210,000 miles with K&N air intake system

[TiGeo]

So here's my wife's Atlas. 55K miles. K&N in at 5K so 50K on it/6 years this month. First time cleaning it and TBH, don't need to. There is no fine dirt or oily residue in the intake tube. The MAF isn't fouled with oil. UOAs that I have done show normal SiO2. These photos have been my experience with K&N air filters for the last ~25 years.

Clean air side:

Outside:

Air hose:

 

[TiGeo]

I think what most people are missing when comparing anecdotes is that the ambient dust concentration in the air has a much greater effect on how much dust an engine ingests than the choice of air filter does.

There was a study done in Arizona that showed that 1,000 km of typical driving on unpaved roads resulted in the same amount of dust ingestion as 375,000 km of paved road driving. In the paved road scenario, any air filter would be fine. A pair of pantyhose would probably do an acceptable job. In really dusty conditions, filtration efficiency really matters. Offroading forums are littered with examples of dusted engines caused by poor air filtration.

And I agree with you. I don't live where it's dusty and if I did, I'd be interested to see how well these did. My understanding is that they did well b/c they allowed more air flow for racing motorcycles off road while still keeping the dust out (purpose of oil) vs. paper that would clog quickly and choke the engine...but yes, for day-to-day use in v. dusty conditions, may not be best. But like oil discussions here, everyone seems to think we all need to deal with the worst case scenarios...thickest oil, highest cost/most boutique oils, most efficient oil filters, most frequent changes, and so on when in-fact I'd wager that the majority of users here have no need for that level of maintenance or products.

 

[wemay]

The comment should go like this but never does:

"If you'd like to sacrifice some filtration efficiency for flow, K&Ns work great. If not/daily driving/not into the performance thing, paper filters are the easy choice."

And it needn't even be for the track. I can't tell you the last time i went tracking (back when i owned a Mini Cooper S and the EVO8). K&N's filter great for me; UOAs showing same Si values as my paper filters. I just like the brand, trust their product is quality and have had great results. I even enjoy cleaning and reoiling them every few years.

 

[TiGeo]

And it needn't even be for the track. I can't tell you the last time i went tracking (back when i owned a Mini Cooper S and the EVO8). K&N's filter great for me; UOAs showing same Si values as my paper filters. I just like the brand, trust their product is quality and have had great results. I even enjoy cleaning and reoiling them every few years.

Same. One and done. So figure lifetime filter for about $50. A can of oil but I split mine between 6 vehicles. Some Purple Power or Simple Green you use around the house already. Clean 1/~2-5 years. It's a winer in my book and always has been. The cleaning process is just a few hours, mine is on the fan now and will re-oil after dinner so 3 hours total but only about 30 min of that let's say doing the work. If I was smart, I would have kept the OEM filter in her Atlas so I could toss it in while I do it. But hey, if folks like paper filters, cool. They are a cheap throw-away option once every few years that provide the most filtration/OEM-proven. Her paper replacement filter is $25-30 at Walmart, just looked it up. So figure I'm even with the house now if I had changed it 3x over the last 6 years per VW's schedule assuming some cost for cleaning/re-oiling supplies so now I'll save all that money so I can buy some lotto tickets and Coors Light ahahhaha

 

[ZeeOSix]

I think what most people are missing when comparing anecdotes is that the ambient dust concentration in the air has a much greater effect on how much dust an engine ingests than the choice of air filter does.

There was a study done in Arizona that showed that 1,000 km of typical driving on unpaved roads resulted in the same amount of dust ingestion as 375,000 km of paved road driving. In the paved road scenario, any air filter would be fine. A pair of pantyhose would probably do an acceptable job. In really dusty conditions, filtration efficiency really matters. Offroading forums are littered with examples of dusted engines caused by poor air filtration.

Most racers that use K&N filters in hard core use (like Baja 500, etc) will also have some kind of foam type pre-filter over the K&N. They also use very large air filters to help prevent clogging and restriction.

 

[oil pan 4]

I believe the term "rock catcher" goes against BITOG's rules for this sub-forum. I'll thank you in advance for ceasing to use it.

Still waiting on the "worn rings and tapered cylinders" on any vehicle I've owned that I run these in (all of them). BITOG fear-mongering level 11 unlocked.

I have used the term "rock catcher" more than I used punctuation and this is the first I have heard of it.
They're clearly better than nothing iso5011 says they stop around 97%, although I'll admit I have never seen an iso5011 test ran with nothing as a control.
They only let through about 3 times more dirt than cheap but decent paper air filter.

All rings wear and all cylinders taper, it's just a matter or run time.

