15 dollars a hour?

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Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
dishdude,

Do you work for a company that is unionized ?

SEIU is know for being in the service industry.


Some offices in my company are unionized, however none of the ones I work with are. Interestingly enough, I currently have a project in the Chicago area that is a union only site. Since my techs are not union, I had to sub the project out to a company that is unionized.

It actually worked out, I recognize the revenue and since my backlog is currently pretty big I am able to utilize my guys on other projects.
 
Originally Posted By: sleddriver
I'm going to take a crack at this from a different perspective. Raising the min. wage is going after the wrong end. It's a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself. It's also the easy way out....for the politicians. After all, they've created this mess in the first place and do an excellent job of FOGGING their actions. Much like the frightened little man pulling the levers in The Wizard of Oz.

Remember: The humans were much too afraid of the "image" before them to think clearly. But Toto wasn't buying it. He smelled a rat and followed his instincts: The "Wiz" was nothing but a mirage, a constructed image. And a fake one at that.

Let's focus on the little guy and his needs: Food, transportation, shelter, employment, and electricity to start with. Not necessarily in that order...

Everything the little guy buys got there on the back of a truck. Even if shipped by rail, it was still delivered to the store by a truck. Most likely a diesel truck. What recently happened to the price of diesel? Very strict EPA mandate caused it to sky-rocket. Even higher than premium gasoline. Result? Everything delivered by truck, including your most recent Amazon purchase, also went up. Made the meanie-greenies happy by elevating their "enlightened vision", but the cost of living just went up for everyone, especially the little guy.

What happened to the cost of meat for the little guy's hamburger and pork for his tacos? Corn went into the gas tank as a replacement for MTBE. Why? EPA mandate. All livestock is grain-fed, from chickens to pigs to steers. Cost of corn just went up. Money was great, so farmers started planting everything with corn. Gubmint + pols + EPA + meanie-greenies were estastic. Little guy? Not so much.

What about the cost of little guy's electricity? Who'd he vote for? The guy who loudly proclaimed "The price of electricity will sky-rocket". Are the meanie-greenies thinking about his e-bill or their Grand Eco Vision? Solar? Wind? Hydrogen? Good. Nuclear, Coal, natural gas: BAD. Not nearly "enlightened" enough for the Visionated. Progress Demands Sacrifice after all and guess who'll be sacrificing?

Forget flying somewhere...little guy can't afford to take his family anywhere. So what about the cost of gasoline so he can get to work? EPA + Feds + meanie-greenies are in on that as well. "The cost of fossil fuels will skyrocket". He wasn't kidding, was he? Remember $4/ga gas...in Texas? How high did it go on the east coast? Califormia? Progress Demands Sacrifice....who's getting sacrificed on the altar of The Grand Vision?

Little guy can also forget sending his kids to college..no way Jose. That dog just won't hunt.

I haven't even mentioned the border flood of illegals and I live in CenTx.

We no longer have a two party system, just sheer chaos. Thus the front-runners popularity. Only politicians, on both sides, are surprised and that's the problem. He's drawing support from all sides, leaving them clueless....go figure. Their numbers are all wrong.

They've raised the cost of EVERYTHING little guy buys for himself & his family and could care less. After all, they don't drive their own cars, much less shop for their own food or fill their cars with gas. They don't even need cars. The govn't provides them with one & a driver! Plus, you, I & little guy pays for it.

These are the very people who vote themselves pay raises each year. Congress & the executive branch is mostly a nest of narcissists and sociopaths, who are in it for the power, control and authority. They get off on it. Nothing but a (leaning) Tower of Babel, always pointing a finger of blame towards someone else when three fingers always point back at them.

How about giving them the middle finger?

A living wage isn't the answer. Neither is Marxism. After all, "A Government Big Enough to Give You Everything You Need is Big Enough to Take Everything You Have."

Haven't they taken enough already? Don't you think it's HIGH time the govn't was once again afraid of its citizens instead of the other way around?

Doing your own thinking doesn't require a formal education. It does require curiosity and questioning though. Remember the old slogan "Question Authority!" Those currently in power need a relentless application of questioning, particularly by those they've used and taken advantage of for decades. The little guy needs to stop and think about this. He's being played for a fool and openly mocked behind his back.

The Pols are the ones who need severe pay cuts, so does the gubmint and the fat they've created. They all need to be on enforced financial diets along with their departments. Imagine "The Biggest Loser: Politician Version". The EPA is out-of-control, has been radicalized and as a result, energy has been politicized. Those are the WORST hands for it to be held in.

