&N makes a good, reliable filter. If there were any serious issues with them, we would have heard about it long ago. My problem with them is as I stated.

They're a PITA to service, and could possibly interfere with a warranty. It's easier and much faster to swap out a paper pleated filter, than it is to wash, rinse clean, then wait for it to dry, then oil and reinstall a K&N filter.

 

[TiGeo]

Not permitted content on BITOG. In before...opps....too late...

 

[TiGeo]

For your viewing pleasure.

 

[TiGeo]

A CAI is fine on a naturally aspirated vehicle but I would not use one on a turbo engine. I had an AFE on my Cummins Ram and with the air velocity and volume it actually sucked the oil out of the filter. I took it off and sold it after about 30k miles and put the OEM setup back in. I’ve used Mopar of Fleetguard filters since with no trouble.

Just my $0.02

My small turbo engine has never "sucked the oil off" a K&N. I think you have to look at the size and type of engine before making that comment.

 

[TiGeo]

It's rumored that the K&N oil in the filter element can fly off (over time) and contaminate the thin resistor wire inside the MAF sensor.

Some interesting videos from K&N on this.

 

[TiGeo]

Can you link me to the forum where the guy with the Hellcat said he lost the court battle? I just want have that when I post to a Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act absolutist that there are going to be times you will loss.

Those folks are so funny

Ready to March into the dealer yelling "MAG MOSS BRO" with their heavily modded car. They have no idea that aftermarket performance parts have nothing to do with this regulation...that it was just so you did not have to buy parts/service your car at the dealer and that orange Fram oil filter wouldn't impact your warranty.

 

[Capt W]

This week I was at my local Toyota dealership getting a tire rotation on my Tundra

I'm actually more interested in why you'd pay someone to do a tire rotation - especially a dealer.

 

[TiGeo]

I'm actually more interested in why you'd pay someone to do a tire rotation - especially a dealer.

This should be pretty easy to understand - not everyone has the area/gear or desire to do this especially on a full-size truck. Dealer rates for this kind of thing aren't any different than anywhere else in my experience.

 

[Capt W]

Was just curious as the OP has performed a lot of quality and in-depth work on his own...and/or I'm just incredibly cheap

 

[TiGeo]

While there is nothing "wrong" with a K&N air filter system. That said, I stopped using K&N Air Filters because they're a PITA and messy to clean and reoil. It's much easier to toss a dirty paper filter, and replace it with another.

Also, there is the question of being denied warranty work if you have one. This happened to a guy on one the Hellcat / Demon forums. He had a Hellcat that he replaced the air intake with a "K&N Intake System".

He had some major internal engine problems, and his warranty was denied because the dealer said he, "altered the vehicle". He took it to court and lost, and ended up being on the hook for thousands of dollars. Just be careful installing these things on vehicles still under factory warranty.

If you run an aftermarket intake and are a warranty-worrier, it's so easy to just remove it/replace the factory one if you need to visit the dealer for warranty work that could in any way be pegged on the intake. Some dealers are just so crappy about this kind of thing when there is no reason that intake had anything to do with the issue. Further, many OEs offer warranty-friendly mods like this i.e. Mopar, Ford, etc. for their performance vehicles. Just something to check with your dealer about. If you are buying a car that comes with a drag pack, I'd say the dealer is way out of line giving someone a hard time about an intake

 

[billt460]

........ I'd say the dealer is way out of line giving someone a hard time about an intake

I would agree. However that won't stop them from doing it.

 

[TiGeo]

I would agree. However that won't stop them from doing it.

Sure - happens all the time and part of the risk of modding your vehicle. You just have to source a dealer that doesn't get hung up on this trival stuff.

 

[VolvoZ]

No, they get destroyed pretty quickly, seals leak, oil consumption rises, compression drops. Even a holed filter will cause damage in short order.

Depends on operating conditions. Any experience or data to back that up? Is “destroyed pretty quickly” 10K miles? 30K miles? When i say the vehicle will operate “OK”, i meant : “mediocre, but still operational”. I think we’re in agreement for the most part.

