2013 Buick Verano Turbo

SteveSRT8 · Jun 12, 2012

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
But we all know the foibles of big hp in a FWD vehicle. Challenging to say the least.

I sure hope the general has some chassis tweaks up his sleeve.

Yeah it may on paper be able to compete with a little BMW, but in the real world I highly doubt it.

In the real world the 3 series will have vastly superior dynamics. Their new 8 speed slushbox is yet another advantage if you want an auto trans.

The new BMW 4 banger is very nice and quite powerful, but it's still a 4 cylinder in a lot of car.

IndyIan · Jun 12, 2012

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: sciphi
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
But we all know the foibles of big hp in a FWD vehicle. Challenging to say the least.

I sure hope the general has some chassis tweaks up his sleeve.

There's zero torque steer in my Cruze, even running a tune and doing without some of the torque steer reducing devices seen on non-Eco Cruzes. GM did an excellent job tweaking the torque steer out of this chassis.

I bet the Verano Turbo limits the boost at low gears and low speeds to stop torque steer. Probably once it hits 3rd is only when the full boost of the engine comes on. I see the same thing in my Cruze, even on the tune. 1st gets me maybe 5 PSI at WOT, 2nd gets me 18-19 PSI, and 3rd nets the full 22 PSI the turbo is capable of shoving out.

Yes, I am aware of torque management as a strategy for helping, but there's a HUGE difference in hp here. I've had a few high powered fwd cars and they can get a bit squirrelly!

No one says you have to mat it all the time either. I suspect most people will be more than happy with the 1/2 throttle performance and if it gets a little wild WO then that's OK. I guess too, if you are on the verge of breaking traction, its better to feel it through the wheel than not. I wonder too if they use all the yaw and G-sensors to do some magic with the front brakes and adjust steering feel too.

sciphi · Jun 12, 2012

Again, knowing my Cruze, it wouldn't surprise me if GM did some software magic with the traction and stability control to control torque steer.

Also, the amount of fury this car puts forth will depend whether or not it has a MT or an AT. The traction control on my MT is almost as useless as teats on a boar. It'll let me spin the tires to a fare-thee-well without intervening, except in deep snow when I really need to. I've heard the AT Cruzes have a very well integrated traction control. Something says the MT cars will be wilder, while the AT cars will be milder.

Win · Jun 13, 2012

Looks like a nice car. Too bad it's wrong wheel drive.

MarkM66 · Jun 13, 2012

Originally Posted By: NHGUY
With the CAFE standards coming,V8s and V6s will be near extinct.A V6 getting 40-50 mpg is pretty far fetched.

RWD must be on that list of near extincting too.

sciphi · Jun 13, 2012

I've personally achieved 39 mpg from a 3.8 liter V6 in my old Buick LeSabre. 40 mpg with a smaller V6 in a lighter, slicker car seems doable.

Although, it's much easier to get that goal with a tiny little turbo engine which doesn't have 2 extra cylinders to move, and only guzzles fuel when the turbo is used heavily.

IndyIan · Jun 13, 2012

Originally Posted By: MarkM66
Originally Posted By: NHGUY
With the CAFE standards coming,V8s and V6s will be near extinct.A V6 getting 40-50 mpg is pretty far fetched.

RWD must be on that list of near extincting too.

I dunno, having small turbo 4 cyl. motors must make planning a RWD drivetrain easier to do. With Dodges "cam in a cam" technology and the torque available at relatively low rpms, a turbo OHV 4 cylinder could be tiny compared to a NA DOHC V6, but still equal its performance and blow it away in fuel efficiency.

MrHorspwer · Jun 13, 2012

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
With Dodges "cam in a cam" technology and the torque available at relatively low rpms, a turbo OHV 4 cylinder could be tiny compared to a NA DOHC V6, but still equal its performance and blow it away in fuel efficiency.

"Cam in a cam" is not a Chrysler technology. It was developed by a UK company called Mechadyne, who supplies the camshaft to Chrysler.

SteveSRT8 · Jun 13, 2012

You guys may be a bit confused.

The cam in cam tech is in the Viper V10. It is sourced from Mahle, the same folks who make the pistons.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/201...-happen-feature

It's on page 3

MrHorspwer · Jun 13, 2012

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
You guys may be a bit confused.