Down here, we all live in A/C. And the e-bill is second only to rent, unless you're paying > $200/mo. for phone/cable/internet, but little guy can't really afford that. I'm unable to shop around for electricity because I'm locked into a city monopoly: They own the utility. Due to their Green Vision of the Annointed, they're costing me & everyone else more GREEN. About 18% more. And that'll be going up as more of their "vision" is implemented.

But this is the direct result, the consequences, of politicizing energy. The greenies + govn't is giving little guy the middle finger. It's high time their own guns were seized, turned around and fired upon them. That they are given the middle finger.

The leading candidate is leading because he knows this. He's tapped into little guys frustration and anger...from all sides. And he's not promising to raise minimum wage either, is he? No. He's talking about JOBS! Bringing JOBS back. In order to do that, he's vowing to go after the very thing that caused them to leave in the first place.

Think about it......

"Expecting Congress to clean up the mess they created is like expecting an Arsonist to put out the fire they created" - Thomas Sowell.

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of it's powers to repress dissent, for the Truth is the moral enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the Truth is the greatest enemy of the State" - Joseph Goebbels

"Politics is not about facts. It's about what politicians can get people to believe" - Thomas Sowell



The black community is acting as if this has already happened. Anytime "And the minimum wage will be $15 an hour soon, to make everything more fair" is worked into a Sunday sermon...

We are all screwed.

Where did they get $15 from, anyway? I heard $42 an hour in Boston and also L.A. are what it takes to afford "median" rents in those markets, comfortably.... I also thought $10 was a number that would be a "compromise."

In any case, prices will go up so high if that happens
Shoot, Dunkin Donuts raised prices when NJ forces a Minimum Wage increase, first of $1 from $7.25 to $8.25, and them 13 cents Living Wage adjustment for 2015. I wonder what it will be in 2016..

Maybe.. $15?
smile.gif
 
Fight for $15 and income inequality, CEO salary will be hot topics in election.

The only way to guarantee you will get paid decent is to go to school and learn something that will pay a 'living wage'

OT: I have a relative that charges $500 an hour as a lawyer and can argue a case in the FL Supreme Court. Sure this is an extreme (polar opposite) of minimum wage folks in the USA. Education does pay off (no pun intended) in the long run.
 
Originally Posted By: ls1mike
You know why I don't worry? You pay either way. You can't change it. Some people want to work, some people don't. Some people become rocket scientists, some don't.

So either I pay more for goods and services because of a wage increase, or a I pay more for those on government assistance.
I am not losing any sleep over it.

I don't complain about any of it. I do wish that some of my money did actually go for fixing roads.

As to the rest of it? I don't know how to fix it. Not sure you can. It requires holding people accountable. We are not good at that anymore.



But if you eliminate the government handouts, including corporate welfare, then I can voluntarily pay as much or as little as I want via my spending.

If we continue the system of handouts, the money is confiscated from taxpayers and given to those who vote (or lobby) for a living.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
One of the secrets of these increased minimum wage laws is that often the unions are exempted.


Bingo.
 
The problem with this view is that we no longer have AFDC, we instead have TANF.
There is no longer any long-term entitlement to welfare benefits.
General relief is a pittance and food stamps, WIC and Medicaid are available to everyone on a means-tested basis.
I really can't believe that those low on the economic ladder are really making a conscious choice between working for pay and leisure.
Most of those who depend upon benefits to survive also have a side hussle of some kind going, since these benefits only provide for so much.
 
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Originally Posted By: ls1mike
You know why I don't worry? You pay either way. You can't change it. Some people want to work, some people don't. Some people become rocket scientists, some don't.

So either I pay more for goods and services because of a wage increase, or a I pay more for those on government assistance.
I am not losing any sleep over it.

I don't complain about any of it. I do wish that some of my money did actually go for fixing roads.

As to the rest of it? I don't know how to fix it. Not sure you can. It requires holding people accountable. We are not good at that anymore.



But if you eliminate the government handouts, including corporate welfare, then I can voluntarily pay as much or as little as I want via my spending.

If we continue the system of handouts, the money is confiscated from taxpayers and given to those who vote (or lobby) for a living.

So I see you are vet. Me too. 2 years Army, 11 years Submarines.

That means I want to see every fat fer that has "Sleep Apnea" because they got lazy not get any "Service Connected" disability for it.

It is a slippery slope where do you stop? Where do you start? I don't know. No one does. Do you do a case by case?

Look I am center left/Center right. But I do fine so I don't mind "helping out". I get what I need because I work for it. I don't care what other people do.

