2023 HD Road Glide Limited. HPL Primary Oil. Primary fluid analysis at 7400mi.

[fantastic]

HD says to run the primary to 10k. I’ll stick to 5k intervals because of the silicon loading.

Does the bike have the updated breather tube? That was what I mean by follow HD's update/recall if it's not been done yet.

 

[Highlander 1459]

That is high Fe & Al numbers to say the least. Definitely follow HD's update & re-test.

the case is aluminum, and the iron is probably from chain wear... its absolutely normal for stuff to be in there besides the oil
also the alternator windings alot going on in there...
people wear themselves out overthinking this device..
end result is it really simple and reliable, but the used oil will generally look like blackened metallic paint..

you ought to have seen what the old dry primary's looked like on a Panhead...

 

[Panda87]

yeah, I'm assuming due to the large volume in the primary and it being connected internally via the input shaft, any breathing is accomplished thru the main shaft...

I never thought about it in all my 30 years of playing with these machines... but for you, I would just say, dont worry about it. change the fluid when they say and dont do anything until it gives a problem... it probably never will.

I did the analysis primarily to see what sort of clutch material loading of the lube was going to look like. The silicon threw me for a little loop but I learned about the primary breather in the process, so it was worthwhile! I’m just going to change it at 5k to keep wear down as much as I can. I thought about putting a breather filter on it, but that would likely be more trouble than it’s worth.

 

[Panda87]

Does the bike have the updated breather tube? That was what I mean by follow HD's update/recall if it's not been done yet.

Sure does, that’s the filthy little rubber tube in the second pic I attached to the original post. I wish it was filtered.

 

[fantastic]

the case is aluminum, and the iron is probably from chain wear... its absolutely normal for stuff to be in there besides the oil
also the alternator windings alot going on in there...
people wear themselves out overthinking this device..
end result is it really simple and reliable, but the used oil will generally look like blackened metallic paint..

you ought to have seen what the old dry primary's looked like on a Panhead...

The case may be Al but there should be nothing of that case wearing. There are bearings & other material preventing an Aluminum case from wear showing up in a UOA.

There should not be this much Fe & Al. There will be wear material in a UOA.
Doubt anyone sampled a Panhead engine.
an older friend ran is 60's HD for a longggg time but he did rebuild it at least once but I think his 67-68' was shovelhead.

 

[Panda87]

the case is aluminum, and the iron is probably from chain wear... its absolutely normal for stuff to be in there besides the oil
also the alternator windings alot going on in there...
people wear themselves out overthinking this device..
end result is it really simple and reliable, but the used oil will generally look like blackened metallic paint..

you ought to have seen what the old dry primary's looked like on a Panhead...

Too right, lol. I sloshed it around in the drain pan and saw the gray metallic swirls in the blackness. I took a video of it and sent it to my buddies. The oil even had a sort of burned metal aroma to it. It did not smell pleasant

 

[fantastic]

Sure does, that’s the filthy little rubber tube in the second pic I attached to the original post. I wish it was filtered.

Rig up a small k&n crankcase breather to the tube to filter to it. Then figure out about how long for cleaning it.

 

[Panda87]

Rig up a small k&n crankcase breather tube filter to it. Then figure out about how long for cleaning it.

That was my consideration. Finding a breather with a tube small enough to interface is the challenge. Will likely have to do some sort of reducing to make it match up.

 

[loneryder]

the case is aluminum, and the iron is probably from chain wear... its absolutely normal for stuff to be in there besides the oil
also the alternator windings alot going on in there...
people wear themselves out overthinking this device..
end result is it really simple and reliable, but the used oil will generally look like blackened metallic paint..

you ought to have seen what the old dry primary's looked like on a Panhead...

Yes. It's really dirty after 5k miles.

 

[fantastic]

That was my consideration. Finding a breather with a tube small enough to interface is the challenge. Will likely have to do some sort of reducing to make it match up.

there will be some plumbing lol

Barbed end w/threads on other end
https://www.mcmaster.com/products/plastic-barbed-hose-fittings/?s=plastic-barbed-hose-fittings

Then screw on another opposing pipe fitting into the breather.

 

[Panda87]

there will be some plumbing lol

Barbed end w/threads on other end
https://www.mcmaster.com/products/plastic-barbed-hose-fittings/?s=plastic-barbed-hose-fittings

Then screw on another opposing pipe fitting into the breather.

