2011 F-150 Ecoboost

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
2 - My father-in-law owns a new Lincoln with the ecoboost v6 in it. It gets 17 mpg in real world driving. The Taurus SHO got 16 in rag testing. I get better than that with a very tired 4.6 Lincoln! [censored], my SRT8 gets 17 in the city!


Does your 4.6 Lincoln or SRT8 have AWD?

 

[SteveSRT8]

That's a great diversion, but way off topic. Really adds cred to the Ford booster club!

The point is the great mileage 'promise' of smaller displacement coupled with DI turbo(s) is simply not there.

Time for a reality check. You boys have been reading too much Ford advertising.

 

[millerbl00]

I like FORD but I would wait until it was out for 4 model years before buying. I bought at new body style 2006 F150 and it had the "death shake". Lost about $3000 trying to fix it. Worse yet the 2003 F150 I traded it in for ran perfectly. No shake.

I have a feeling I should have waited on the Fusion also.

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
That's a great diversion, but way off topic. Really adds cred to the Ford booster club!

The point is the great mileage 'promise' of smaller displacement coupled with DI turbo(s) is simply not there.

Time for a reality check. You boys have been reading too much Ford advertising.


Actually, it is there when you compare the mileage to V8s. You're comparing the fuel mileage of RWD vehicles to AWD, and AWD usually comes with a fuel mileage penalty.

Ford Flex FWD - 17/24
Ford Flex AWD - 16/22
Ford Flex EcoBoost AWD - 16/22

Ford Taurus FWD - 18/28
Ford Taurus AWD - 17/25
Ford Taurus SHO EcoBoost AWD - 17/25

Dodge Charger 5.7 RWD - 16/25
Dodge Charger 5.7 AWD - 16/23
Dodge Charger SRT8 6.1 RWD - 13/19

So how can you compare RWD V8 cars to AWD EcoBoost cars and use this mismatch to condemn the technology? EcoBoost is going to shine when it allows for downsized engines in the same chassis without drive-train compromises like AWD. The 1.6 EcoBoost Fiesta is going to show the real advantages of GDI/turbos.

 

[SteveSRT8]

All I said is there is no mileage advantage when compared to a similar power N/A Motor.

Doesn't matter whether it's all wheel drive or not.

Simple, eh?

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
All I said is there is no mileage advantage when compared to a similar power N/A Motor.

Doesn't matter whether it's all wheel drive or not.

Simple, eh?


Yet the numbers clearly show there is. What 365 HP V8 car with AWD and a 4,000+ lb. weight gets 17/25 like the SHO?

To put it in perspective, the 365 HP Taurus SHO gets better fuel mileage than a 250 HP V6 AWD Dodge Charger.

Ford Taurus SHO - 17/25
Dodge Charger AWD V6 - 17/23
Dodge Charger AWD V8 - 16/23

http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/automotive_news/4322127.html

The SHO outperformed the AWD 300C in every regard, and got 1.1 mpg better despite being the heavier car. Not a drastic fuel economy advantage, but I'd bet the SHO saw full boost numerous times in that road test.

 

[MrHorspwer]

Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
The 1.6 EcoBoost Fiesta is going to show the real advantages of GDI/turbos.


Considering Ford hasn't officially announced any type of EcoBoost engine for the Fiesta, or the Focus for that matter, concluding that an EcoBoost Fiesta will change the world is pure speculation.

On the other hand, GM has already confirmed that their 1.4L DI turbo will be going into the new Cruze right from the launch date... but GM doesn't have a fancy name and huge marketing campaign for their new powertrain.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
The 1.6 EcoBoost Fiesta is going to show the real advantages of GDI/turbos.


Considering Ford hasn't officially announced any type of EcoBoost engine for the Fiesta, or the Focus for that matter, concluding that an EcoBoost Fiesta will change the world is pure speculation.

On the other hand, GM has already confirmed that their 1.4L DI turbo will be going into the new Cruze right from the launch date... but GM doesn't have a fancy name and huge marketing campaign for their new powertrain.


No, just government ownership!

Ford has freedom GM doesn't have right now. And they also have the respect of a LOT of consumers. Again, something GM is lacking.

Maybe GM should have developed the "world changing" Cruise (of course without a Ford-esque snazzy ad campaign) 10 years ago so they didn't have to go bankrupt?

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
The 1.6 EcoBoost Fiesta is going to show the real advantages of GDI/turbos.


Considering Ford hasn't officially announced any type of EcoBoost engine for the Fiesta, or the Focus for that matter, concluding that an EcoBoost Fiesta will change the world is pure speculation.


It's going to happen...

http://blogs.edmunds.com/greencaradvisor...t-launches.html

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
All I said is there is no mileage advantage when compared to a similar power N/A Motor.
Doesn't matter whether it's all wheel drive or not.
Simple, eh?