Corporate welfare? Well that is a separate issue. Do you let them go overseas and we lose more jobs or can we find a happy medium? Who knows. I sure as [censored] don't and my guess is anyone spending time on BITOG doesn't have all the answers or enough money to run for office so we can only arm chair quarterback.
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
The problem with this view is that we no longer have AFDC, we instead have TANF.
There is no longer any long-term entitlement to welfare benefits.
General relief is a pittance and food stamps, WIC and Medicaid are available to everyone on a means-tested basis.
I really can't believe that those low on the economic ladder are really making a conscious choice between working for pay and leisure.
Most of those who depend upon benefits to survive also have a side hussle of some kind going, since these benefits only provide for so much.
Delusional much? Anyone who works on social services or even home health care will tell you that there are generational families on welfare with mega kids and mothers, daughters etc. living together. They get WIC, no limit, Medicare, foodstamps and welfare. These services do not end as they know the system.

If you know anything you know its true. Or you ate denying it to present your left leaning philosophy, or you simply don't know. I do know. I have been directly involved in 4 states (Pa, NC, MS, and WV...no difference. The slime bags get taken care of.
 
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Originally Posted By: fdcg27

Most of those who depend upon benefits to survive also have a side hussle of some kind going, since these benefits only provide for so much.


Well I've often wondered this too. One of the supermarkets that we go to sometimes has a decent number of people paying with EBT or WIC paper checks. Just an observation from shopping there sometimes due to generally low prices. And so it's pretty easy to see via normal people watching,my hat there is an abundance of smart phones. Also, it's interesting to see the number of late model Cadillacs that these people ride in.

I'm sure it's best to be non-accusational,mane assume that all these folks have rich uncles who pay for their phones and give them rides to the grocery store in order of pay for their groceries on the public dole. It's a fine assumption to think the best of things, however I doubt it is true...
 
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: JHZR2

So... Let's review this again, everyone... Living wage practically speaking is $30/hr. Now how does everyone feel about it? To all those pushing for increased minimum wage, what is the threshold where you realize that fast food, or whatever else, just isn't worth paying that much???


Historically, when the top 1% owns X% of the resources, pitchforks come out. It's said we're close to that point.

Working needs to work better than welfare. We can't seem to touch welfare as it's a political third rail, and those on it have figured out how to wiffle-waffle between state benefits and federal ones, like Social Security Disability, wherever the grass is greener. Instead of pushing them down, pulling workers up corrects the moral discrepancy.

We as a society are also unwilling to correct CEO pay, as the board members that approve such things are an uncrackable old-boy network. So how do we ratchet things closer between the rich and working poor?

So the peasants are restless. Do we parade around feeling good about ourselves because we can obviously point at someone working a cash register and say, many, they must have made some bad life choices to wind up here? And then feel better about ourselves because we have health insurance? When and if they do better, through legal channels, does that shake our world view?


In my best sportscaster voice... "Deflection!!!"

Why not answer my question, since it is valid per the data provided by the state of Pennsylvania? Why wouldn't we define $30, not $15 as the living wage that everyone deserves, so they could be off the public dole? After all, $15 doesn't "work better than welfare" in that it still puts the population squarely in the hands of a reliance on handouts.

So what is fair? And what's fair to those earning $30-35/hr ($60-65k/yr for a full time job, which is around $100k/yr when you include benefits, overhead costs, etc for the employee) once those doing menial tasks for that $30/hr true living wage start receiving it? Are the skilled laborers now worth more, or the same?

We could blame the CEOs and 1% types too. I know I gripe a lot about the value proposition of CEOs who offshore jobs, as well as a lot of other jobs that drive prices disproportionately (lawyers and hospital administration are some of my favorites). But I recall reading about the example of Walmart, who I am generally not a fan of as a store/company (though admittedly they have a good motor oil selection), and whose hiring and employment policies effectively push employees onto the public dole - thereby maximizing corporate profit by ensuring that various benefits' costs are passed to the population at large instead of the company. But I recall reading that if you look at the CEOs salary ($15M as I recall, and spread it across all the employees (around 2M employees in all), each would get $7.50. Hardly enough to go buy that Big Mac meal, let alone ensure a "living wage".

Something I said once before in another thread I think is relevant here too...

Quote:
The problem is that we have all cut off our nose to spite our face. I dont see how a wage slave selling cellphones, painting nails, checking people out at wal mart or flipping burgers can get ahead, regardless of how hard they work.

And since it comes back to the fact that it is what the parents do, when they go work two jobs and arent home, it perpetuates too.

