2015 BMW N20 X1 UOA 5K MILES NON-EURO OIL: ROUND 2

himemsys said:
Let's not start the inflammatory Blackstone Bashing again.
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If you search the UOA section you will find many instances where Blackstone messed up and provided bad results, and worse, offered interpretations on those results. Then when they retested they offered new results. It was even worse when they mixed up samples and sent completely wrong results to customers, and then offered interpretation on those results. Again, when asked, they confirmed that they mixed up the results. It's all in the UOA section of this forum.

himemsys said:
Then M1 did a VOA on their own oil and came up with similar results. ;)
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Can you please provide a link or reference for that?
 
Rod Knock said:
If you search the UOA section you will find many instances where Blackstone messed up and provided bad results, and worse, offered interpretations on those results. Then when they retested they offered new results. It was even worse when they mixed up samples and sent completely wrong results to customers, and then offered interpretation on those results. Again, when asked, they confirmed that they mixed up the results. It's all in the UOA section of this forum.


Can you please provide a link or reference for that?
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My original point a few posts back is that Blackstone is used more than other labs. The sheer volume of UOAs they provide is going to make things look worse. If you switched BS with another lab in terms of volume of UOAs done, I bet you'd see the other lab suddenly seem to have more mistakes.

Here is the link you requested. It's a YT video from Engineering Explained. I've linked to the timestamp where the results are presented, but feel free to watch the whole video.
 
himemsys said:
There's also this: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...-by-three-different-test-laboratories.344857/
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Yes, though I think it's important to note here that with this three lab test, viscosity was pretty consistent between the labs, despite the elementals varying significantly.

Hopefully Kevin can clarify if this is from the same batch or not. While ideal, I don't think it's particularly reasonable for us to expect somebody to do both a VOA and UOA on their fill at twice the cost.

OAI/Polaris does do oxidation, so that should be helpful here too.
 
himemsys said:
I bet you'd see the other lab suddenly seem to have more mistakes.
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No, that would indicate a lack of discipline at that company and prompt me to switch and use someone else. It also indicates a poorly implemented oil analysis process and superficial quality control for results. No matter the volume, getting it right every time is not hard.

himemsys said:
Here is the link you requested.
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That wasn't a VOA. That was a sample taken at 3000 miles. The VOA they do for each blended batch is measured in a factory lab, at greater accuracy, as in parts per billion. Again, this goes back to the statement about the advertised typical properties of lubricants, and you pointing the finger at Mobil 1 for no apparent reason has nothing to do with the topic discussed in this thread.
 
Rod Knock said:
No, that would indicate a lack of discipline at that company and prompt me to switch and use someone else. It also indicates a poorly implemented oil analysis process and superficial quality control for results. No matter the volume, getting it right every time is not hard.
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I think that until you can divide the number of mistakes by the total amount of oil analyses for EACH lab, you can't definitively say BS is inaccurate compared to other labs because the sheer volume they do will appear to magnify what is likely a tiny percentage of mistakes. Here is a thread that shows the "other" lab apparently messing up, not BS:

Two Labs, Same Oil, Different TBN Results...

More just for a interesting experiment I sent the same used oil to two different labs. I'm in Canada so sending to Blackstone is somewhat of a inconvenience and somewhat costly with extra shipping costs. My local Caterpillar dealer(Finning) does UOA, it's much more convenient for me to drop it...
bobistheoilguy.com
Rod Knock said:
That wasn't a VOA. That was a sample taken at 3000 miles. The VOA they do for each blended batch is measured in a factory lab, at greater accuracy, as in parts per billion. Again, this goes back to the statement about the advertised typical properties of lubricants, and you pointing the finger at Mobil 1 for no apparent reason has nothing to do with the topic discussed in this thread.
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My bad, the VOA is presented earlier in the video:

Pay attention to the Ph and Zn in the first column.
Ph 424
Zn 445

According to the PDS, these should be 760 and 830. Prior to this video being posted, all the BS VOAs of this oil showed similar low levels and the immediate outcry here was to blame BS for being inaccurate.
 
OVERKILL said:
Yes, though I think it's important to note here that with this three lab test, viscosity was pretty consistent between the labs, despite the elementals varying significantly.
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Right. Point being, if OP's two samples were from different batches, it's more likely that their starting viscosities were different to begin with.
 
himemsys said:
Here is a thread that shows the "other" lab apparently messing up, not BS:

Two Labs, Same Oil, Different TBN Results...

