15 dollars a hour?
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Originally Posted By: dishdude
Well that's the problem, you have people working full time and still on government assistance, so instead of paying their salary through the services you're consuming, we're all paying it through taxes.
And yes things might cost a little more, but to me that's the true price of the service. If you have to take advantage of someone's labor to achieve a certain price, that isn't the true cost of goods sold.
That's the way I see it as well. End all welfare and instead having to pay into the govt,pay the employees that chunk instead. I'd rather see hard dedicated entry level workers enjoying life's luxuries over welfare bums who "do" enjoy life's luxuries. Everyone is wired differently. Not everyone is wired to be a doctor or lawyer. When I see trash loading up on filet mignon at the grocery store,paying with an ebt card while talking on their smart phone,then driving off in their Navigator,Escalade,or Mercedes,yet the dedicated hard working entry level laborer has to walk to work every day,something is wrong. I've known alot of people like that. They're just simple people that work their fingers to the bone every day to provide for their family first,and theirselves second. That's all they know,work hard and provide,and they thank God every day for their health,job,and family. I'm not an economist so I don't know the answers,but I'd rather see them not struggling and the ebt recipients picking up garbage on the roads escorted by the police.
Well that's the problem, you have people working full time and still on government assistance, so instead of paying their salary through the services you're consuming, we're all paying it through taxes.
And yes things might cost a little more, but to me that's the true price of the service. If you have to take advantage of someone's labor to achieve a certain price, that isn't the true cost of goods sold.
That's the way I see it as well. End all welfare and instead having to pay into the govt,pay the employees that chunk instead. I'd rather see hard dedicated entry level workers enjoying life's luxuries over welfare bums who "do" enjoy life's luxuries. Everyone is wired differently. Not everyone is wired to be a doctor or lawyer. When I see trash loading up on filet mignon at the grocery store,paying with an ebt card while talking on their smart phone,then driving off in their Navigator,Escalade,or Mercedes,yet the dedicated hard working entry level laborer has to walk to work every day,something is wrong. I've known alot of people like that. They're just simple people that work their fingers to the bone every day to provide for their family first,and theirselves second. That's all they know,work hard and provide,and they thank God every day for their health,job,and family. I'm not an economist so I don't know the answers,but I'd rather see them not struggling and the ebt recipients picking up garbage on the roads escorted by the police.
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
The entire $15 an hour thing was a push by the unions to get more members.
The result is this.
Kroger is union. Starting pay is minimum wage ($7.25) with a $.05 raise every 6 months. I want to say at 2.5 or 3 years they bump you to around $8.50-$9.
The entire $15 an hour thing was a push by the unions to get more members.
The result is this.
Kroger is union. Starting pay is minimum wage ($7.25) with a $.05 raise every 6 months. I want to say at 2.5 or 3 years they bump you to around $8.50-$9.
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Kroger is union. Starting pay is minimum wage ($7.25) with a $.05 raise every 6 months. I want to say at 2.5 or 3 years they bump you to around $8.50-$9.
One has to wonder how much is being taken home after the union gets their cut. What are they getting from the union?
Kroger is union. Starting pay is minimum wage ($7.25) with a $.05 raise every 6 months. I want to say at 2.5 or 3 years they bump you to around $8.50-$9.
One has to wonder how much is being taken home after the union gets their cut. What are they getting from the union?
One of the secrets of these increased minimum wage laws is that often the unions are exempted.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
So... Let's review this again, everyone... Living wage practically speaking is $30/hr. Now how does everyone feel about it? To all those pushing for increased minimum wage, what is the threshold where you realize that fast food, or whatever else, just isn't worth paying that much???
Historically, when the top 1% owns X% of the resources, pitchforks come out. It's said we're close to that point.
Working needs to work better than welfare. We can't seem to touch welfare as it's a political third rail, and those on it have figured out how to wiffle-waffle between state benefits and federal ones, like Social Security Disability, wherever the grass is greener. Instead of pushing them down, pulling workers up corrects the moral discrepancy.
We as a society are also unwilling to correct CEO pay, as the board members that approve such things are an uncrackable old-boy network. So how do we ratchet things closer between the rich and working poor?
So the peasants are restless. Do we parade around feeling good about ourselves because we can obviously point at someone working a cash register and say, many, they must have made some bad life choices to wind up here? And then feel better about ourselves because we have health insurance? When and if they do better, through legal channels, does that shake our world view?
So... Let's review this again, everyone... Living wage practically speaking is $30/hr. Now how does everyone feel about it? To all those pushing for increased minimum wage, what is the threshold where you realize that fast food, or whatever else, just isn't worth paying that much???
