2025 Toyota Camry - All Hybrid

I have no ill will toward Toyota. If they sell they sell. Capitalism is what it is. I just have concerns about the entire car market constantly moving UP in price. And not slowly might I add with base affordable vehicles literally being eliminated.
The entire car market is moving UP in price mostly due to the government setting stricter and stricter gas mileage and safety regulations. Not only are we paying for this at the new car level, but during ownership also. Just as an example,, a minor front end fender bender nowadays requires your forward looking safety system to be recalibrated to the tune of $600-$1000. IMO bureaucracies is way out of control. Not to mention the technology going into cars nowadays makes them very hard for the common man to diagnose and fix., hence the need to bring it in and pay thru the nose. While the affluent can afford this, the poor are the most affected.
 
Last edited:
The entire car market is moving UP in price mostly due to the government setting stricter and stricter gas mileage and safety regulations. Not only are we paying for this at the new car level, but during ownership also. Just as an example,, a minor front end fender bender nowadays requires your forward looking safety system to be recalibrated to the tune of $600-$1000. IMO bureaucracies is way out of control.
Yes, items that were either non-existent or optional are now mandated or standard equipment. It's also true that a number of purchasers want additional expensive, and expensive to repair, items on their vehicles. So, it's not just the government(s) requiring additional safety features, but individuals want, and sometimes demand, them.

I recall driving an early Prius that had a screen and backup camera. I was quite excited about the technology and thought it would be nice to have in a future car purchase. I saw no need, nor did I have a desire, for anything more. Now it's about 20 years later and I'm desirous of a blind spot monitoring system, a feature that alerts me to oncoming traffic when backing out of parking spaces, an emergency braking system, and possibly adaptive cruise control. What's changed?

Well, my reflexes are quite a bit slower, my upper body's range of motion is not as great, and there are more SUVs and pickup trucks blocking my vision when backing out of parking spaces. So, my physical condition has deteriorated somewhat with age and the environment in which I drive has changed, and become more challenging, as well.

Overall, more people seem to want more safety and comfort features. How many people prefer manual, roll-up windows these days? Who now buys a car without air conditioning? How many new cars are sold with only manual keys to lock-unlock the doors and trunk, and I'm not even talking about the push button starting of the engine. Can you even buy a car these days without power-operated outside rear-view mirrors? Even if possible, I'd not want them. Think of the features you'd want in your new car. Were they even available X-number of years ago?
 
Yes, items that were either non-existent or optional are now mandated or standard equipment. It's also true that a number of purchasers want additional expensive, and expensive to repair, items on their vehicles. So, it's not just the government(s) requiring additional safety features, but individuals want, and sometimes demand, them.

I recall driving an early Prius that had a screen and backup camera. I was quite excited about the technology and thought it would be nice to have in a future car purchase. I saw no need, nor did I have a desire, for anything more. Now it's about 20 years later and I'm desirous of a blind spot monitoring system, a feature that alerts me to oncoming traffic when backing out of parking spaces, an emergency braking system, and possibly adaptive cruise control. What's changed?

Well, my reflexes are quite a bit slower, my upper body's range of motion is not as great, and there are more SUVs and pickup trucks blocking my vision when backing out of parking spaces. So, my physical condition has deteriorated somewhat with age and the environment in which I drive has changed, and become more challenging, as well.

Overall, more people seem to want more safety and comfort features. How many people prefer manual, roll-up windows these days? Who now buys a car without air conditioning? How many new cars are sold with only manual keys to lock-unlock the doors and trunk, and I'm not even talking about the push button starting of the engine. Can you even buy a car these days without power-operated outside rear-view mirrors? Even if possible, I'd not want them. Think of the features you'd want in your new car. Were they even available X-number of years ago?
No doubt a lot of people want safety features in their cars. If you want that, you should be able to but that. More power to you. I am all for people being able to but whatever they want, and whatever they can afford without interference.

On the other hand, there are probably just as many poor people who would love to buy a new car if they could afford it. Recall that 10k basic transportation truck Toyota recently unveiled? If they could bring it to the states, it would sell like HOTCAKES. But they can't because if wouldn't pass a whole slew of government mandates. I guarantee a whole lot of low income earners would prefer to buy something stripped down, new, and reliable like that truck instead of buying a 15 yr old vehicle with 180k on the odometer because that's all they can afford.

If you have the means and freedom to buy a vehicle loaded up with as many features as you want, shouldn't it also be important for someone to have the freedom to buy a vehicle with as little features as he wants and can afford without a government mandating what he buy?
 
Last edited:
I quoted the link, get some glasses bro.
Honda’s two-motor hybrid system can operate as either a series or parallel hybrid. The majority of the time, the system operates as a series hybrid. Its electric propulsion motor drives the wheels directly, while the gasoline engine connected to the electric generator/starter motor functions as an electrical generator, supplying power to the hybrid battery and/or the propulsion motor. Under certain driving conditions, such as steady-state cruising at highway speeds, the system switches seamlessly to parallel hybrid operation, with the gasoline engine connecting to the front axle via a clutch, and vehicle speed is proportional to engine speed (rpm).