 

[TiGeo]

I have used the term "rock catcher" more than I used punctuation and this is the first I have heard of it.
They're clearly better than nothing iso5011 says they stop around 97%, although I'll admit I have never seen an iso5011 test ran with nothing as a control.
They only let through about 3 times more dirt than cheap but decent paper air filter.

All rings wear and all cylinders taper, it's just a matter or run time.

Classic. It's been removed from the filter forum rules in the oil filter sub recently (Oct 2023)...used to be there along with "orange can of death" etc. The mods must not like K&N ahahah b/c I swear it was there when I read a while back b/c I remember it distinctly and laughing about the need for a rules for a sub forum like this.

3x the amount of dirt when there isn't any to start with is effectively...zero more dirt....

 

[TiGeo]

Here's my MAF on the Atlas, looks brand new/clean after 6 years/50K with a K&N...the amount of flow to remove a viscous oil from the filter is not within the range that your intake operates in....K&N has some great testing/video on it.

 

[cptbarkey]

Ahem, Tigeo AI has been very busy in this thread.

I think the PF air filter tests while are not lab quality, they are quite a bit above his mojo oil tests.

K&N filters have their place, but won’t get a red cent from me based on its concept, plain and simple.

 

[cptbarkey]

They are worthless, overloading a filter by dumping a bunch of powder directly on it isn't how your car's intake works. It's ok that you like the oil ice luge showdown he does....you can tell us...you're in the AI..er...trust circle here..haha

Hmm, 30 minutes turning 4 yards of hay with horse poo (compost) is pretty close dust wise during Texas summers.

 

[LubeDaddy]

Those Toyota 5.7s are amazing.

 

[oil pan 4]

Classic. His test, like the oil tests, is for show/entertainment only/is worthless on how these products perform in your car. So....BITOG BE LIKE....

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The way project farm tests air filters seems very relevant.
Constant speed dirt accumulation like say how I drive 80% of my miles on the highway then occasionally floor it to pass some slow poke or merge on the highway. Truck collects dirt at around 100cfm or less then occasionally needs nearly 400cfm.
The surge test where the k&n let a bunch of dirt and the paper filters didn't seems relevant.

What happens to oil at cold temperature some how seems relevant, probably want to avoid the ones that are so thick they haven't even started the race and the other oils are finished if it gets cold where you live.
What happens to cold oil after it's been cooked for a bit seems relevant.
For me it's 110f in the summer and -10f in the winter. In my truck I'll change the oil once a year or less so what happens to baked oil, kinda relevant for me.
All I have to do is avoid the baked ones that wouldn't move in the cold.

The only thing remotely like his wear scar test in an engine is the contact between a flat tappet lifter and cam, yeah only 90s cars and trucks and small engines run flat tappets. Doesn't apply to most engines these days. Even my 1984 big block Chevy has a roller cam after I rebuilt it.

I have a filter minder installed on my pickup and with about 3,000 miles on the air filter it has yet to trip the 10'' h2o resistance indicator. Whatever I'm giving up to run a better paper air filter isn't even costing me 10'' of h2o at 5,000rpm which I'm sure my truck spends less than 0.1% of it's run time even above 4,000rpm.
So the benefits of more air less than 1% of the time aren't worth up to 10x more dirt going into the engine all the time.

 

[oil pan 4]

Hmm, 30 minutes turning 4 yards of hay with horse poo (compost) is pretty close dust wise during Texas summers.

Or driving in dust storm in New Mexico or west Texas.
Them grocery getter city girl pickups sure do have it easy.

 

[oil pan 4]

They are worthless, overloading a filter by dumping a bunch of powder directly on it isn't how your car's intake works. It's ok that you like the oil ice luge showdown he does....you can tell us...you're in the AI..er...trust circle here..haha

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I run a k&n go-kart velocity stack on my gx390 pressure washer. I killed the old pump put a bigger one on and needed more power as it runs 4,000rpm and wide open throttle, where the k&n actually has an advantage over the stock paper setup.
But it runs in a low dust environment, it sits on concrete and I keep a bag over the air filter when it's not running so it doesn't collect dust and I don't use it during dust storms as that would be counter productive to using a pressure washer.

 

[cptbarkey]

Or driving in dust storm in New Mexico or west Texas.
Them grocery getter city girl pickups sure do have it easy.

Had the pleasure of a haboob outside Lubbock, it was terrifying.

 

[oil pan 4]

Had the pleasure of a haboob outside Lubbock, it was terrifying.

I love haboobs except when it's all dirt.

 

[TiGeo]

Ok all clean and re-oiled. Good for 50 more K/5 years.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Ahem, Tigeo AI has been very busy in this thread.

... I don't think so, the sentence structure is too loose to meet AI standards.

 

[wemay]

2023 Sonata 2.5

 

[TiGeo]

2023 Sonata 2.5
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May as well trade it in now man.....this will be a quick death for sure.