2008 Nissan Altima 2.5 CVT Failure

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: XS650
Properly done electronics and electric motors aren't a limitation. Present day car CVTs are.


Limitation 1: cost
Limitation 2: weight
Limitation 3: battery life
Limitation 4: space

Why would you want to add so many parts when all you need is a 5-6 speed auto. Why would you need more than a well designed 4 speed? Having 5-6 speed is good enough to keep the engine in a good power band for power and low rpm for efficiency. Variable valve time of all sort (VTEC, VVTi, etc) are widening the power band with good results and reliability, the need for CVT is much lower now.

 

[IndyIan]

I agree that CVT's aren't really needed as much these days with modern automatics. Maybe a CVT is significantly lighter than a 6 spd auto though?
In theory they should be ideal, and in snowmobiles they are but I guess building a beefed up sled CVT for a car doesn't work, as I'm sure they tried it.
Anyways, being an early adopter sometimes hurts I guess, especially when you didn't get any significant benefits.
Ian

 

[XS650]

One of the first uses of variator belt type CVTs in vehicles was the DAF car in the Netherlands in the 1950s. It was a low power car though.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
I agree that CVT's aren't really needed as much these days with modern automatics. Maybe a CVT is significantly lighter than a 6 spd auto though?
In theory they should be ideal, and in snowmobiles they are but I guess building a beefed up sled CVT for a car doesn't work, as I'm sure they tried it.
Anyways, being an early adopter sometimes hurts I guess, especially when you didn't get any significant benefits.
Ian

I think CVTs have lost their advantage ever since 6-speed automatics launched. The 6-speed automatics have even better efficiency than CVTs. With the upcoming dual-clutch transmissions, CVTs may look like dinosaurs.

 

[sciphi]

Give me something to row. Enough of this slushbox nonsense!

Now a 6-7 speed double-clutch transmission mated to a good V8 (are you listening, Hyundai USA?) sounds like the cat's own arse.

 

[rationull]

The problem with dual clutches is I'm pretty sure if I ever got one, laziness would prevail and I doubt I'd shift it manually after the first month of ownership. Hard to say if that's a good thing or not.

 

[BearZDefect]

So, Nissan looks ready to fail with their CVTs? Too bad. I don't like the belt style CVT, but I like the CVT concept of having almost any ratio available to optimize engine use.

I don't like the new automatics with so many gears to shift, seems they are either too busy shifting, or just playing the numbers game.

Here is a comparison I can make from personal experience between Nissan (Jatco) 4sp and Hyundai 5sp automatics:

4-speed automatic: 3rd gear is king. Once you get to third you'll rarely get to 2nd or 1st unless you stop or mash the pedal. Of course, once you get to 40mph or so 4th gear becomes king.

5-speed automatic: 3rd gear royalty is now shared by 3rd and 4th, with a fixed 4-3 downshift speed (unless you mash the pedal). I suppose this is somewhat better that the 4sp, but the programming is otherwise identical - once you hit 5th it becomes king, slowing down only unlocks the TCC like the 4sp does in 4th. Slowing down to a fast creep doesn't shift to 2nd, so you still have a wimpy resume in 3rd unless you mash it hard enough to force a downshift (just like the 4sp).

What do they have in common? The only time you get all gears at the right time is taking off from rest, accelerating up to 50mph or more. When driving in variable speed city traffic they use the torque converter instead, and stay in "king" gear (or king and queen in a 5sp) all the time. I suppose having king and queen is better than just king.

This may be their logic to avoid hunting. But the 5sp will shift 3-4-3-4 repeatedly if you cross that threshold repeatedly. It only takes a 5mph variation to induce this.

My comparison above obviously doesn't apply to all. Honda 4 and 5sp automatics will shift down to 2nd in normal driving. Some will explain this is because their engines are "torqueless wonders."

The 2008 Malibu 2.4 I drove with a 4sp was programmed nicely.

In the end, I prefer a 5sp manual.

 

[Cutehumor]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
At only 60,600 miles, all easy highway driving. I sure hope that this was an isolated incident.

http://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread?&id=399499&postid=4408540#4408540

This person also posted an UOA on this site.


60k miles? powertrain warranty is up? if so, good luck getting Nissan to pay for this. Nissan corporate told my dad to eat it when his 03 Sentra headgasket blew for the second time. 8k out of extended warranty.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Cutehumor

60k miles? powertrain warranty is up? if so, good luck getting Nissan to pay for this.

If you read that thread, he wrote that Nissan agreed to pay for parts and he had to pay for labor.

 

[artificialist]

Originally Posted By: sciphi
Give me something to row. Enough of this slushbox nonsense!

Now a 6-7 speed double-clutch transmission mated to a good V8 (are you listening, Hyundai USA?) sounds like the cat's own arse.

How long do the clutches last, and how much work is requires to replace them?

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Cutehumor

60k miles? powertrain warranty is up? if so, good luck getting Nissan to pay for this.

If you read that thread, he wrote that Nissan agreed to pay for parts and he had to pay for labor.