Anecdote 1: My daughter bought her ‘08 XC70 used and the air filter was not properly installed by previous owner, leaving a significant gap thru which unfiltered air was being pulled. This vehicle was clearly operated on New England dirt roads for part of its life and i would guess it was run that way for 20K miles at a minimum. Car runs fine (with well over 210K miles), no leaks, no oil consumption.

Anecdote 2: I bought an ‘89 Mustang GT with a bit over 100K miles that had a K&N installed by the previous owner. Impeccably cared for otherwise. One look at the “see thru” K&N, and i determined quickly that it had to go in the trash. Vehicle was operated in Chesapeake VA area, so a relatively clean area for operating a vehicle (no significant road salting/sanding)/clean roads. Fantastic power, so i doubt the compression was impacted, but the car drank oil pretty quick, probably past the valve seals.

 

[ZeeOSix]

So if a K&N relies on vibration in the intake tract to filter properly, then why do they recommend them for everything (turbo cars and cars with long intake tracts). So other words, they don't really give a toss as to what they sell them for. If you don't have a vibrating intake charge you're just SOL with big holes in your filter?

Guess I missed it ... but where does K&N recommend vibration of the intake tract to make their filters work better. I'd like to see the physics behind that, along with the cow magnets on the gas line, lol.

 

[ctechbob]

Guess I missed it ... but where does K&N recommend vibration of the intake tract to make their filters work better. I'd like to see the physics behind that, along with the cow magnets on the gas line, lol.

That's what ol buddy is describing in the video. Said that steady state air will pass more particulate, but due to the vibrations in the intake tract, that's how the K&N was designed to work to catch more.



Linked at the specific spot he says it.

Following that logic, they would work great on a single-cylinder engine, and more and more crappy as the cylinder count increases.

 

[ZeeOSix]

That's what ol buddy is describing in the video. Said that steady state air will pass more particulate, but due to the vibrations in the intake tract, that's how the K&N was designed to work to catch more.

Guess adding a "tornado" air swilling device in the intake tract would help then, lol.

 

[ctechbob]

Guess adding a "tornado" air swilling device in the intake tract would help then, lol.

Nahh, its got to vibrate!!

Just like the hairs in our lungs.....which isn't even close to being the same.

I'm sure that old dude has some respectable work under his belt, but I'm not on board with the vibrating filter malarkey. Especially when he says (paraphrasing) 'sure it has big holes in the filter medium, but when its vibrating, it catches the dirt that would otherwise go through'

Ok, but what about those particles that are lined up just right to skip right on through your vibrating media forcefield?

 

[Jetronic]

Depends on operating conditions. Any experience or data to back that up? Is “destroyed pretty quickly” 10K miles? 30K miles? When i say the vehicle will operate “OK”, i meant : “mediocre, but still operational”. I think we’re in agreement for the most part.

Anecdote 1: My daughter bought her ‘08 XC70 used and the air filter was not properly installed by previous owner, leaving a significant gap thru which unfiltered air was being pulled. This vehicle was clearly operated on New England dirt roads for part of its life and i would guess it was run that way for 20K miles at a minimum. Car runs fine (with well over 210K miles), no leaks, no oil consumption.

Anecdote 2: I bought an ‘89 Mustang GT with a bit over 100K miles that had a K&N installed by the previous owner. Impeccably cared for otherwise. One look at the “see thru” K&N, and i determined quickly that it had to go in the trash. Vehicle was operated in Chesapeake VA area, so a relatively clean area for operating a vehicle (no significant road salting/sanding)/clean roads. Fantastic power, so i doubt the compression was impacted, but the car drank oil pretty quick, probably past the valve seals.

within 1 oci they tend to have issues without air filter. My experience as a mechanic for 20 years.

 

[1 SX]

I absolutely love my K&N DRYFLOW intake.. it makes some sounds. I don't buy into the "gain 7.9 HP" ect. I bought it strictly for sound and the 30 to 50,000 mile air filter cleanings.. The filter is not see through like some of the panel / oiled ones are. I plan to do a uoa just for piece of mind that the filter is filtering lol."If" results are not favorable to bad.. off it comes.

First hand experience with dry flow air intakes is I will not have any issues. in 2009 my buddy and I installed a cold air intake on a honda 3.5L... 13 plus years and 180,000 miles on said cold air intake later.. the engine has zero oil consumption and great compression..