A 20k Corolla is more reliable than a 50K BMW.
If the oil is good and does its job, who cares how much it costs?
'17 Toyota Highlander V6 3.5L 2GR-FKS - SuperTech Advanced Full Synth 0W-20 10,368 miles
- Thread starter Soobs
- Start date
If the oil is good and does its job, who cares how much it costs?
With many oils getting hard to find at WM these days, I'll add this one to my list of acceptable 0W-20s. So far I like Mobil 1 0W-20 AFE, Penzoil Platinum 0W-20 and now this one too. Thanks for posting this outstanding UOA.
Just reading through some of this thread -
1. I had, for a few years, gone with the higher mileage OCIs, primarily using Mobil 1; in my 2006 Ridgeline and then in my new 2014 Tundra. I wasn't exactly comfortable with this, but all the cool guys at BITOG said it was ok.
2. A few years ago, I bought a 2011 Sequoia with 65k miles. Barely broken in, right? Had a history of 10k mile oil changes. Well, about 20k into ownership, this thing is drinking oil. Before 100k miles. I was adding 2-3 quarts between 7-8k mile oil changes. This is not a cheap vehicle to change the oil in, even at home, with Mobil 1. 8 quarts of oil and then add 2-3 quarts over 7-8k miles? It disappeared at a Toyota dealer one day....
3. More and more evidence is being brought forward, mostly by seasoned, honest, highly skilled Toyota technicians who are flaming the 10k mile oil changes. Toyota doesn't recommend "10k mile oil changes" EXCEPT for the rare instance you meet the "normal" driving behaviors, which hardly anyone does. I actually meet the conditions driving my RX350, but I choose to keep the oil changes to 5-6k miles in it even.
I've gone to 5k mile oil changes in my Tundra and in my LX570. I've switched to Kirkland oil. No, not "the best" but it's been doing fine in the Tundra for 50k+ miles, I add nearly zero make-up oil over 5k miles and I expect no problems.
Here's a recent video from one of those respected Toyota techs, begging people to not fall for the 10k mile oil changes any longer-
1. I had, for a few years, gone with the higher mileage OCIs, primarily using Mobil 1; in my 2006 Ridgeline and then in my new 2014 Tundra. I wasn't exactly comfortable with this, but all the cool guys at BITOG said it was ok.
2. A few years ago, I bought a 2011 Sequoia with 65k miles. Barely broken in, right? Had a history of 10k mile oil changes. Well, about 20k into ownership, this thing is drinking oil. Before 100k miles. I was adding 2-3 quarts between 7-8k mile oil changes. This is not a cheap vehicle to change the oil in, even at home, with Mobil 1. 8 quarts of oil and then add 2-3 quarts over 7-8k miles? It disappeared at a Toyota dealer one day....
3. More and more evidence is being brought forward, mostly by seasoned, honest, highly skilled Toyota technicians who are flaming the 10k mile oil changes. Toyota doesn't recommend "10k mile oil changes" EXCEPT for the rare instance you meet the "normal" driving behaviors, which hardly anyone does. I actually meet the conditions driving my RX350, but I choose to keep the oil changes to 5-6k miles in it even.
I've gone to 5k mile oil changes in my Tundra and in my LX570. I've switched to Kirkland oil. No, not "the best" but it's been doing fine in the Tundra for 50k+ miles, I add nearly zero make-up oil over 5k miles and I expect no problems.
Here's a recent video from one of those respected Toyota techs, begging people to not fall for the 10k mile oil changes any longer-
I'd only do 10k mile drains with a very robust oil like Amsoil or Mobil 1 EP or HPL. I like spending a bit more for an oil built to handle longer drains. Your run-of-the-mill synthetics may not keep the engine clean enough over longer drains.
Do you know what brand was used for the 10k mile drains?
No, I didn't. I skipped through it.
I was asking you about your vehicle:
"Had a history of 10k mile oil changes."
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No, I didn't know. I remember the CarFax showed mostly oil changes at local tire stores/quick service center type facilities.
Ok thanks. Just curious. Good candidate for this:
Engine Cleaner
HPL Engine Cleaner is designed for those who wish to clean deposits in their engines left behind from commodity type lubricants that are designed to “meet the spec.” Engine Cleaner is specially formulated and fortified with detergents and dispersants providing safe cleaning in the engine. When...
www.advlubrication.com
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That'd do it. The "bare minimum" API approval certainly isn't adequate for extended drains. There's a whole other thread on this topic, and the video you shared, in the PCMO section:
Why 10K Miles Oil change may not be good!
Here's a video re why 10K miles (16K Km) is not good. Sorry Video is unavailable! o_O
bobistheoilguy.com
Looks great. Keep doing what you're doing.
or
If you switch too an oil that costs twice as much (Amsoil etc) you could extend oci if you so desire.
or
If you switch too an oil that costs twice as much (Amsoil etc) you could extend oci if you so desire.
That has nothing to do with anything unless your entered in a "who has the cleanest engine at teardown" contest.
I've never changed the oil in my Toyota in less than 10k miles. I've gone as long as 18k miles. Yes there is varnish. That's meaningless. I've posted the pictures here before. I've posted its 13 UOA report results here too.
I've had this 2007 Toyota FJ Cruiser with gasoline 4.0L V61GR-FE w/DOHC and VVTi for almost 14 yrs. It is my daily driver. Engine has 220k miles. Its never burned or leaked oil. Its never throw a code or been in a shop. My gas mileage is the same today as it was when new.
