2004 Buick Regal traction control system.

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Hi,

My Buick (2004 Regal) is fitted with a traction control system.
I thought TCS would help on snow/ice but now I'm not so sure any more
dunno.gif
. There's one inch of ice on the back alley. The alley goes slightly upwards making it fairly easy to spin the tires. The "low traction" light goes on but that's it. No improvement!

My question is: what should the TCS really do?

tia
 
I rented a Grand Am a few years ago and this is what I found:

With the traction control turned on, on pavement, the engine would suddenly lose power if the tires were to slip. ie. It would limit power until the tires stopped slipping. If your tires aren't up to the job I don't think anything will help you.

Does your system apply the brakes to spinning wheels or cut power output?

Steve
 
quote:

Does your system apply the brakes to spinning wheels or cut power output?

I wish I knew! I've searched the web but Buick and Traction and Control are keywords in every car salesman's page!
 
On my 99 Grand Prix GTP it cuts the power if the TCS light comes on, and boy do I really feel it when it does kick on!!
grin.gif

The boost goes up but the car doesn't..LOL
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Traction control does not make the tires grow chains. Ice has a coefficient of friction of about 0, so TC cant make it stickier.

Im not sure how the GM TC works, but I know Nissan titans have VDC limited slip which applies the brakes to the slipping rear wheel so the other can dig in and push.
 
SOURCE

quote:

Traction Control
By Scott Memmer

Some of the biggest advances in automotive technology in the past 10 years have come in the area of safety. Spurred by improvements in microprocessor speed, miniaturization, and software development, the automobile continues to evolve. In addition to telematics-based services like OnStar, digital satellite radio and in-car e-mail, recent advances in braking technology have led to shorter stopping distances and increased control while driving in inclement conditions.

Traction control is yet another safety development that has reached the automobile during this period. A popular feature on many vehicles, traction control offers drivers the benefit of space-age electronics that improve a car's contact with the road.

But what is traction control, and how does it work?

In this month's Focus on Safety, we'll take a look at the inner workings of this cutting-edge technology and also discuss the ways it improves your driving experience and enhances safety.

When you first hear the term "traction control," you might think it has something to do with traction and control. "Duh," you're saying; "isn't that a little obvious?" Well, maybe, maybe not. The word traction refers, in general, to your car's ability to maintain adhesive friction between the vehicle (specifically, your tires) and the pavement. And yet there are different kinds of traction. For instance, there's one kind of traction when we brake, another when we accelerate, and still another when we turn. Which kind of traction are we referring to here?

Traction control deals specifically with lateral (front-to-back) loss of friction during acceleration. In other words, when your car accelerates from a dead stop, or speeds up while passing another vehicle, traction control works to ensure maximum contact between the road surface and your tires, even under less-than-ideal road conditions. For example, a wet or icy road surface will significantly reduce the friction (traction) between your tires and the pavement. And since your tires are the only part of your car that actually touches the ground, any resulting loss of friction can have serious consequences.

Traction control is part of a series of three braking technology developments that began appearing in vehicles in the mid-eighties. (Note: Many German vehicle manufacturers call traction control by its original German name: ASR traction control. ASR stands for "Acceleration Slip Regulation." It's the same technology we're talking about here, but with a fancier name that most Americans have never heard of.) In chronological order, these developments are: anti-lock brakes, aka ABS (1978), traction control (1985), and stability control (1995). All three technologies come from the laboratories of Robert Bosch Company in Germany, and all address the issue of improving contact (traction) between your car's tires and the road.

Traction control works at the opposite end of the scale from ABS -- dealing with acceleration rather than deceleration. Still, since many of the same principles apply to both systems, it might be best to visualize it as sort of ABS in reverse. ABS works by sensing slippage at the wheels during braking, and continually adjusting braking pressure to ensure maximum contact between the tires and the road. You can actually hear the system working (a grinding sound) and feel it (the pedal pulsing).

