Yeah, the intake manifold isn't even made of metal on this engine. No need for coolant to go through it.
Can we see a picture IN the oil fill hole?
Can we see a picture IN the oil fill hole?
2003 Saturn ION Sludge
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Just what I was thinking. This problem, by the way, is the reason that I open my oil filler every time I check the oil. I examine inside carefully, with a flashlight. Mechanical defect related sludge will never have a chance to sneak up on me (knock on wood...). I'll be off for diagnostic work at the slightest sign of discoloration.
Dang, Polk!
You Da MANN!!!
Reminds me of My Cousin Vinny..
The quintessential Gambini:
"No one, but NO one pulls the wool over the eyes of a Gambini.. Especially THIS one!!"
You Da MANN!!!
The quintessential Gambini:
"No one, but NO one pulls the wool over the eyes of a Gambini.. Especially THIS one!!"
Thank you all for the great replies. Let me try to answer the questions that have been raised:
-The receipts state that 5w30 was used for the oil changes, but brand was not specified. Probably whatever was cheapest in bulk.
-I believe this is a Dexcool car. I will check the manual later to confirm.
-The PCV valve has not been changed. Other than regular oil changes, I don't think any maintenance service have been done to this car - just warranty repairs. I'll take a look at it later today. brianl703, are you sure this engine doesn't have a pcv?
-This car has the automatic transmission. It has been a problem since she bought the car. She drives manual, but went for an auto car this time. I bet this is her last auto!
-I cannot take a picture inside te oil fill hole because there appears to be a metal shroud just inside the fill hole preventing you from seeing the valvetrain (dumb). After I take it to the dealer and collect an oil sample, I will probably pull the valve cover to get a closer look at the scene in there. I'll post pics.
The suspension knocking could be the sway bar bushings. I believe that she has had them replaced under warranty already(forgot about that). I hope it is not the control arm bushings - I replaced them on my integra in my garage with mostly hand tools, and that was a rough job. Bless the sawzall. I will try to inspect the bushings a little later today. The suspension is hitting very hard though - it feels like the struts are done. I think this car is just melting down.
Again, thank you all for the replies! As I gather more information, I'll post it up with pictures.
-The receipts state that 5w30 was used for the oil changes, but brand was not specified. Probably whatever was cheapest in bulk.
-I believe this is a Dexcool car. I will check the manual later to confirm.
-The PCV valve has not been changed. Other than regular oil changes, I don't think any maintenance service have been done to this car - just warranty repairs. I'll take a look at it later today. brianl703, are you sure this engine doesn't have a pcv?
-This car has the automatic transmission. It has been a problem since she bought the car. She drives manual, but went for an auto car this time. I bet this is her last auto!
-I cannot take a picture inside te oil fill hole because there appears to be a metal shroud just inside the fill hole preventing you from seeing the valvetrain (dumb). After I take it to the dealer and collect an oil sample, I will probably pull the valve cover to get a closer look at the scene in there. I'll post pics.
The suspension knocking could be the sway bar bushings. I believe that she has had them replaced under warranty already(forgot about that). I hope it is not the control arm bushings - I replaced them on my integra in my garage with mostly hand tools, and that was a rough job. Bless the sawzall. I will try to inspect the bushings a little later today. The suspension is hitting very hard though - it feels like the struts are done. I think this car is just melting down.
Again, thank you all for the replies! As I gather more information, I'll post it up with pictures.
It has an orifice in the camshaft (valve) cover that serves the purpose of the PCV valve. It is not (as far as I can determine from various parts websites) a separately replaceable part, and there is nothing in the maintenance schedule about replacing or otherwise maintaining a PCV valve .
However, it is still possible for it to be plugged, which could result in sludge. In that case I expect you would need to clean it with a solvent such as throttle body cleaner.
Here is what the manual says. (I couldn't find any information about how to clean the orifice or what to do if it's plugged up):
Crankcase Ventilation System Description
General Description
A crankcase ventilation system is used to consume crankcase vapors in the combustion process instead of venting them to atmosphere. Fresh air from the intake system is supplied to the crankcase, mixed with blow by gases and then passed through a calibrated orifice into the intake manifold.
Operation
The primary control is through the positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) orifice which meters the flow at a rate depending on inlet vacuum. The PCV orifice is an integral part of the camshaft cover. If abnormal operating conditions occur, the system is designed to allow excessive amounts of blow by gases to back flow through the crankcase vent into the intake system to be consumed by normal combustion.
Results of Incorrect Operation
A plugged orifice may cause the following conditions:
Rough idle
Stalling or slow idle speed
Oil leaks
Sludge in engine
A leaking orifice may cause the following conditions:
Rough idle
Stalling
High idle speed
However, it is still possible for it to be plugged, which could result in sludge. In that case I expect you would need to clean it with a solvent such as throttle body cleaner.
Here is what the manual says. (I couldn't find any information about how to clean the orifice or what to do if it's plugged up):
Crankcase Ventilation System Description
General Description
A crankcase ventilation system is used to consume crankcase vapors in the combustion process instead of venting them to atmosphere. Fresh air from the intake system is supplied to the crankcase, mixed with blow by gases and then passed through a calibrated orifice into the intake manifold.