Historically, when the top 1% owns X% of the resources, pitchforks come out. It's said we're close to that point.
Working needs to work better than welfare. We can't seem to touch welfare as it's a political third rail, and those on it have figured out how to wiffle-waffle between state benefits and federal ones, like Social Security Disability, wherever the grass is greener. Instead of pushing them down, pulling workers up corrects the moral discrepancy.
We as a society are also unwilling to correct CEO pay, as the board members that approve such things are an uncrackable old-boy network. So how do we ratchet things closer between the rich and working poor?
So the peasants are restless. Do we parade around feeling good about ourselves because we can obviously point at someone working a cash register and say, many, they must have made some bad life choices to wind up here? And then feel better about ourselves because we have health insurance? When and if they do better, through legal channels, does that shake our world view?
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
The entire $15 an hour thing was a push by the unions to get more members.
The result is this.
lol..true
Originally Posted By: hatt
Most union contracts are tied to the minimum wage. MW increase means union worker increase. More jobs headed somewhere else.
yup
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
That's the way I see it as well. End all welfare and instead having to pay into the govt,pay the employees that chunk instead.
= clueless
So you expect private enterprises to morph into social entities solving social problems caused by unions and Government..lol..I can't even respond to this.
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Historically, when the top 1% owns X% of the resources, pitchforks come out. It's said we're close to that point.
Said by who? And pitchforks aren't making it it in this day and age. Unions goons have already figured that out.
The entire $15 an hour thing was a push by the unions to get more members.
The result is this.
lol..true
Originally Posted By: hatt
Most union contracts are tied to the minimum wage. MW increase means union worker increase. More jobs headed somewhere else.
yup
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
That's the way I see it as well. End all welfare and instead having to pay into the govt,pay the employees that chunk instead.
= clueless
So you expect private enterprises to morph into social entities solving social problems caused by unions and Government..lol..I can't even respond to this.
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Historically, when the top 1% owns X% of the resources, pitchforks come out. It's said we're close to that point.
Said by who? And pitchforks aren't making it it in this day and age. Unions goons have already figured that out.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Kroger is union. Starting pay is minimum wage ($7.25) with a $.05 raise every 6 months. I want to say at 2.5 or 3 years they bump you to around $8.50-$9.
One has to wonder how much is being taken home after the union gets their cut. What are they getting from the union?
The employees? Not a whole bunch. They are allowed to clock in 7 minutes late as much as they wish and it's nearly impossible to be let go.
When i left, the union dues were around $7.40 a week regardless of part/ full time status. Take those dues out and the take home is technically less than minimum wage.
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Kroger is union. Starting pay is minimum wage ($7.25) with a $.05 raise every 6 months. I want to say at 2.5 or 3 years they bump you to around $8.50-$9.
One has to wonder how much is being taken home after the union gets their cut. What are they getting from the union?
The employees? Not a whole bunch. They are allowed to clock in 7 minutes late as much as they wish and it's nearly impossible to be let go.
When i left, the union dues were around $7.40 a week regardless of part/ full time status. Take those dues out and the take home is technically less than minimum wage.
Are unions still necessary in America ?
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Are unions still necessary in America ?
Not very many workers seem to think so.
Are unions still necessary in America ?
Not very many workers seem to think so.
SEIU union is at many hospitals I go to and employees are not happy at the lack of negotiations between hospital administration and benefits to employees.
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Are unions still necessary in America ?
Not very many workers seem to think so.
And as unions have died off, you've seen salaries tank too. Thanks to no one representing the employees, you get situations like this:
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
I work in healthcare and was talking to a respiratory technician and his pay was topped out at $32 an hour. He was upset cause he did not get a raise in 2 years. The employer sets the wages based on your skill set, if he complained his boss would tell him I can hire RT's for $25 an hour out of school.
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Are unions still necessary in America ?
Not very many workers seem to think so.
And as unions have died off, you've seen salaries tank too. Thanks to no one representing the employees, you get situations like this:
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
I work in healthcare and was talking to a respiratory technician and his pay was topped out at $32 an hour. He was upset cause he did not get a raise in 2 years. The employer sets the wages based on your skill set, if he complained his boss would tell him I can hire RT's for $25 an hour out of school.
Before Nixon opened up trade with China the low paying jobs were entry level jobs. Look around your house and see how many made in China items we have,does any one care. When I went to replace a ceiling fan the only made in USA fans were commercial units. We had 50,000 plus killed soldiers and wasted billions of dollars in Vietnam so we could buy made in Vietnam clothing! Pay should be by ability and skill we all reach our own levels. Why should some one who chooses a low level job get paid like some one that put the effort to achieve a higher level?