Yet the numbers clearly show there is. What 365 HP V8 car with AWD and a 4,000+ lb. weight gets 17/25 like the SHO?
To put it in perspective, the 365 HP Taurus SHO gets better fuel mileage than a 250 HP V6 AWD Dodge Charger.
Ford Taurus SHO - 17/25
Dodge Charger AWD V6 - 17/23
Dodge Charger AWD V8 - 16/23
http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/automotive_news/4322127.html
The SHO outperformed the AWD 300C in every regard, and got 1.1 mpg better despite being the heavier car. Not a drastic fuel economy advantage, but I'd bet the SHO saw full boost numerous times in that road test.


Man, what a LAME example! A truly lame one. A tired old car with an aged V6 and AWD system, against your fab new DI/Turbo?

Listen, you can believe what you want, the story has already been told in the real world, not in the hypothetical EPA numbers.

Ford has no magic. They have some nice engineering, some timely moves based on pure chance (their leveraging the whole company just before the economy flattened) and some really nice looking cars. But they're not able to defy physics.

Kool aid served here.

 

[MrHorspwer]

Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
The 1.6 EcoBoost Fiesta is going to show the real advantages of GDI/turbos.


Considering Ford hasn't officially announced any type of EcoBoost engine for the Fiesta, or the Focus for that matter, concluding that an EcoBoost Fiesta will change the world is pure speculation.


It's going to happen...

http://blogs.edmunds.com/greencaradvisor...t-launches.html



Did you even read that particular snippet?

Let me paraphrase: "It's coming... but we can't say when (definitely not at launch), nor can we say if it will be a 1.6L or something smaller." Seriously? The VP of product development doesn't know when it will be available or which engine it will actually be?

It sounds like they're ready to go ahead with it tomorrow!

You Ford guys keep drinking the marketing kool-aid and dreaming about a rosey tomorrow. Call me when Ford finally figures out what they're going to do and makes an *official* announcement, not a closed doors conversation with Automotive News.

 

[marty600]

Hey, where is this info(e150) at? Tried searching, no luck...I have a 5.4 F250 CNG, dedicated. I bet this puppy could last that long, if I was not going to let it go for the 2011 v6 Mustang...30mpg hiway. That said, GM's 2.4 DI 4cyl can push a SUV(Terrain) to 30 mpg, they have a real winner there, powertrain-wise. I wonder what the Camaro would do with it? 32??? Not all of us want to "track" our cars!

 

[wapacz]

Originally Posted By: marty600
Hey, where is this info(e150) at? Tried searching, no luck...I have a 5.4 F250 CNG, dedicated. I bet this puppy could last that long, if I was not going to let it go for the 2011 v6 Mustang...30mpg hiway. That said, GM's 2.4 DI 4cyl can push a SUV(Terrain) to 30 mpg, they have a real winner there, powertrain-wise. I wonder what the Camaro would do with it? 32??? Not all of us want to "track" our cars!


gm's camaro with the 3.6 di rated at 304 hp has a highway ratting of 29.

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
Did you even read that particular snippet?

Let me paraphrase: "It's coming... but we can't say when (definitely not at launch), nor can we say if it will be a 1.6L or something smaller." Seriously? The VP of product development doesn't know when it will be available or which engine it will actually be?

It sounds like they're ready to go ahead with it tomorrow!

"Nor can we say" doesn't mean "we don't know".

Quote:
You Ford guys keep drinking the marketing kool-aid and dreaming about a rosey tomorrow. Call me when Ford finally figures out what they're going to do and makes an *official* announcement, not a closed doors conversation with Automotive News.


Why would a successful Ford show their hand to GM who is still trying to convince the American public they are a viable option?

Perfect example is the 6.7 Scorpion and the 4.5 Duramax, we've known the details about the 4.5 Duramax for quite a while now, yet the 6.7 Scorpion is the older program.

The big difference between Ford and GM right now is that GM is FORCED to show their hand to remain viable in people's minds. Perhaps you have forgotten the Camaro fiasco, the car dangled in front of consumers for YEARS before you could buy one.

 

[MrHorspwer]

Quote:
Why would a successful Ford show their hand to GM who is still trying to convince the American public they are a viable option?


First off, I would hardly call Ford successful. In the past five years, Ford has borrowed about $25 billion. The only difference being, they borrowed it from banks, not the government. With the exception of one or two quarters, they've also lost money every quarter since they took on that debt.

Are they better off than GM? Sure. Are they running a healthy business? No, far from it. Are they on the right track? Absolutly... but the same can be said for GM too.

Quote:
Perfect example is the 6.7 Scorpion and the 4.5 Duramax, we've known the details about the 4.5 Duramax for quite a while now, yet the 6.7 Scorpion is the older program.


Perfect example of what? The 4.5L Duramax was intended as a 1/2 ton diesel. GM was the first to announce a 1/2 ton diesel. Of course they're going to highlight that technology.