So between the I deserve philosophy and the buy it cheap philosophy, we have overspent, people of meager means have wasted tons of money they didnt have, and we have shipped enough jobs off to the third world that unfortunately Im not sure there is a good solution.

Sure we can say that this is the land of opportunity and we can all get ahead. But with 300+ million people, and only a finite number of good jobs, how will they do it? Ditto when you consider the three BILLION people that WE are enabling to compete for our jobs and resources.

If everyone really was functional and capable and worked hard and made the right choices, the scenario would be the same, as there would be an overabundance of overqualified people vying for whatever work, and it may well be the same wage slave jobs which are the only ones we are adept at creating in mass.

Its far harder than just doing the right parenting or making the right choices. At some level I think the population and the scenario that we ourselves have created is just unsustainable. And that's really unfortunate.
 
Quote:
Well I've often wondered this too. One of the supermarkets that we go to sometimes has a decent number of people paying with EBT or WIC paper checks. Just an observation from shopping there sometimes due to generally low prices. And so it's pretty easy to see via normal people watching,my hat there is an abundance of smart phones. Also, it's interesting to see the number of late model Cadillacs that these people ride in.


Yep. Don't forget they will purchase (separately) alcohol and a carton of cigarettes with cash..... but other 'necessary' food items were paid with EBT and WIC.

God Bless America and the tax payers for supporting this non sense.
 
If you take the federal government out of a lot of it, you'll solve a big portion of the issue.

If you had to get those benefits from your neighbors, the community that knows you and knows if you are gold-bricking it, or really have an issue, how many would be working the system?

The problem is we have a system. People are really not allowed to make value judgments. Since it's a system, there is no benefit for those who deny benefits. Their job doesn't get bigger, they can't "move up" if they can't put on their evaluations that they managed X number of clients and $Y in benefits.

It may be 20+ years since I last wore a uniform, but I still recall going through my laundry list of X soliders in my platoon or company, with Y lines of equipment on my hand receipt worth $Z dollars.

You were measured by how much you managed. Where is the incentive to do more with less when you got "points" for how much was under your command?

So stop sending money to and from DC. Source the money locally and let your local community determine if you need help, or just need to get to work.

Originally Posted By: ls1mike
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Originally Posted By: ls1mike
You know why I don't worry? You pay either way. You can't change it. Some people want to work, some people don't. Some people become rocket scientists, some don't.

So either I pay more for goods and services because of a wage increase, or a I pay more for those on government assistance.
I am not losing any sleep over it.

I don't complain about any of it. I do wish that some of my money did actually go for fixing roads.

As to the rest of it? I don't know how to fix it. Not sure you can. It requires holding people accountable. We are not good at that anymore.



But if you eliminate the government handouts, including corporate welfare, then I can voluntarily pay as much or as little as I want via my spending.

If we continue the system of handouts, the money is confiscated from taxpayers and given to those who vote (or lobby) for a living.

So I see you are vet. Me too. 2 years Army, 11 years Submarines.

That means I want to see every fat fer that has "Sleep Apnea" because they got lazy not get any "Service Connected" disability for it.

It is a slippery slope where do you stop? Where do you start? I don't know. No one does. Do you do a case by case?

Look I am center left/Center right. But I do fine so I mind "helping out". I get what I need because I work for it. I don't care what other people do.

Corporate welfare? Well that is a separate issue. Do you let them go overseas and we lose more jobs or can we find a happy medium? Who knows. I sure as [censored] don't and my guess is anyone spending time on BITOG doesn't have all the answers or enough money to run for office so we can only arm chair quarterback.
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Quote:
Well I've often wondered this too. One of the supermarkets that we go to sometimes has a decent number of people paying with EBT or WIC paper checks. Just an observation from shopping there sometimes due to generally low prices. And so it's pretty easy to see via normal people watching,my hat there is an abundance of smart phones. Also, it's interesting to see the number of late model Cadillacs that these people ride in.


Yep. Don't forget they will purchase (separately) alcohol and a carton of cigarettes with cash..... but other 'necessary' food items were paid with EBT and WIC.

God Bless America and the tax payers for supporting this non sense.



I hate to make assumptions or point fingers, but I encountered this when going for jury duty once. This busted up old convenience store had an ATM outside. There was a line around the corner waiting for the ATM. I asked a cop what the deal was, and he said that benefits had just been loaded into the accounts (which I assume means cash).
 
I suspect there are some (not all, for those with bad reading comprehension or critical reasoning skills) who qualify for benefits because their income is under the table.

If your income is, errr, "non-traditional" it's likely you qualify for all sorts of government aid.
 