Operation
The primary control is through the positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) orifice which meters the flow at a rate depending on inlet vacuum. The PCV orifice is an integral part of the camshaft cover. If abnormal operating conditions occur, the system is designed to allow excessive amounts of blow by gases to back flow through the crankcase vent into the intake system to be consumed by normal combustion.
Results of Incorrect Operation
A plugged orifice may cause the following conditions:
Rough idle
Stalling or slow idle speed
Oil leaks
Sludge in engine
A leaking orifice may cause the following conditions:
Rough idle
Stalling
High idle speed
I don't believe it completely, I'm pretty my 9-5 would still rape it's oil if it had a 5 quart sump instead 4.
Possibly, but a 9-5 is turbocharged and an ION isn't.
Dexcool coolant leak would have white froth under the oil fill cap.
This just has normal sludge and if it has the oil separator there, it might not reflect the true condition under the valve cover.
It could be just an area where oil flow is not occuring and therfore some varnish and sludge can collect.
Without taking the valve cover off, you really can't state whether or not there is sludge in that engine.
A lot of engines I see will have some crud around where the oil filler cap and deflector is there but the valvetrain will be sparkling clean.
This just has normal sludge and if it has the oil separator there, it might not reflect the true condition under the valve cover.
It could be just an area where oil flow is not occuring and therfore some varnish and sludge can collect.
Without taking the valve cover off, you really can't state whether or not there is sludge in that engine.
A lot of engines I see will have some crud around where the oil filler cap and deflector is there but the valvetrain will be sparkling clean.
Well, I pulled the breather hose coming out of the valve cover and it was very clean inside, so I don't think that is the problem. Thanks brianl703.
BlazerLT: What first set me off was the deep red color of the oil on the dipstick. Didn't look normal to me, so I still think there is a problem. Your advise is sound - I will pull the valve cover when time permits. Perhaps next weekend.
Hopefully, we'll get the oil changed Mon or Tues and send the sample off to Blackstone for analysis. Do you all think I should have a Dyson analysis done?
I also did confirm that this is a dexcool car. My girlfriend does not ever remember having coolant added, and it is at the full line on the reservior.
BlazerLT: What first set me off was the deep red color of the oil on the dipstick. Didn't look normal to me, so I still think there is a problem. Your advise is sound - I will pull the valve cover when time permits. Perhaps next weekend.
Hopefully, we'll get the oil changed Mon or Tues and send the sample off to Blackstone for analysis. Do you all think I should have a Dyson analysis done?
I also did confirm that this is a dexcool car. My girlfriend does not ever remember having coolant added, and it is at the full line on the reservior.
38,000 miles on a 2003 model year vehicle raises the possibility of the vehicle being used primarily for shorter, city trips. If the thermostat is “stuck open” in the vehicle, it can cause the problems that you are experiencing. When the thermostat is stuck open, it will take much longer for the engine to warm-up, or in your case (possibly), not warm-up at all during short trips. Any accumulated condensation would not even stand a chance of being burned off, thus possibly causing the “reddish” buildup you are experiencing.
I wonder if they changed it with transmission fluid by mistake?
Hey, the hoses are right beside each other at the shop. Some moron won't even look at what is coming out the hose when he is filling it up.
Get a sample and have it analysed.
I can almost bet you have tranny fluid in the engine. I advise you to not drive it at all until you know.
And don't take it back to the dealer where they can swap in new oil and get rid of the evidence.
Wow, that looks rather bad for the milage! You really need to get to the bottom of this. I would take a sample of that oil for your own independent UOA. I would also have the lab hold on to the sample. Another sample should be held on to buy you. You should lable and seal the spare sample and get the mechanic and your signiture on the seal along with the date (chain of evidence b.s.)!!
The pics don't look like the kind of sludge caused by antifreeze in the oil. My guess is that either your girlfriend's previous boyfriend abused it (since you're having transmission trouble too and GM is known for their solid transmissions) or it didn't get the claimed maintenance. Have not heard of this problem brfore from the Ecotec.
My mom has a 2004 Malibu Classic with the Ecotec. Her drive to work and back is 8 miles round trip. On average she drives 150 miles a week. But I haven't seen anything like this in it when I change the oil, which I do about every 4 months with the Exxon Superflo 5W-30 I got on rebate.
Oh by the way...
Since this is an Ecotec, you can check for sludge in the oil filter housing.
A 32mm socket takes it off. It's the big plastic cap with the hex on it on the right side of the engine, sort of under the intake manifold.
Since this is an Ecotec, you can check for sludge in the oil filter housing.
A 32mm socket takes it off. It's the big plastic cap with the hex on it on the right side of the engine, sort of under the intake manifold.
As an innocent bystander here, reading this conversation, I'm wondering what the procedure is for servicing a plugged PCV on the GM Ecotech engine?
The manual doesn't say. It's a part of the camshaft cover. I would expect that it could be cleaned out with solvent and a piece of wire or a toothpick, if it were indeed clogged.
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