2025 so far EV sales up 28%

[alarmguy]

AG, GM is not profitable in their EV business; they have never claimed to be. I mentioned "variable cost" in my post in reference to CEO Barra's announcement.
Couple that with the recent material cost inflation and the loss of business in China and they may now be underwater in their Cost to Manufacture which is a component of the margin calculation.

Not sure if you are familiar with Cost Accounting, but CEO Barra claimed "variable profitability" which does not include all costs involved to deliver product. It is good to hear GM's staggering investments in the EV business are starting to pay off. It is a huge milestone.

I would, and do, find it interesting to see what costs go into GM, and others, cost calculation. I can tell you the resulting numbers can be misleading without detail.

We know Tesla includes the sale of credits to other companies in their profit-loss numbers. Without this knowledge, one might be led to believe that their profit-loss is solely based on product sales, which would be incorrect and misleading. My question to CEO Barra is why don't you break out your EV business (ala CEO Farley) in detail instead of burying it in the overall numbers? Citing "variable profit" is an important milestone but is also a play on words to the uninformed.

Varaible Cost, aka Cost to Manufacture generally includes direct material, labor and overhead. It probably does not include warranty/recall cost, royalty costs, factory fixed costs, equipment costs, etc.

GM started its EV business in 1990 with the EV1. The newer cars like the Bolt benefited from other platforms. Using parts from other platforms reduces development time and cost.

Clearly, this is an important subject for you.
I could care less
We could split hairs all day long. Your debate is with the media reporting GM turning to profitability in their electric vehicle business of which one of the links I posted. This has nothing to do with me.

I think the only thing that has to do with me is you praise Tesla sales performance and profit margins but it’s been in the toilet for well over a year now.

At the same time, you constantly call to question general motors electric vehicle profitability meantime the company as a whole has a steady 10 year record of profits and in the meantime, built a whole lineup of electric vehicles available now in 2025 and was still profitable as a accompany the entire time they started up this new complete electric vehicle line.

Tesla out of its 13 year history has only been profitable for about three years.

General motors sales and profits have been steadily increasing for the last decade. However, you diminish their success by splitting off a new division of the company that is stealing market share from Tesla in record time. Then debate what is being written in the media this year including the criteria by using the word “probably”
https://www.topspeed.com/gm-ev-profitability/

As far as your questions directed the GM I have always asked why doesnt Elon report how many cars he sells in the United States?
Why do outside companies have to estimate USA sales?

For others, it really doesn’t matter to me. I have nothing against Tesla. However, let’s not diminish the success for the last decade of General Motors.
Also the success of GM ramping up at record speed in the last three years production of electric vehicles with a lineup far exceeding Tesla. Acknowledge Tesla started on this path 13 years ago and has started to flounder according to their CEO.

You can go back a few years in this very forum when you constantly praised Tesla, sales growth, and profit, as well as promote their profit margin.
I told you once there was competition things would go downhill. Now they are just like any other car company. I do hope they survive and I said 1 million times I have nothing against them at all. We are now at crossroads where we are not sure how accepting mainstream America will be of an all electric vehicle, but one thing for sure. General motors has one heck of a lineup.

General Motors electric vehicles will most likely never match the performance of Tesla. However, General Motors knows it’s customer and they like comfortable large SUV type vehicles at fair prices.
The majority are not concerned with quarter mile speeds and firm rides.

I hope this makes sense, it’s time for me to get out of bed
I have a contractor coming in an hour to install four big healthy re-gen Sabal Palm trees that I am told weigh 1000 pounds or more each. Very exciting moment as try to complete the landscaping of our new home.

peace brother don’t get too excited over our debates

 

[KrisZ]

If I recall correctly GM spent most of the 2000s being unprofitable and they had many, many years of being unprofitable throughout their operational history.
For how many years was Amazon unprofitable after being started?