You’re smarter than myself. I was just thinking of tubing and hose clamps

 

[RDY4WAR]

I agree with David that the higher wear metals are likely a result of dirt contamination given the high silicon content. Also note that ICP can only see very small particles of <10 um. If the sample was run through RDE, which can see bigger particle sizes, the Si content would likely be well into the hundreds.

 

[Highlander 1459]

The case may be Al but there should be nothing of that case wearing. There are bearings & other material preventing an Aluminum case from wear showing up in a UOA.

There should not be this much Fe & Al. There will be wear material in a UOA.
Doubt anyone sampled a Panhead engine.
an older friend ran is 60's HD for a longggg time but he did rebuild it at least once but I think his 67-68' was shovelhead.

yeah,,, but it sounds like the initial fluid change on a new bike, so one would expect initial wear.
I'm not going to argue except to point out I put 200,000 miles plus on 2 different Big Twins
and the one thing that never wore out was anything in the primary drive..

 

[Panda87]

I agree with David that the higher wear metals are likely a result of dirt contamination given the high silicon content. Also note that ICP can only see very small particles of <10 um. If the sample was run through RDE, which can see bigger particle sizes, the Si content would likely be well into the hundreds.

Good to know! Maybe I do need to look into fitting a breather filter to that tube.

 

[Highlander 1459]

Good to know! Maybe I do need to look into fitting a breather filter to that tube.

I think you have the same problem all new Harley Owners face... you are worrying about it.. doing the BITOG thing and overanalyzing.

I'm just here to say I was probably that way with my first Harley.
the 2nd Harley much less so
and the 3rd Harley I just rode it until it broke and then I fixed it..
the 3rd Bike never had many real problems over the years, it was a 2001FLHTCI bike that I bought used in 2002
was a Fly and Ride rental bike, so you know it was mistyreated by renters. LOL
that said it ran and ran and ran...
I think I broke 2 belts, they last at least 100k.
one belt drive sprocket wore out.
it did develop a wiring problem in the steering head where the wire bend when you steer, but at that point the bike had about 150k on it..
I burned a valve one time, but that again was up around 150k..

 

[Panda87]

I think you have the same problem all new Harley Owners face... you are worrying about it.. doing the BITOG thing and overanalyzing.

I'm just here to say I was probably that way with my first Harley.
the 2nd Harley much less so
and the 3rd Harley I just rode it until it broke and then I fixed it..
the 3rd Bike never had many real problems over the years, it was a 2001FLHTCI bike that I bought used in 2002
was a Fly and Ride rental bike, so you know it was mistyreated by renters. LOL
that said it ran and ran and ran...
I think I broke 2 belts, they last at least 100k.
one belt drive sprocket wore out.
it did develop a wiring problem in the steering head where the wire bend when you steer, but at that point the bike had about 150k on it..
I burned a valve one time, but that again was up around 150k..

In classic BITOGer fashion, I’m very likely over analyzing. This bike is my primary transportation, so ensuring I can get from one end of the state and back is critical, so that drives some of my maintenance OCD. Glad to know they are so long lived. I plan to try to wear this ol girl out in due time. I average over 1500miles per month, so in 5 years from now I should have it at 100k. Luckily I’ll have the 36 month loan paid off by then . Harley ran a 1.9% special that I would have been remiss to take advantage of.

 

[Highlander 1459]

In classic BITOGer fashion, I’m very likely over analyzing. This bike is my primary transportation, so ensuring I can get from one end of the state and back is critical, so that drives some of my maintenance OCD. Glad to know they are so long lived. I plan to try to wear this ol girl out in due time. I average over 1500miles per month, so in 5 years from now I should have it at 100k. Luckily I’ll have the 36 month loan paid off by then . Harley ran a 1.9% special that I would have been remiss to take advantage of.

yep. I averaged 20,000 miles per year for more than 20 years... but I had 2 bikes... because eventually you will be working on one and riding the other..
I still remember somebody asking me how long a rear tire lasts and I said 2 months.

have fun doing it.. you also will learn to read the weather..
for instnce you can smell rain before you hit it.
you can also smell road kill and other peoples vehicles which may save your butt.
I had a guy pass me on I 95, pulling a trailer, and as soon as he passed me I smelled rubber burning
so I slowed down and sure enough he had a blow out a 1/4 mile in front of me..
I know if I would have kept up with him I probably would have gotten nailed with flak.