The 6.7L is a replacement for a failed relationship with International and a failed engine in the 6.0/6.4. Why would you want to bring attention to that? "Yeah, our old diesels engines sucked and were plagued with problems. Don't worry though, we're going to design the next one ourselves and it'll be great!" That would have been market suicide.

Quote:
Perhaps you have forgotten the Camaro fiasco, the car dangled in front of consumers for YEARS before you could buy one.


Which is exactly what EcoBoost is turning into.

Don't get me wrong, I think the direct injection + turbo concept is great. I'm not doubting it and I can't wait to see it offered on more vehicles. Right now, Ford is hyping the technology... but falling a bit short on delivery. You can get the engine in a range topping Ford (either Taurus or Flex) or in a luxury Lincoln. That's not making it a very accessible technology.

That's my beef. They're marketing the technology as an answer to *everyone's* fuel economy concerns, but only making it available to those who have the means to buy $35,000+ cars. Hype the technology all you want, but deliver it! Viva la EcoBoost!

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
Quote:
Why would a successful Ford show their hand to GM who is still trying to convince the American public they are a viable option?


First off, I would hardly call Ford successful. In the past five years, Ford has borrowed about $25 billion. The only difference being, they borrowed it from banks, not the government. With the exception of one or two quarters, they've also lost money every quarter since they took on that debt.


They took the loans the right way, and have used the capital in the right way. To rebuild the business with a successful model. They are gaining market-share, they are turning profits, they are producing class leading vehicles, their stock price has increased amazingly in the last two years. They are successful.

Quote:
Are they better off than GM? Sure. Are they running a healthy business? No, far from it. Are they on the right track? Absolutly... but the same can be said for GM too.


I disagree, the bailouts have taken GM off of many shopper's list. Many life long GM fans too. The fact that GM has no intention to pay back $43 billion isn't helping their case either.

Quote:
Perfect example is the 6.7 Scorpion and the 4.5 Duramax, we've known the details about the 4.5 Duramax for quite a while now, yet the 6.7 Scorpion is the older program.

Perfect example of what? The 4.5L Duramax was intended as a 1/2 ton diesel. GM was the first to announce a 1/2 ton diesel. Of course they're going to highlight that technology.


Perfect example of GM showing their hand way too early.

Quote:
Which is exactly what EcoBoost is turning into.

Don't get me wrong, I think the direct injection + turbo concept is great. I'm not doubting it and I can't wait to see it offered on more vehicles. Right now, Ford is hyping the technology... but falling a bit short on delivery. You can get the engine in a range topping Ford (either Taurus or Flex) or in a luxury Lincoln. That's not making it a very accessible technology.


What we've seen is the first wave of EcoBoost, what really should have been marketed under the TwinForce name (because they are more performance biased), but they decided to build brand equity now.

Quote:
That's my beef. They're marketing the technology as an answer to *everyone's* fuel economy concerns, but only making it available to those who have the means to buy $35,000+ cars. Hype the technology all you want, but deliver it! Viva la EcoBoost!


It is the answer for most, but the EcoBoost didn't come with a displacement reduction in the Taurus/Flex/MKS which is the ultimate goal of the technology.

You are jumping the gun on the condemnation.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Ford has no magic. They have some nice engineering, some timely moves based on pure chance (their leveraging the whole company just before the economy flattened) and some really nice looking cars. But they're not able to defy physics.






No one jumped anyone.

It's brand new.

It has NOT lived up to its own hype.

Check back in 3 years. Until then it's all hype.

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Ford has no magic. They have some nice engineering, some timely moves based on pure chance (their leveraging the whole company just before the economy flattened) and some really nice looking cars. But they're not able to defy physics.


You say chance, I say foresight and good management.

Quote:
No one jumped anyone.

It's brand new.

It has NOT lived up to its own hype.

Check back in 3 years. Until then it's all hype.


It's not hype, as evidenced by the EPA figures comparing the EcoBoost engines to their n/a counterparts.

The EcoBoost 3.5 engines were the first ones ready to go and so here we are. EcoBoost, per the marketing hype, really shines when it allows decreased displacement (in the same vehicle) which the SHO/Flex haven't seen, not to mention EcoBoost has been handicapped with AWD in these apps.

The new EcoBoost Explorer, Focus and Fiesta will determine if this is really all hype or not, where the EcoBoost option isn't purely for performance.

 

[marty600]

GM & Ford truly have fantastic powertrains, right now.
Chrylser is a little behind them on the small stuff. If they can't sell product, however, there will be no $$ to keep up these advances, and the japs/germans/koreans win. You don't want to see a nation without an industrial base. That, plus resource-extraction and Agriculture, are what created wallstreet, insurance companies, potent governments, etc, etc.

What is amazing to me is how GM gets the perf. out of the pushrod design, these guys are capable!
Personally, I hate the 'ecoboost" moniker, and I am a Ford guy.
Sounds like something out of hondas mouth...but if it brings back all the import buyers, then its needed (the name--motor is all good)