More just for a interesting experiment I sent the same used oil to two different labs. I'm in Canada so sending to Blackstone is somewhat of a inconvenience and somewhat costly with extra shipping costs. My local Caterpillar dealer(Finning) does UOA, it's much more convenient for me to drop it...
bobistheoilguy.com
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Well, that thread actually shows Blackstone TBN coming back almost an entire point higher after a re-test, and there has been no update on whether he had CAT re-run their sample or not. I don't think that supports your assertion here.
 
himemsys said:
Right. Point being, if OP's two samples were from different batches, it's more likely that their starting viscosities were different to begin with.
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Understood, and I addressed that in my comment about whether it was realistic for us to expect VOA's for every UOA from people (which I don't think it is). The OP can fill us in on whether he bought all this oil at the same time, or if this more recent fill was purchased at a different time, in which case we may not be able to contrast batch numbers if he has nothing left of the first buy.
 
OVERKILL said:
Well, that thread actually shows Blackstone TBN coming back almost an entire point higher after a re-test, and there has been no update on whether he had CAT re-run their sample or not. I don't think that supports your assertion here.
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CAT's TBN appeared to be closer to virgin value than an oil that had 200 hours on it. Both of BS's results showed the oil clearly had been in use for some time.
 
himemsys said:
CAT's TBN appeared to be closer to virgin value than an oil that had 200 hours on it. Both of BS's results showed the oil clearly had been in use for some time.
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Yes, but as @RDY4WAR mentioned, there are two different TBN testing methodologies, so depending on what CAT used, if they used the older version, that captures all the base in the oil, the result is going to be higher.

Remember, the virgin number was from a VOA on this site, and that was also likely obtained from Blackstone, which means it was done using D4739.

Without a re-test from CAT, we can't really judge their consistency, while we do know that Blackstone results changed significantly between test and re-test.

We really need re-test results from CAT to draw any additional conclusions from that thread.
 
himemsys said:
According to the PDS, these should be 760 and 830.
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What PDS lists Phosphorus and Zinc ppm numbers?

Maybe we should get back on topic. I'm sure @KEVINK0000 is anxious to tell us why he's conducting this experiment, while BMW engineers deternined a long time ago that ILSAC motor oils are not good enough for their engines.
 
I don’t understand why people refuse to just use the correct oil. This is stone ax simple…

BMW, the other Euros do not go to the trouble to devise, liscense and certify to approvals because the do not matter…

I tried to make sense out of what the end game here is even from the prior thread, and failed to decipher the code…

Anyway - your equipment - your choice - your consequences…
 
DuckRyder said:
I don’t understand why people refuse to just use the correct oil.
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party-iliketoparty.gif
 
@RDY4WAR, yeah, I get the meme. However, the OP is not doing it like, "I'd like to try something new to improve the reliability and longevity of ... my son's engine." Cause it's not even his vehicle, it's his son's. He's doing it because he can and because it's not his vehicle to damage. It's messed up if you think about it.
 
Rod Knock said:
That's a product guide for informational purposes, not a PDS. Also, the numbers in your video are in line with the product guide from 2019. Mobil only recently revamped their lineup (look for Dexos 1 Gen 3 jugs/bottles or where they say Tripple Action).
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Tell that to all the people here that were up in arms about the low Ph/Zn. I never had an issue with it. My issue was them scapegoating BS for it. And no, I don't work for them nor am I affiliated with them in any way. I just don't like unfair characterizations. It happens too much in this world, where misinformation, rumor and gossip lead people to the wrong conclusions, which then leads to ugliness and grade school behavior.
 
I’m happy with Blackstone. Do I really care if vis is 10.8 or 11.1? No. Do I care about 3.8 vs 2.9 tbn? No. What I care about is crazy high metal numbers and crazy high fuel dilution. If i see any of that then I’d get a second opinion.
 
Oliveoil2 said:
I’m happy with Blackstone. Do I really care if vis is 10.8 or 11.1? No. Do I care about 3.8 vs 2.9 tbn? No. What I care about is crazy high metal numbers and crazy high fuel dilution. If i see any of that then I’d get a second opinion.
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Unfortunately that is one of the things that Blackstone is in capable of measuring properly.
 
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