 

[Panda87]

yep. I averaged 20,000 miles per year for more than 20 years... but I had 2 bikes... because eventually you will be working on one and riding the other..
I still remember somebody asking me how long a rear tire lasts and I said 2 months.

have fun doing it.. you also will learn to read the weather..
for instnce you can smell rain before you hit it.
you can also smell road kill and other peoples vehicles which may save your butt.
I had a guy pass me on I 95, pulling a trailer, and as soon as he passed me I smelled rubber burning
so I slowed down and sure enough he had a blow out a 1/4 mile in front of me..
I know if I would have kept up with him I probably would have gotten nailed with flak.

I’ve been riding for 18 years, but haven’t been putting in regular high miles until the last 4 or so. When I was a young buck, I could do VA Beach to Pensacola on a Yamaha R6 in 13.5 hours. No way I could do that now .

Picking up road and weather cues has saved my bacon a few times as well. The potheads on the road have no clue how easy it is to smell their skunk stank even if their windows are all rolled up when I’m rolling on 2s. I’d venture to guess that when I’m rolling in Montgomery it’s every 6th car driving and getting high.

 

[Highlander 1459]

I’ve been riding for 18 years, but haven’t been putting in regular high miles until the last 4 or so. When I was a young buck, I could do VA Beach to Pensacola on a Yamaha R6 in 13.5 hours. No way I could do that now .

Picking up road and weather cues has saved my bacon a few times as well. The potheads on the road have no clue how easy it is to smell their skunk stank even if their windows are all rolled up when I’m rolling on 2s. I’d venture to guess that when I’m rolling in Montgomery it’s every 6th car driving and getting high.

a little off topic. I am in my mid 60's. sold my bike a couple years back, am bikeless...
this week I was looking at local HD dealer for used Road Kings. I saw a 09 road King they had, low miles, pretty much what I would want, hard bags, cast wheels, looked clean and had 7000 miles.. it said contact for price.
I contacted them via email, but the one thing those jackwagons would not give me was a price.
oh they wanted me to come in and arrange a test ride, as there is a ton of interest blah blah blah.

this was their response.

Quote "
Thank you for your inquiry. My name is Alissa, and I'm here to help you through the process and make it easy for you to get the right bike!
I see you're interested in the Road King; great choice by the way! This bike has been getting A TON of attention & does qualify for our current promotion that ends on Sunday! I would also suggest taking a look at the Heritage if you like the Road King, a lot of my customers cross shop these two bikes!

Here is what I would like to recommend: let’s set up a time where we can either speak “live” on the phone – or, better yet, set up a time for you to visit our store. That way, we’ll be able to answer your questions, help you with additional research, and, if you’re here, help you experience our current inventory in ways that you can’t on the web or by phone.

Do you have time to make it tomorrow for a demo ride? We are open until 7pm; would 12:45 or 2:15 work better?

 

[Panda87]

a little off topic. I am in my mid 60's. sold my bike a couple years back, am bikeless...
this week I was looking at local HD dealer for used Road Kings. I saw a 09 road King they had, low miles, pretty much what I would want, hard bags, cast wheels, looked clean and had 7000 miles.. it said contact for price.
I contacted them via email, but the one thing those jackwagons would not give me was a price.
oh they wanted me to come in and arrange a test ride, as there is a ton of interest blah blah blah.

this was their response.

Quote "
Thank you for your inquiry. My name is Alissa, and I'm here to help you through the process and make it easy for you to get the right bike!
I see you're interested in the Road King; great choice by the way! This bike has been getting A TON of attention & does qualify for our current promotion that ends on Sunday! I would also suggest taking a look at the Heritage if you like the Road King, a lot of my customers cross shop these two bikes!

Here is what I would like to recommend: let’s set up a time where we can either speak “live” on the phone – or, better yet, set up a time for you to visit our store. That way, we’ll be able to answer your questions, help you with additional research, and, if you’re here, help you experience our current inventory in ways that you can’t on the web or by phone.

Do you have time to make it tomorrow for a demo ride? We are open until 7pm; would 12:45 or 2:15 work better?

Seems pretty stereotypical HD salesmanship. Hit her back and say something like “ma’am, I’d like to not waste your time or mine test riding a motorcycle that may be out of my price range. Let’s start with a price and go from there.” I hope you get one! I’d get a road king for my cone rodeo stuff