Salaries have tanked because you've got almost unlimited immigration coming in replacing workers that were already put out of work when their job was outsourced because of unions an the US's high corporate taxes. No kidding salaries are going down.
dishdude,
Do you work for a company that is unionized ?
SEIU is know for being in the service industry.
Do you work for a company that is unionized ?
SEIU is know for being in the service industry.
The nation could close its borders entirely, put up the great wall of Trump, and make sure anyone inside had a legal right to be here. This will help the supply side of labor and force wages up.
We could ratchet down all types of welfare spending and motivate people to take those promotions and extra hours when offered.
Welfare could be as simple as providing only very basic unprepaired foods for free. No more EBT paid for Papa Murphys pizzas.
Maybe instead of loaning money to banks at near zero percent the govt could loan to people on welfare to help get them on their own two feet.
Would you remove people and block people from this country to have more money for your family?
Would you take peoples safety nets away in exchange for lower taxes?
That is the bumpy road to a strong middle class and politicians dont dare go near it.
We could ratchet down all types of welfare spending and motivate people to take those promotions and extra hours when offered.
Welfare could be as simple as providing only very basic unprepaired foods for free. No more EBT paid for Papa Murphys pizzas.
Maybe instead of loaning money to banks at near zero percent the govt could loan to people on welfare to help get them on their own two feet.
Would you remove people and block people from this country to have more money for your family?
Would you take peoples safety nets away in exchange for lower taxes?
That is the bumpy road to a strong middle class and politicians dont dare go near it.
ls1mike
$50 Site Donor 2025
You know why I don't worry? You pay either way. You can't change it. Some people want to work, some people don't. Some people become rocket scientists, some don't.
So either I pay more for goods and services because of a wage increase, or a I pay more for those on government assistance.
I am not losing any sleep over it.
I don't complain about any of it. I do wish that some of my money did actually go for fixing roads.
As to the rest of it? I don't know how to fix it. Not sure you can. It requires holding people accountable. We are not good at that anymore.
So either I pay more for goods and services because of a wage increase, or a I pay more for those on government assistance.
I am not losing any sleep over it.
I don't complain about any of it. I do wish that some of my money did actually go for fixing roads.
As to the rest of it? I don't know how to fix it. Not sure you can. It requires holding people accountable. We are not good at that anymore.
Originally Posted By: dareo
That is the bumpy road to a strong middle class and politicians dont dare go near it.
This
and
Originally Posted By: ls1mike
As to the rest of it? I don't know how to fix it. Not sure you can. It requires holding people accountable. We are not good at that anymore.
And yes I would remove people that don't belong here. Yes I would remove incentives to be on welfare and limit it to people who "really" need it. The rest would get enough to survive on as an incentive to work....and yes..the "do-gooders" will never let this happen.
That is the bumpy road to a strong middle class and politicians dont dare go near it.
This
and
Originally Posted By: ls1mike
As to the rest of it? I don't know how to fix it. Not sure you can. It requires holding people accountable. We are not good at that anymore.
And yes I would remove people that don't belong here. Yes I would remove incentives to be on welfare and limit it to people who "really" need it. The rest would get enough to survive on as an incentive to work....and yes..the "do-gooders" will never let this happen.
I'm going to take a crack at this from a different perspective. Raising the min. wage is going after the wrong end. It's a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself. It's also the easy way out....for the politicians. After all, they've created this mess in the first place and do an excellent job of FOGGING their actions. Much like the frightened little man pulling the levers in The Wizard of Oz.
Remember: The humans were much too afraid of the "image" before them to think clearly. But Toto wasn't buying it. He smelled a rat and followed his instincts: The "Wiz" was nothing but a mirage, a constructed image. And a fake one at that.
Let's focus on the little guy and his needs: Food, transportation, shelter, employment, and electricity to start with. Not necessarily in that order...
Everything the little guy buys got there on the back of a truck. Even if shipped by rail, it was still delivered to the store by a truck. Most likely a diesel truck. What recently happened to the price of diesel? Very strict EPA mandate caused it to sky-rocket. Even higher than premium gasoline. Result? Everything delivered by truck, including your most recent Amazon purchase, also went up. Made the meanie-greenies happy by elevating their "enlightened vision", but the cost of living just went up for everyone, especially the little guy.