It still stinks that he had to pay $800 because he was out of warranty by 600 miles.

 

[Cutehumor]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Cutehumor

60k miles? powertrain warranty is up? if so, good luck getting Nissan to pay for this.

If you read that thread, he wrote that Nissan agreed to pay for parts and he had to pay for labor.


Did he have to give up his first born to get Nissan to pay for it?

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Cutehumor

60k miles? powertrain warranty is up? if so, good luck getting Nissan to pay for this.

If you read that thread, he wrote that Nissan agreed to pay for parts and he had to pay for labor.

It still stinks that he had to pay $800 because he was out of warranty by 600 miles.


That seems to be the going rate for dealer service "goodwill" jobs these days. You pay labor, they'll take care of the parts. It's up to the owner to call the 800 numbers to get it. Back in more prosperous days, the dealer would take care of it 100%, calls and all. I went through a trans failure in a 1993 Sentra at just under 61Kmi. The dealer covered it 100% AND gave me a loaner for the 2 weeks. Jatco makes a good product and CVTs like said is OLD technology. There's way less mechanical parts in them as compared to a geared AT as well, so in theory, they should last longer. Why they can't is anyones guess at this point. I've yet to hear of a failed belt and I'd love to know the true issue with that dudes Nissan 2.5 CVT. It's the first issue I've heard of with counless #'s of them on the road. I like them. I like the way my inlaws AWD Rogue drives, unfortunately it will be a while before I'm confident enough financially to make another new car purchase!

Joel

 

[gizzsdad]

Actually, it appears that Nissan's reliability record with the CVT's is pretty good. The Murano, which IIRC was their first widely used CVT has a very good record according to MSN:

http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/Reliability.aspx?year=2003&make=Nissan&model=Murano#Engi

I have found this resource quite good, as it has hit almost all of the few vehicle problems I have expereienced in the last 10 years.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: gizzsdad
Actually, it appears that Nissan's reliability record with the CVT's is pretty good. The Murano, which IIRC was their first widely used CVT has a very good record according to MSN:

http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/Reliability.aspx?year=2003&make=Nissan&model=Murano#Engi

I have found this resource quite good, as it has hit almost all of the few vehicle problems I have expereienced in the last 10 years.


The '03 Murano has iffy reliability in the transmission department, according to the latest CR results.

 

[GMFan]

*Hugs manual transmission and says "from my cold dead hands."*

 

[saaber1]

Originally Posted By: rationull
The problem with dual clutches is I'm pretty sure if I ever got one, laziness would prevail and I doubt I'd shift it manually after the first month of ownership. Hard to say if that's a good thing or not.


Have had my 6 speed DSG (VW GTI) for seven months now and I use manual mode all the time except when I need my hands free for something important like drinking coffee ha ha or when stuck in traffic.

The manual mode is just so much more fun and you can keep the revs right where you want them all the time. On downshifts it rev matches perfectly and the shifts are pretty much instantaneous. Have always been a manual tranny guy but this DSG is just incredible.

BTW keeping it in the automatic sport mode is not too bad either although I prefer manual mode. In "s" mode the car lives in the high rpm range and downshifts aggressively. When accelerating hard, it shifts just past the redline. Amazing.

Some old DSG videos/articles for those interested. Hope these links still work.

7 speed dry clutch dsg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVWP7TYhP0c&feature=related

Good article but some mistakes in it http://blogcritics.org/archives/2006/11/08/091620.php

Jason Plato of Fitth Gear test drives the dsg (about 1:15 into the video is where good dsg discussion starts) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EdjEE0edPw

test of manual vs dsg gti http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmMNRQ1GJ3o

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: GMFan
*Hugs manual transmission and says "from my cold dead hands."*


That doesn't always save you. Where you pick up radically on reliability due to the limited complexity ..durability is always in question. You'll typically spend less in swapping it out in 150k-200k ..but that assumes you haven't done an intermediate clutch job along the way.

 

[XS650]

Originally Posted By: JTK
Jatco makes a good product and CVTs like said is OLD technology. There's way less mechanical parts in them as compared to a geared AT as well, so in theory, they should last longer.
Joel


Only if your theory ignores materials science.

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: GMFan
*Hugs manual transmission and says "from my cold dead hands."*


That doesn't always save you. Where you pick up radically on reliability due to the limited complexity ..durability is always in question.


That's true. The 5spd manual in my dad's 1990 full sized 4.3L powered p/u had to be replaced twice because of a failed idler shaft bearing (if I remember the component correctly). Totally granny driven, never towed a thing or hauled anything ridiculously heavy. Also, the kiddies that romp on their new super charged or turbo charged Cobalt SS's tend to blow through their bullet proof manual gearboxes like water. Like anything, not all of them are w/out inherent problems and the good ones will tend to last based on their specific usage. 'Nother thing to keep in mind; The same Jatco CVT used in the OP's 4cyl Nissan is being used in countless Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep vehicles as well. Many of them 4x4/AWD. We'll have more of a reliability sampling as time goes on.