VVT is still working perfectly. No stuck rings. Go figure?
Owners manual says to change it every 5k. What a waste that would be.
Great report. Nothing wrong with using Supertech oil and I suppose the only question I have is this - Is the 20k version worth the extra bucks over the 10k? No one seems to have any evidence from a chemistry perspective. I'll also venture to say that this OP's engine will last a long time doing what he's doing currently.
As we all know... "Marketing" works. Just more on some than others.
As we all know... "Marketing" works. Just more on some than others.
As long as it is API certified and is the proper weight, i doesn't matter as per the manual...
You can run Amsoil and have the engine outlast the ownership of the vehicle or
you can run Supertech and have the engine outlast the ownership of the vehicle. Myself I want the Official Oil of NASCAR in my engine cause it makes the vehicle a chick magnet.
you can run Supertech and have the engine outlast the ownership of the vehicle. Myself I want the Official Oil of NASCAR in my engine cause it makes the vehicle a chick magnet.
Great report, keep up with the regular maintenance and it will last a long time. Excellent low stress engine.
from the maintenance manual of my.2018 tacoma for all those who use the term “sever service” for normal driving conditions.
Special Operating Conditions
In addition to standard maintenance items, the maintenance log indicates services that should be performed on vehicles that are driven under especially demanding conditions. These “special operating conditions” and their required maintenance items are clearly indicated in each chart.
NOTE:
You should perform these additional maintenance services only if the majority of your driving is done under the special operating conditions indicated. If you only occasionally drive under these circumstances, it is not necessary to perform the additional services.
5,000 miles or 6 months
Check installation of driver’s floor mat Inspect and adjust all fluid levels1 Inspect wiper blades
Rotate tires
Visually inspect brake linings/drums and brake pads/discs
here is where special operating conditions are spelled out. And the majority of driving must fall under this.
Driving on dirt roads or dusty roads:
Inspect ball joints and dust covers Inspect drive shaft boots (4WD) Inspect engine air filter
Inspect steering linkage and boots Lubricate propeller shaft (4WD)4 Re-torque propeller shaft bolt4 Replace engine oil and oil filter2 Tighten nuts and bolts on chassis and body
Driving while towing, using a car-top carrier, or heavy vehicle loading6:
Lubricate propeller shaft (4WD)4 Re-torque propeller shaft bolt4 Replace engine oil and oil filter2 Tighten nuts and bolts on chassis and body
Repeated trips of less than five miles in temperatures below 32°F / 0°C: 2
Replace engine oil and oil filter
Extensive idling and/or low speed driving for a long distance such as police, taxi or door-to-door delivery use: 2
Replace engine oil and oil filter
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Thanks for the video. I hadn't seen this video from CarCareNut yet, but I've certainly watched many of his videos in the past. Funny enough (maybe not funny enough) I just changed the oil again on the Highlander today. This OCI was 10,007 miles (6 months since previous change) and I'm at 80k miles total now. For now I'm not burning anything. It was another run of SuperTech Advance 0W-20 and I sent off a sample again to Blackstone for analysis + TBN this time. The latest price on SuperTech didn't make much sense to me so I switched to Havoline Pro DS 0W-20 for this oil change. This video and your experience are pretty compelling to shorten up my OCI. I may consider switching to 5,000 mile OCIs. In any event, I'll post the UOA whenever it's done.
In regards to point #3 in your post we covered how Toyota defines normal and special operating conditions for this year/model. Bryanccfsher posted this again as well in the post above. Our driving doesn't come anywhere close to meeting "special operating conditions." Whether that matters or not in longterm trouble-free maintenance I don't know. I think you'll be able to find people with high mileage engines that have done 10k OCIs with no issues too. The question is will you find less of them with trouble-free engines vs. folks that did 5k OCIs... Maybe?
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Hard to say, but in this world I imagine most things are marketing bologna. I just did another oil change today and a 5qt jug of SuperTech Advance 0W-20 was $26.47. Not worth it. I switched to a 6qt box of Havoline Pro DS 0W-20 for $22.97 this time.
Thanks for the info!
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Varnish isn't meaningless, and if it's accruing in areas you can see, it's likely more built-up in the ring land area. However, typically the impact on performance is so small and so gradual, it's transparent to the owner.
If it doesn't matter to you, that's fine, but universally panning it as meaningless because of your single anecdote is silly. It can, and does, cause issues, particularly in engines that are prone to experiencing problems related to it, like earlier Toyota engines that suffered from inferior oil drainback holes in the ring land area for example, or Honda VCM engines where the back head turns to varnish city and then it starts throwing codes and eating oil because the rings bind in their lands. Varnish can be a harbinger of future problems. It can also be of little consequence if its development is slow and its occurrence is in a design that's tolerant. Ultimately, "it depends".
Varnish is "meaningless" was probably too harsh. I should have said "it depends" that's ambiguous and more pleasing.
Just because it's on the internet doesn't make it true.
Sorry that my vehicles and thousands of others here on BITOG are throwing a monkey wrench into the "5k or less oci or else" theory that "The Critic" and others are trying to sell.
I check/test things for myself and get the firsthand evidence. When my evidence is to the the contrary, then comments like "The Critics" lead me to provide my experience so folks might do a little critical thinking.
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