For a more in-depth view of ABS, please read:

Fixing Antilock Brakes

The Attack on Anti-Lock Brakes

As we mentioned above, ABS and traction control operate similarly. In fact, the ABS control unit is the basic "building block" for traction control and stability control. By adding modules and sensors, the system can be expanded to include these newer technologies.

In the case of traction control, the basic ABS system -- as well as other components in the vehicle -- requires some modification. To begin with, the old-style accelerator cable is typically replaced by an electronic drive-by-wire connection (although some older systems still use a mechanical accelerator cable), meaning the mechanical hook-up between the accelerator pedal and the throttle ceases to exist. Instead, a sensor converts the position of the accelerator pedal into an electrical signal, which the control unit (similar to the one used in ABS) uses to generate a control voltage. The standard ABS hydraulic modulator is also expanded to include a traction control component.

All these parts work together to activate the traction control system.

Let's say you're at a stoplight on wet pavement. The light turns green and you press too firmly on the accelerator pedal. There is slick asphalt under your tires and the wheels begin to spin. The traction control system instantaneously kicks in, sensing that the wheels have begun to slip. Within a fraction of a second, this data is fed back to the control unit, which adjusts throttle input and applies braking force to slow the wheels (some older systems also retarded engine spark). The wheels are thus prevented from spinning and the car maintains maximum traction.

It's really that simple. Again, think of it as ABS in reverse.

Traction control is available on a wide selection of vehicles, including some economy cars like the Chevy Cavalier, Saturn S Series and the Ford Focus. Virtually all the major makers, including DaimlerChrysler, BMW, Ford, GM, Saab, Volvo, Lexus, Infiniti, Volkswagen, Audi and Porsche, offer traction control on one or more models. You can check the vehicle detail pages on Edmunds.com to see if traction control is offered on a vehicle you're considering buying.





[ January 16, 2005, 06:20 PM: Message edited by: Mike ]
 
quote:

Does your system apply the brakes to spinning wheels or cut power output?

It seems to be using the brakes. But only at a fairly high rpm. If I go easy on the throttle and still lose traction I could spin the tires all day!
 
Nice, but what happens when only one wheel spins ?
On my Buick, TCS does a hard brake and release on the spinning wheel like once a second. This is hardly enough. Since I had ice under the wheels a better approach would have been to gently brake the spinning wheel untill the other one started moving.
Or locking the differential gear...
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I think the traction control (ASR) system on yours is the same on my 02 Camaro, both GM vehicles. The article did explain everything, but I think is a little too long for what you really need to know. All the TCS does in a nutshell is try to keep all four wheels spinning at the same speed. It does this through being able to brake a wheel individually and by backing off the throttle on you. Have you ever noticed the gas pedal push back on your foot when the system says it's active? There's some tolerance, in that the wheels can spin some. But when the difference exceeds a certain amount it then activates the brakes and may back off the trottle.
I have to say it's really a great system. I've tried to swing the rear end out on wet pavement, and with the power I have I know I would've done a 360. With TCS, as soon as the system kicks in it straightens your trajectory out. However it does become a hinderance on snow and ice when you can't turn it off and you need throttle and wheel speed to move. I had a Buick rental last year and ended up driving back in a big snowstorm from MD to CT, took 9 hrs, but that car went awesome in the snow, like 2-3" on the roads. Probably due to the snow tires on it, but I was doing 40-50mph where everyone else was doing 25-30mph, trying to spin and slide the car and I couldn't do it.
 
I think you may have a misconception of what TCS is. You think it should give you traction to go where you can't go and thats not what its for. Its to help you from losing control of the vehicle from the spinning your tire(s) when they lose traction, not give you more traction in poor traction conditions. Your Buick is FWD and there is no GM FWD with a limited slip front axle so if one tire spins in ice, you are not going to go anywhere until its gains traction.
 