Above is a more relevant quote from what Honda's people wrote.
I think we all understand the term "parallel hybrid" to mean something other than what you expressed.
From what was written in the piece you linked, it does appear that the electric propulsion motor does provide drive under all circumstances.
 
If I were in the market, I'd buy a 2024 naturally aspirated 2.5L, no auto start/stop, 8 speed auto transmission Camry.

But I won't be in the market as long as they're selling for MSRP and above.
You can easily get a non-hybrid Camry for $2k below msrp. I just did with an LE: $27,500 with some packs like Toyota Platinum Care, financed through Toyota, etc. Just get on Autotrader and check your area. I agree with your thinking--in my view the 2024 Camry it's the last reliable, full size sedan that will do 250K miles with no major repairs. In my area they don't discount hybrid Camrys, so really you'd be paying $4K more for one. Add $4k to replace the battery pack after 10 years. The increased mpg of the hybrid does not make up for $8K in extra costs.
 
You can easily get a non-hybrid Camry for $2k below msrp. I just did with an LE: $27,500 with some packs like Toyota Platinum Care, financed through Toyota, etc. Just get on Autotrader and check your area. I agree with your thinking--in my view the 2024 Camry it's the last reliable, full size sedan that will do 250K miles with no major repairs. In my area they don't discount hybrid Camrys, so really you'd be paying $4K more for one. Add $4k to replace the battery pack after 10 years. The increased mpg of the hybrid does not make up for $8K in extra costs, not even in an area with very high gas prices.
 
You can easily get a non-hybrid Camry for $2k below msrp. I just did with an LE: $27,500 with some packs like Toyota Platinum Care, financed through Toyota, etc. Just get on Autotrader and check your area. I agree with your thinking--in my view the 2024 Camry it's the last reliable, full size sedan that will do 250K miles with no major repairs. In my area they don't discount hybrid Camrys, so really you'd be paying $4K more for one. Add $4k to replace the battery pack after 10 years. The increased mpg of the hybrid does not make up for $8K in extra costs.
Does it still run without the battery?
 
You can easily get a non-hybrid Camry for $2k below msrp. I just did with an LE: $27,500 with some packs like Toyota Platinum Care, financed through Toyota, etc. Just get on Autotrader and check your area. I agree with your thinking--in my view the 2024 Camry it's the last reliable, full size sedan that will do 250K miles with no major repairs. In my area they don't discount hybrid Camrys, so really you'd be paying $4K more for one. Add $4k to replace the battery pack after 10 years. The increased mpg of the hybrid does not make up for $8K in extra costs.
Toyota hybrids have no problem getting to high miles without high repairs. This isn’t 2003. And it has a 10 year hybrid battery warranty.

In 250k miles a hybrid Camry will have consumed 3,000 less gallons in gas over a standard one, if gas were to somehow stay $3.50 per gallon over the next 16 years that it takes to accumulate 250k miles, that’s $10,500 saved. Which easily replaces the hybrid battery.
 
In 250k miles a hybrid Camry will have consumed 3,000 less gallons in gas over a standard one, if gas were to somehow stay $3.50 per gallon over the next 16 years that it takes to accumulate 250k miles, that’s $10,500 saved. Which easily replaces the hybrid battery.
What's the conventional wisdom around here? an automatic trans is good for 150k, then all bets off? yeah, most last longer, but some don't, and a rebuild/reman/R&R isn't free either. A Toyota eCVT is about the last thing that will ever wear out in one of these, it's got like 7 moving parts (might not be exact, but it's way less than the conventional CVT in my Corolla!).
 
I forgot about the higher insurance costs too. I paid roughly an extra $500/year for my accord hybrid
 
I forgot about the higher insurance costs too. I paid roughly an extra $500/year for my accord hybrid
Is it worse? I never looked into it.

Get this: my wife got the Camry hybrid 2 years ago; I got the same year Corolla this past summer. Guess who pays more? yep, my Corolla is $500 more per year!!!! was not expecting that, and might not have bought it, had I known (every google search I did prior did not indicate this, all indicated that it was "cheap" and about the same as the Camry--nope!).

[I get royally bad insurance on my cars--but I have two teen drivers, 2 newish cars and 2 old cars.]

What used to be funny was that my Tundra was slightly less on insurance than our prior non-hybrid Camry... insurance rates are set by payouts per model and insured person risk. Apparently Camry drivers are worse than Tundra drivers, who knew...
 
Between the postman hitting my Mazda and the switch to all hybrid, it’s like God is telling me now is the time to buy a 2024 base model Camry.
As one of the resident Toyota fanbois... must... resist... encouraging... comments...