Originally Posted By: hatt
Salaries have tanked because you've got almost unlimited immigration coming in replacing workers that were already put out of work when their job was outsourced because of unions an the US's high corporate taxes. No kidding salaries are going down.
Since the unions, by and large, back "our dear leader" denial is their middle name, and it ain't a river in Egypt. The coal miners unions are classic examples of that, but trade with China and uncontrolled borders are not the reason they are hurting, the war on coal is. There's battle here in the People's Republic between the union construction workers who usually back democrats and the open borders democrats, since so much construction work has become non-union and "illegal". It's interesting to watch.
 
Originally Posted By: GMFan
Originally Posted By: qwerty1234
GMfan, how about you go "undercover" and get a job at Burger King for 3 months? I'm grateful to be working beyond fast food but you are the exact type of customer I hated serving fries to.


Go back and read my post. My entire argument is that how can a Beuracrat mandate one specific industry is paid $15/hr while ignoring all others? How can a McDonalds compete with a Pizzeria across the street if the pizzeria can pay workers 50%? Remember that most fast food restaurants are owned by franchisers. Anyone who doesn't see that this is a witch hunt against the fast food industry isn't seeing the whole picture. That is mob rule in my book.

Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: GMFan
We do not have a democracy when a few hundred disgruntled workers demand $15/hr with picket signs and yell the loudest.


Being able to petition the government about one's grievances is pretty democratic.


Picket all you want. What I meant to say is that we do not have a democracy when specific industries are targeted simply because they make a profit and have deep pockets. That is mob mentality.
And they serve food the Ivy League elite would "rather" they we the sheep not eat.
 
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Quote:
Well I've often wondered this too. One of the supermarkets that we go to sometimes has a decent number of people paying with EBT or WIC paper checks. Just an observation from shopping there sometimes due to generally low prices. And so it's pretty easy to see via normal people watching,my hat there is an abundance of smart phones. Also, it's interesting to see the number of late model Cadillacs that these people ride in.


Yep. Don't forget they will purchase (separately) alcohol and a carton of cigarettes with cash..... but other 'necessary' food items were paid with EBT and WIC.

God Bless America and the tax payers for supporting this non sense.



Cashier experience here: Nothing stopping them from buying it all on the same receipt, just swipe the EBT and any and everything that is eligible on it will be decucted, leaving a cash balance.

You can get Red Bull on EBT.
 
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: hatt
Salaries have tanked because you've got almost unlimited immigration coming in replacing workers that were already put out of work when their job was outsourced because of unions an the US's high corporate taxes. No kidding salaries are going down.
Since the unions, by and large, back "our dear leader" denial is their middle name, and it ain't a river in Egypt. The coal miners unions are classic examples of that, but trade with China and uncontrolled borders are not the reason they are hurting, the war on coal is. There's battle here in the People's Republic between the union construction workers who usually back democrats and the open borders democrats, since so much construction work has become non-union and "illegal". It's interesting to watch.


I can thank my growing - up in Orange County NY to my pops. He was IBEW Local 3 for.. decades. Installing wiring on WTC elevators, high rank. Furloughs. When is the last time you heard anyone on a 3-month paid Furlouhh... Nice cushy job.

Mom was an RN at Bayonne Hospital for equal decades. No union. Who had the better job? I haven't the slightest idea.

I think a vote for Ross Perot was cast..

Then the 90s ended and the rest is history.
 
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: JHZR2

So... Let's review this again, everyone... Living wage practically speaking is $30/hr. Now how does everyone feel about it? To all those pushing for increased minimum wage, what is the threshold where you realize that fast food, or whatever else, just isn't worth paying that much???


Historically, when the top 1% owns X% of the resources, pitchforks come out. It's said we're close to that point.

Working needs to work better than welfare. We can't seem to touch welfare as it's a political third rail, and those on it have figured out how to wiffle-waffle between state benefits and federal ones, like Social Security Disability, wherever the grass is greener. Instead of pushing them down, pulling workers up corrects the moral discrepancy.

We as a society are also unwilling to correct CEO pay, as the board members that approve such things are an uncrackable old-boy network. So how do we ratchet things closer between the rich and working poor?

So the peasants are restless. Do we parade around feeling good about ourselves because we can obviously point at someone working a cash register and say, many, they must have made some bad life choices to wind up here? And then feel better about ourselves because we have health insurance? When and if they do better, through legal channels, does that shake our world view?
But it's "OK" for "sports stars" and half witted talking head movie actors to make more than a CEO does, why, because they work harder?
 
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