If you are running the stock tires, change them. I believe they use Goodyear Eagle LS tires. They don't have much traction in the dry....trust me, they weren't that good of a tire on the Sebring I drove and they were noisy! I'm suprised the TCS doesn't have an active light. When we had our Windstar, it had traction control that was really really active. The light could pulsate... that's how active it was. My father got one wheel on the street car track in San Fran. and it made the van crawl up that wet street with no problems. It transferred the power to the wheel that wasn't on the rail. You could see the light go bright and dim because sometimes the tires would bite a dry spot and grip but it was very interesting. It made my father glad to know how well it worked. The Windstar used a ABS brake controlled system, similar to the one on your Buick.
 
All of the GM traction control modules I am aware of are part of the ABS brake ellectronic brake control module. I am assumeing that they rely mostly on ABS and retard the throttle! I am thinking that they are just trying to keep you from geting side ways if they can. It does not have awd of anything like that so it is not a traction adder at all!
 
My 1996 Ford Contour with traction control can apply the brake to the spinning wheel in order to transfer power to the other wheel.

It can also cut back on the throttle with a device that the throttle cable runs through that works by lengthening the throttle cable to cut back on the throttle.

The traction control/ABS are integrated on this car. If I recall correctly, the throttle device is connected to the ABS module. If not, the throttle device connects to a traction control module that is in turn connected to the ABS module.

There is no connection to the powertrain control module.
 
TCS, VSC, etc. pretty worthless, especially up here. Even AWD Audis and Subarus spin off into the abyss in snow/ice. They think AWD will save them. Nothing will save you on ice except studded tires or chains.

Get some good snow tires, drive SLOW and follow three simple rules when driving on ice.

1. Do not touch the brakes.
2. Do not touch the brakes.
3. Do not touch the brakes.
 
quote:

Originally posted by brianl703:
My 1996 Ford Contour with traction control can apply the brake to the spinning wheel in order to transfer power to the other wheel.

Not gonna happen on an open differential. All "traction control" does is drop the torque going to the slipping wheel(s). Period.

Dave
 
quote:

Originally posted by Grossomotto:
TCS, VSC, etc. pretty worthless, especially up here. Even AWD Audis and Subarus spin off into the abyss in snow/ice.

It's not the Audis & Subies going off the road, it's the nut behind the wheel. We've got one Sube with viscous center diff & one w/ VDC (Subaru's Vehicle Dynamics Control, never thought I'd have that much fun testing software
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). Wouldn't trade 'em for the world.

Dave
 
quote:

Originally posted by n8wvi:
Not gonna happen on an open differential. All "traction control" does is drop the torque going to the slipping wheel(s). Period.

I'm not quite sure how to respond.

If a wheel is spinning and the brake is applied ONLY TO THAT WHEEL, power will be transferred to the wheel which has more traction and is not moving because of that.

It doesn't matter whether it's an open differential or a limited slip.

At least, this is my understanding of how differentials operate. Do you know something different?
 
quote:

Originally posted by n8wvi:

quote:

Originally posted by brianl703:
My 1996 Ford Contour with traction control can apply the brake to the spinning wheel in order to transfer power to the other wheel.

Not gonna happen on an open differential. All "traction control" does is drop the torque going to the slipping wheel(s). Period.


By the way, here's what the 1996 Ford Contour shop manual says, which supports what I said and seems to contradict what you're saying:

The traction control system operates as follows:

l System functions by transferring torque from the spinning wheel to the wheel with the most traction.

l This is achieved by applying the brake at the spinning wheel through the hydraulic control unit or reducing the throttle opening.

l Traction control braking and throttle control occur at vehicle speeds up to 50 km/h (30 mph).

l At vehicle speeds above 50 km/h (30 mph), only throttle limiting control is used.
 
FWIW, here's the description of the traction control system on my 2000 Monte Carlo 3.8L:

Your vehicle is equipped with a Traction Control System that limits wheel spin. This is especially useful in slippery road conditions. The system operates only if it senses that one or both of the front wheels are spinning or beginning to lose traction. When this happens, the system reduces engine power and may also upshift the transaxle and apply the front brakes to limit wheel spin.
 
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