Personally I like our Camry hybrid, WS fluid isn't cheap but the trans has no frictions for me to worry about. The CVT fluid in my Corolla isn't cheap (Toyota dealer = $100+ for 4L, so I bought off Rock for $8 per quart). Not sure what the 8AT in the Camry conventional requires?
 
As one of the resident Toyota fanbois... must... resist... encouraging... comments...

Personally I like our Camry hybrid, WS fluid isn't cheap but the trans has no frictions for me to worry about. The CVT fluid in my Corolla isn't cheap (Toyota dealer = $100+ for 4L, so I bought off Rock for $8 per quart). Not sure what the 8AT in the Camry conventional requires?
WS
 
Is it worse? I never looked into it.

Get this: my wife got the Camry hybrid 2 years ago; I got the same year Corolla this past summer. Guess who pays more? yep, my Corolla is $500 more per year!!!! was not expecting that, and might not have bought it, had I known (every google search I did prior did not indicate this, all indicated that it was "cheap" and about the same as the Camry--nope!).

[I get royally bad insurance on my cars--but I have two teen drivers, 2 newish cars and 2 old cars.]

What used to be funny was that my Tundra was slightly less on insurance than our prior non-hybrid Camry... insurance rates are set by payouts per model and insured person risk. Apparently Camry drivers are worse than Tundra drivers, who knew...
I guess it depends on location and personal driving history. I'm in the Atlanta area, and was paying about $1100/year for full coverage on my $47K 4Runner. When I replaced it with the Accord Hybrid (a $31K car), I was paying about $4-500 more/year. My broker told me the costs are higher because of the batteries--in an accident they often have to replace the batteries even if there is no sign of damage, as it's a potential fire hazard if they don't. The hybrids and electrics also get "totaled" more often by the insurance companies for the same reason.
 
Toyota hybrids have no problem getting to high miles without high repairs. This isn’t 2003. And it has a 10 year hybrid battery warranty.

In 250k miles a hybrid Camry will have consumed 3,000 less gallons in gas over a standard one, if gas were to somehow stay $3.50 per gallon over the next 16 years that it takes to accumulate 250k miles, that’s $10,500 saved. Which easily replaces the hybrid battery.
Your calculations are way off. A regulary Camry gets 40 mpg on the highway, and a hybrid about 50 mpg. That's only 1,250 more gallons over 250K miles. At $3/gallon (cost in my area), you save $3,750. Nowhere near the extra $10K plus you will spend on the hybrid factoring in the higher initial price, battery replacement, and higher insurance costs.
 
Your calculations are way off. A regulary Camry gets 40 mpg on the highway, and a hybrid about 50 mpg. That's only 1,250 more gallons over 250K miles. At $3/gallon (cost in my area), you save $3,750. Nowhere near the extra $10K plus you will spend on the hybrid factoring in the higher initial price, battery replacement, and higher insurance costs.
You don't to just make up your own numbers based on your own feelings and expect people to believe you.

And who is out here driving all highway?

The average person is getting the combined mpg rating of a vehicle. Not city. Not highway. A new Camry gets 32 mpg combined. A new hybrid Camry gets 52 mpg combined.
250,000/32=7,812
250,000/52=4,807
3,005 gallons saved

The national average for a gallon of gas is currently $3.32. Pretty sure that's only going to go up in the future.

3,005*$3.32=$9,976 saved if prices of fuel were to never go up over the next 16 years.

Insurance prices are very individual based. When the Statefarm website isn't down for maintenance I'll log back on and get a quote.

There is currently a $2,435 difference in purchase price between a standard Camry and hybrid Camry.
 
Last edited:
You don't to just make up your own numbers based on your own feelings and expect people to believe you.

And who is out here driving all highway?

The average person is getting the combined mpg rating of a vehicle. Not city. Not highway. A new Camry gets 32 mpg combined. A new hybrid Camry gets 52 mpg combined.
250,000/32=7,812
250,000/52=4,807
3,005 gallons saved

The national average for a gallon of gas is currently $3.32. Pretty sure that's only going to go up in the future.

3,005*$3.32=$9,976 saved if prices of fuel were to never go up over the next 16 years.

Insurance prices are very individual based. When the Statefarm website isn't down for maintenance I'll log back on and get a quote.

There is currently a $2,435 difference in purchase price between a standard Camry and hybrid Camry.
 
I guess it depends on location and personal driving history.
Totaled a car last year, but was told no change to my insurance, and seemingly so. That said, it's like $2k/yr on our hybrid and $2,500/yr on our non-hybrid Corolla. But my teen drivers drivers are jacking that way up. I know it was way less before! Anyhow, my non-hybrid Corolla flat out costs more to insure. It's all about historical rates per model. Maybe the non-hybrid Camry costs less to insure than the hybrid Camry, no idea, I don't have both.
 
Back
Top