Using different standards of measuring “success” must be awfully convenient

 

[alarmguy]

Tesla sales decline down double digits yet again now for the 2nd quarter of 2025. The new Model Y has not helped.
The declines are horrible but one I am not surprised about, though I didn't think it would be this severe. The reason I feel this way is for me and my wife, we are SUV people and Tesla doesn't offer one. No matter what they call their vehicles.
I think if they focused on a family or even small larger stance SUV instead of the Cyber-truck these problems would not be as severe as they are. This company, as far as I am concerned better come up with a product Americans want if and only if they want to stay relevant in the USA. I think China sales (I didn't confirm, went up 2ish% but they are offering some slam dunk deals there)

https://insideevs.com/news/764450/tesla-q2-deliveries-2025/
____

 

[demarpaint]

Tesla sales decline down double digits yet again now for the 2nd quarter of 2025. The new Model Y has not helped.
The declines are horrible but one I am not surprised about, though I didn't think it would be this severe. The reason I feel this way is for me and my wife, we are SUV people and Tesla doesn't offer one. No matter what they call their vehicles.
I think if they focused on a family or even small larger stance SUV instead of the Cyber-truck these problems would not be as severe as they are. This company, as far as I am concerned better come up with a product Americans want if and only if they want to stay relevant in the USA. I think China sales (I didn't confirm, went up 2ish% but they are offering some slam dunk deals there)

https://insideevs.com/news/764450/tesla-q2-deliveries-2025/
____

As I've said more than once, competition is heating up and imo people are losing interest. What until the $7,500 tax deal goes bye bye.......

 

[macarose]

I have Tesla put options for November 2025 which I bought earlier this year, specifically because Tesla will likely have a fallout in demand once the susbidies in the USA are unavailable.

They are already in terrible shape in the EU and China. If the Trump tax bill passes and the EV tax credits get eliminated by the end of September, we'll likely be seeing a correction in Tesla's value.

 

[Torrid]

Tesla sales decline down double digits yet again now for the 2nd quarter of 2025. The new Model Y has not helped.
The declines are horrible but one I am not surprised about, though I didn't think it would be this severe. The reason I feel this way is for me and my wife, we are SUV people and Tesla doesn't offer one. No matter what they call their vehicles.
I think if they focused on a family or even small larger stance SUV instead of the Cyber-truck these problems would not be as severe as they are. This company, as far as I am concerned better come up with a product Americans want if and only if they want to stay relevant in the USA. I think China sales (I didn't confirm, went up 2ish% but they are offering some slam dunk deals there)

https://insideevs.com/news/764450/tesla-q2-deliveries-2025/
____

Tesla is claiming that is not accurate and will release their data on the 23rd. Not sure what that’s supposed to prove, but I’m curious.

 

[alarmguy]

Tesla is claiming that is not accurate and will release their data on the 23rd. Not sure what that’s supposed to prove, but I’m curious.

You got me on this one, seems like smoke and mirrors.
So you’re saying the numbers that Tesla released this week that Tesla is saying their own numbers are not accurate?

Anyway, even Wall Street is confused

 

[Torrid]

You got me on this one, seems like smoke and mirrors.
So you’re saying the numbers that Tesla released this week that Tesla is saying their own numbers are not accurate?

Anyway, even Wall Street is confused

I’ve seen a couple stories saying that. I have no idea what Tesla’s reasoning is.

 

[UncleDave]

As I've said more than once, competition is heating up and imo people are losing interest. What until the $7,500 tax deal goes bye bye.......

Agreed on the tax credit. I'd like to see all the automotive tax gifts and oil subsidies go away as well.

The American and European competition is turning out to be seriously disappointing. The Koreans are having problems.

I'd love a viable competitor to the 3 and y in the same price bracket but I'm still waiting.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Just opened a dealership, er ah I mean store, in our town. Of course there are 2 more nearby... I noticed it just opened as I was dropping off 5 jugs of used oil at O'Reilly's. Here's a pic of a few months ago.

 

[Torrid]

Agreed on the tax credit. I'd like to see all the automotive tax gifts and oil subsidies go away as well.

The American and European competition is turning out to be seriously disappointing. The Koreans are having problems.

I'd love a viable competitor to the 3 and y in the same price bracket but I'm still waiting.