What happened to the cost of meat for the little guy's hamburger and pork for his tacos? Corn went into the gas tank as a replacement for MTBE. Why? EPA mandate. All livestock is grain-fed, from chickens to pigs to steers. Cost of corn just went up. Money was great, so farmers started planting everything with corn. Gubmint + pols + EPA + meanie-greenies were estastic. Little guy? Not so much.
What about the cost of little guy's electricity? Who'd he vote for? The guy who loudly proclaimed "The price of electricity will sky-rocket". Are the meanie-greenies thinking about his e-bill or their Grand Eco Vision? Solar? Wind? Hydrogen? Good. Nuclear, Coal, natural gas: BAD. Not nearly "enlightened" enough for the Visionated. Progress Demands Sacrifice after all and guess who'll be sacrificing?
Forget flying somewhere...little guy can't afford to take his family anywhere. So what about the cost of gasoline so he can get to work? EPA + Feds + meanie-greenies are in on that as well. "The cost of fossil fuels will skyrocket". He wasn't kidding, was he? Remember $4/ga gas...in Texas? How high did it go on the east coast? Califormia? Progress Demands Sacrifice....who's getting sacrificed on the altar of The Grand Vision?
Little guy can also forget sending his kids to college..no way Jose. That dog just won't hunt.
I haven't even mentioned the border flood of illegals and I live in CenTx.
We no longer have a two party system, just sheer chaos. Thus the front-runners popularity. Only politicians, on both sides, are surprised and that's the problem. He's drawing support from all sides, leaving them clueless....go figure. Their numbers are all wrong.
They've raised the cost of EVERYTHING little guy buys for himself & his family and could care less. After all, they don't drive their own cars, much less shop for their own food or fill their cars with gas. They don't even need cars. The govn't provides them with one & a driver! Plus, you, I & little guy pays for it.
These are the very people who vote themselves pay raises each year. Congress & the executive branch is mostly a nest of narcissists and sociopaths, who are in it for the power, control and authority. They get off on it. Nothing but a (leaning) Tower of Babel, always pointing a finger of blame towards someone else when three fingers always point back at them.
How about giving them the middle finger?
A living wage isn't the answer. Neither is Marxism. After all, "A Government Big Enough to Give You Everything You Need is Big Enough to Take Everything You Have."
Haven't they taken enough already? Don't you think it's HIGH time the govn't was once again afraid of its citizens instead of the other way around?
Doing your own thinking doesn't require a formal education. It does require curiosity and questioning though. Remember the old slogan "Question Authority!" Those currently in power need a relentless application of questioning, particularly by those they've used and taken advantage of for decades. The little guy needs to stop and think about this. He's being played for a fool and openly mocked behind his back.
The Pols are the ones who need severe pay cuts, so does the gubmint and the fat they've created. They all need to be on enforced financial diets along with their departments. Imagine "The Biggest Loser: Politician Version". The EPA is out-of-control, has been radicalized and as a result, energy has been politicized. Those are the WORST hands for it to be held in.
Down here, we all live in A/C. And the e-bill is second only to rent, unless you're paying > $200/mo. for phone/cable/internet, but little guy can't really afford that. I'm unable to shop around for electricity because I'm locked into a city monopoly: They own the utility. Due to their Green Vision of the Annointed, they're costing me & everyone else more GREEN. About 18% more. And that'll be going up as more of their "vision" is implemented.
But this is the direct result, the consequences, of politicizing energy. The greenies + govn't is giving little guy the middle finger. It's high time their own guns were seized, turned around and fired upon them. That they are given the middle finger.
The leading candidate is leading because he knows this. He's tapped into little guys frustration and anger...from all sides. And he's not promising to raise minimum wage either, is he? No. He's talking about JOBS! Bringing JOBS back. In order to do that, he's vowing to go after the very thing that caused them to leave in the first place.
Think about it......
"Expecting Congress to clean up the mess they created is like expecting an Arsonist to put out the fire they created" - Thomas Sowell.
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of it's powers to repress dissent, for the Truth is the moral enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the Truth is the greatest enemy of the State" - Joseph Goebbels
"Politics is not about facts. It's about what politicians can get people to believe" - Thomas Sowell
Remember: The humans were much too afraid of the "image" before them to think clearly. But Toto wasn't buying it. He smelled a rat and followed his instincts: The "Wiz" was nothing but a mirage, a constructed image. And a fake one at that.
Let's focus on the little guy and his needs: Food, transportation, shelter, employment, and electricity to start with. Not necessarily in that order...