The cam in cam tech is in the Viper V10. It is sourced from Mahle, the same folks who make the pistons.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/201...-happen-feature

It's on page 3

I'm not confused. Mechadyne developed the technology. Mahle is just the manufacturer. They license the design from Mechadyne.

http://www.mechadyne-int.com/vva-products/concentric-camshafts

http://www.mechadyne-int.com/vva-news/
Quote:
April 2009

MAHLE, who manufacture our concentric camshaft under licence for the Dodge Viper engine, have produced an excellent video of how the cam is assembled and how it works.

Please play the animation below to find out more...

More than once, I spent an early morning on the phone with Mechadyne in a conference call.

dailydriver · Jun 13, 2012

Originally Posted By: morepwr
Originally Posted By: sciphi

Stu_Rock said:
Still, it's nice to see Buick with some drool-worthy cars again! And, bets on when the first crashed Verano Turbo MT gives up its turbo engine for a Cruze Eco MT drivetrain swap. That engine minus 400 lbs just might motivate an Eco MT to 60 in under 6 seconds...

This guy think like I do! And I am thinking Sonic.

How about Sonic, with a modded up to 375 HP Verano Turbo MT drivetrain, and a lightweight, biasable, AWD system??!!

dailydriver · Jun 13, 2012

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
But we all know the foibles of big hp in a FWD vehicle. Challenging to say the least.

I sure hope the general has some chassis tweaks up his sleeve.

They may need to 'borrow' some of that front end/drivetrain tech from Ford UK/Europe, which was used on the Focus RS500, if the power goes up any more.

OVER 300 ponies to the front wheels, and not even a hint of torque steer, great neutral power out of apexes, and VERY neutral handling overall for a wrongwheeldriver!!

dailydriver · Jun 13, 2012

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
DETROIT – Buick today announced the 2013 Verano Turbo luxury sedan will be powered by an Ecotec 2.0L turbocharged engine with direct injection and continuously variable valve timing that produces an SAE-certified 250 horsepower (187 kW) at 5300 rpm and 260 lb.-ft. (353 Nm) of torque at 2000 rpm. Acceleration from 0-60 mph is an estimated 6.2 seconds.

I wonder what the actual 0-60 will end up being. Interestingly a 328i with a 2-liter turbo makes 10 less HP and same torque, is about 150 lbs heavier, yet can do 0-60 in half a second less than the Verano.

Granted, but what is the Teuton's final drive/gearbox ratios??
Also, RWD weight transfer/traction to consider.

sciphi · Jun 15, 2012

Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: morepwr
Originally Posted By: sciphi

Stu_Rock said:
Still, it's nice to see Buick with some drool-worthy cars again! And, bets on when the first crashed Verano Turbo MT gives up its turbo engine for a Cruze Eco MT drivetrain swap. That engine minus 400 lbs just might motivate an Eco MT to 60 in under 6 seconds...

This guy think like I do! And I am thinking Sonic.

How about Sonic, with a modded up to 375 HP Verano Turbo MT drivetrain, and a lightweight, biasable, AWD system??!!

2/3 of that ought to be very doable.

I said Cruze instead of Sonic since the Cruze is a much quieter, more composed car. The Sonic would be a little [censored] ball of fun, while the Cruze with that drivetrain could be DD'd without issue.

BrianWC · Jun 18, 2012

Originally Posted By: ls1mike
Originally Posted By: artificialist
Originally Posted By: BrianWC
Oh and I remember hat an oddity turbo 4's were when they were just about only found in saabs a few years back...

Exactly how many years ago?

I can think of numerous Volvos, VWs, Chrysler products, Mitsubishis, and Subaru models with turbocharged 4 cylinder engines.

I was about to say that. I had a bunch of early to mid 80's turbo Mopar products. All lasted a long time.

No just pointing out that outside of SAAB, Volvo, and VW, turbos were fairly rare in the period between the rise of turbo cars in the 80's and this new FE push post-2008 oil spike. A common complaint w/ the 9-5 was a car w/ lux or near lux pretensions needed a 6 and not a turbo 4.

Anywho...I liked the Cobalt SS and always thought it was the ultimate sleeper. SS badge or not, no one ever expected that car to be fast. It'll be neat to see where GM takes forced induction. I wonder why they don't play it up more a la Ford "Ecoboost?"

rjundi · Jun 27, 2012

I just don't like the look of the car myself. Nice effort in 6mt with 250hp.

2013 Buick Verano Turbo

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