They can kill the credit. We shouldn’t be subsidizing a lot of things. The credit expired before I bought my first one. It wouldn’t stop me from buying another. There’s not an EV that compares for the price and performance, especially when the charging network is figured in. I’ve heard all the charging horror stories and I’ve seen one Supercharger stall not working. It warned me on the screen as I approached to skip that one.

 

[UncleDave]

They can kill the credit. We shouldn’t be subsidizing a lot of things. The credit expired before I bought my first one. It wouldn’t stop me from buying another. There’s not an EV that compares for the price and performance, especially when the charging network is figured in. I’ve heard all the charging horror stories and I’ve seen one Supercharger stall not working. It warned me on the screen as I approached to skip that one.

Most charging horror stories are from non ev drivers, or those on the CCS network .

 

[JeffKeryk]

Most charging horror stories are from non ev drivers, or those on the CCS network .

Kinda funny... Many seem overly concerned by Supercharging, but most charging is done at home.
Here's the surprising (funny) part; I have come to enjoy stopping for a few minutes to charge, try out a new Starbucks or whatever, and get back on the road. Whoda thunk it?

No horror stories on my end, except for waiting in line in the store when someone can't make up their mind... Sheesh!

 

[Trav]

I have Tesla put options for November 2025 which I bought earlier this year, specifically because Tesla will likely have a fallout in demand once the susbidies in the USA are unavailable.

They are already in terrible shape in the EU and China. If the Trump tax bill passes and the EV tax credits get eliminated by the end of September, we'll likely be seeing a correction in Tesla's value.

Elmo can always move to Mars with his robots and his self driving Mars rover.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I have Tesla put options for November 2025 which I bought earlier this year, specifically because Tesla will likely have a fallout in demand once the susbidies in the USA are unavailable.

They are already in terrible shape in the EU and China. If the Trump tax bill passes and the EV tax credits get eliminated by the end of September, we'll likely be seeing a correction in Tesla's value.

I'm still kicking myself for buying the car in Dec 2018 instead of TSLA. Of course, we all knew this stupid little startup would be belly up at any time... Especially with the necessity to put up the tents earlier in the year. It was all over the news here. Elon sleeping at the Fremont factory and all the setbacks.

($50,000 / $23) * $315 = $684,782. Or there abouts...

 

[Torrid]

Most charging horror stories are from non ev drivers, or those on the CCS network .

That’s what I mean. I’ve seen plenty of videos using other chargers. It’s why I don’t bother with non Tesla chargers on the road.

 

[Torrid]

Elmo can always move to Mars with his robots and his self driving Mars rover.

I’m all for sending him up there even if we subsidize it if we can get someone who isn’t a complete fool to take the reins of Tesla that isn’t going to make wild promises.

 

[GrumpyCat]

Most charging horror stories are from non ev drivers, or those on the CCS network .

CCS networks.

Federal government tried to create a competitive market but what they got was a bunch of Government Farmers (those whose crop is government favoritism) who did the minimum to get the government's handouts. Being perceived as a single make solution Tesla was excluded from this funding. Truth be told Tesla was always open to other manufacturers but wanted financial participation on par with the number of vehicles. Choice of help Tesla or free ride from government? Took the free ride until it became a painfully obvious failure. Today non-Tesla users pay more at Superchargers than Teslas.

Transportation Secretary Butthead came along and burdened $7B with every woke and DEI initiative he could think of resulting in 7 or 8 charging stations built under that program in 4 years. Am surprised someone would lie enough to get funding for those 7 or 8.

 

[E365]

Being perceived as a single make solution Tesla was excluded from this funding.

What funding are you describing here? NEVI?

If so, that’s not true. Tesla has been award 95 NEVI sites, so far. They even got preferential treatment by the government because their equipment doesn’t meet the technical requirements of the NEVI program. Namely, they can’t output the 920 volts required. So they complained and got the rules changed.

 

[97prizm]

Although Im always interested in specific manufacturers numbers, the segments are more interesting to me.

Speaking of segments I think all automotive manufacturers should have to break out sales by individual model. Sure some models will have lower sales ie F-550 vs F-150 but Tesla groups the Cybertruck, Model S and model X together. They're not even likely cross-shopped among consumers.