Everything the little guy buys got there on the back of a truck. Even if shipped by rail, it was still delivered to the store by a truck. Most likely a diesel truck. What recently happened to the price of diesel? Very strict EPA mandate caused it to sky-rocket. Even higher than premium gasoline. Result? Everything delivered by truck, including your most recent Amazon purchase, also went up. Made the meanie-greenies happy by elevating their "enlightened vision", but the cost of living just went up for everyone, especially the little guy.
What happened to the cost of meat for the little guy's hamburger and pork for his tacos? Corn went into the gas tank as a replacement for MTBE. Why? EPA mandate. All livestock is grain-fed, from chickens to pigs to steers. Cost of corn just went up. Money was great, so farmers started planting everything with corn. Gubmint + pols + EPA + meanie-greenies were estastic. Little guy? Not so much.
What about the cost of little guy's electricity? Who'd he vote for? The guy who loudly proclaimed "The price of electricity will sky-rocket". Are the meanie-greenies thinking about his e-bill or their Grand Eco Vision? Solar? Wind? Hydrogen? Good. Nuclear, Coal, natural gas: BAD. Not nearly "enlightened" enough for the Visionated. Progress Demands Sacrifice after all and guess who'll be sacrificing?
Forget flying somewhere...little guy can't afford to take his family anywhere. So what about the cost of gasoline so he can get to work? EPA + Feds + meanie-greenies are in on that as well. "The cost of fossil fuels will skyrocket". He wasn't kidding, was he? Remember $4/ga gas...in Texas? How high did it go on the east coast? Califormia? Progress Demands Sacrifice....who's getting sacrificed on the altar of The Grand Vision?
Little guy can also forget sending his kids to college..no way Jose. That dog just won't hunt.
I haven't even mentioned the border flood of illegals and I live in CenTx.
We no longer have a two party system, just sheer chaos. Thus the front-runners popularity. Only politicians, on both sides, are surprised and that's the problem. He's drawing support from all sides, leaving them clueless....go figure. Their numbers are all wrong.
They've raised the cost of EVERYTHING little guy buys for himself & his family and could care less. After all, they don't drive their own cars, much less shop for their own food or fill their cars with gas. They don't even need cars. The govn't provides them with one & a driver! Plus, you, I & little guy pays for it.
These are the very people who vote themselves pay raises each year. Congress & the executive branch is mostly a nest of narcissists and sociopaths, who are in it for the power, control and authority. They get off on it. Nothing but a (leaning) Tower of Babel, always pointing a finger of blame towards someone else when three fingers always point back at them.
How about giving them the middle finger?
A living wage isn't the answer. Neither is Marxism. After all, "A Government Big Enough to Give You Everything You Need is Big Enough to Take Everything You Have."
Haven't they taken enough already? Don't you think it's HIGH time the govn't was once again afraid of its citizens instead of the other way around?
Doing your own thinking doesn't require a formal education. It does require curiosity and questioning though. Remember the old slogan "Question Authority!" Those currently in power need a relentless application of questioning, particularly by those they've used and taken advantage of for decades. The little guy needs to stop and think about this. He's being played for a fool and openly mocked behind his back.
The Pols are the ones who need severe pay cuts, so does the gubmint and the fat they've created. They all need to be on enforced financial diets along with their departments. Imagine "The Biggest Loser: Politician Version". The EPA is out-of-control, has been radicalized and as a result, energy has been politicized. Those are the WORST hands for it to be held in.
Down here, we all live in A/C. And the e-bill is second only to rent, unless you're paying > $200/mo. for phone/cable/internet, but little guy can't really afford that. I'm unable to shop around for electricity because I'm locked into a city monopoly: They own the utility. Due to their Green Vision of the Annointed, they're costing me & everyone else more GREEN. About 18% more. And that'll be going up as more of their "vision" is implemented.
But this is the direct result, the consequences, of politicizing energy. The greenies + govn't is giving little guy the middle finger. It's high time their own guns were seized, turned around and fired upon them. That they are given the middle finger.
The leading candidate is leading because he knows this. He's tapped into little guys frustration and anger...from all sides. And he's not promising to raise minimum wage either, is he? No. He's talking about JOBS! Bringing JOBS back. In order to do that, he's vowing to go after the very thing that caused them to leave in the first place.
Think about it......
"Expecting Congress to clean up the mess they created is like expecting an Arsonist to put out the fire they created" - Thomas Sowell.
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of it's powers to repress dissent, for the Truth is the moral enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the Truth is the greatest enemy of the State" - Joseph Goebbels
"Politics is not about facts. It's about what politicians can get people to believe" - Thomas Sowell
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