15 dollars a hour?

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Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
I'm not pushing my full support one way or another, but what good does it do to create a class of Morlocks? Some people just deserve to live as animals even though we can't live without them?

Th world learned to survive without slavery. I'm sure there could be a way to devise eliminating necessary services that deliver unsustainable wages.

Can the positions be eliminated? No. Ask GM and Fanfuc how that whole "lights off" robotic operation worked out. What happens when every fast food place has to have a robotics engineer come to service their restaurant? Who cleans everything?

So maybe they just need to get a better education and apply themselves more. Ok, so who to be the first one to get a college degree to make nothing on a manual labor job? Or should everyone just get educated and leave those jobs behind? Or do we make it worth their while and end up paying a bunch of money for an educated manual laborer anyway?

Robot builders and automation repair technicians are very well paid. Enjoy the "progressiveness" of it all.
 
Originally Posted By: InfmousCornholio
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Quote:
Well I've often wondered this too. One of the supermarkets that we go to sometimes has a decent number of people paying with EBT or WIC paper checks. Just an observation from shopping there sometimes due to generally low prices. And so it's pretty easy to see via normal people watching,my hat there is an abundance of smart phones. Also, it's interesting to see the number of late model Cadillacs that these people ride in.


Yep. Don't forget they will purchase (separately) alcohol and a carton of cigarettes with cash..... but other 'necessary' food items were paid with EBT and WIC.

God Bless America and the tax payers for supporting this non sense.



Cashier experience here: Nothing stopping them from buying it all on the same receipt, just swipe the EBT and any and everything that is eligible on it will be decucted, leaving a cash balance.

You can get Red Bull on EBT.


The store owner rings up beer / cigarettes as milk and bread, cheese, etc....
EBT and WIC = cold hard cash.

If he gets caught, Oops I hit the wrong key on cash register.
 
Originally Posted By: madRiver
Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Get ready for the $10 extra value meal at McDonalds.


There are many decent lunches available at $10 mark around here and they don't pay minimum wage. Maybe folks will start eating decent and likely healthier food instead of corporate garbage.
Name a few.
 
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: JHZR2

So... Let's review this again, everyone... Living wage practically speaking is $30/hr. Now how does everyone feel about it? To all those pushing for increased minimum wage, what is the threshold where you realize that fast food, or whatever else, just isn't worth paying that much???


Historically, when the top 1% owns X% of the resources, pitchforks come out. It's said we're close to that point.

Working needs to work better than welfare. We can't seem to touch welfare as it's a political third rail, and those on it have figured out how to wiffle-waffle between state benefits and federal ones, like Social Security Disability, wherever the grass is greener. Instead of pushing them down, pulling workers up corrects the moral discrepancy.

We as a society are also unwilling to correct CEO pay, as the board members that approve such things are an uncrackable old-boy network. So how do we ratchet things closer between the rich and working poor?

So the peasants are restless. Do we parade around feeling good about ourselves because we can obviously point at someone working a cash register and say, many, they must have made some bad life choices to wind up here? And then feel better about ourselves because we have health insurance? When and if they do better, through legal channels, does that shake our world view?
But it's "OK" for "sports stars" and half witted talking head movie actors to make more than a CEO does, why, because they work harder?


Different lines of work. The sports stars are their own CEOs. That's the way to be.

I know I want to capitalize on my own self.. the trick is "actually doing it."

Networking. It can happen.

More movies, not sports..

YOU Actually Pay FOR Those Actor's EXTRAVAGANT LIFESTYLES WHEN YOU Pay $17.87 for a ticket, which the theatre then pays in its ticket sale to the studio they got the movie from, which paid $52 million for that star to be in the movie. It's the model of the industry.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: madRiver
Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Get ready for the $10 extra value meal at McDonalds.


There are many decent lunches available at $10 mark around here and they don't pay minimum wage. Maybe folks will start eating decent and likely healthier food instead of corporate garbage.


That was my first thought. Some of this can be self-healing...

I just went and had a wonderful penne vodka with panchetta, a side salad and iced tea for lunch, for $10.25, including tax, in high tax Philadelphia, where the employees have to pay city wage tax on top of state and federal taxes.

How is the place not closed?

Do I really care if people on the public dole cannot afford to eat at MacDonalds? Not really. In fact, their welfare and WIC benefits should be restricted to unprocessed, whole foods, because that is all that's required to survive. I almost had a fit when I got stuck behind a woman buying jolly ranchers and whoppers for her oversized children, and pulled out PAPER WIC checks to pay... (with over 20 items in a less than 20 items line BTW).

Do I care if franchise owners pay ridiculous franchise fees and now can't hit the price targets? If they push innovation, how is that a bad thing? The robot controls technician that is now working at the McD's will probably be sweeping floors and programming and maintaining machines. Maybe it will be a good job for them. And the displaced workers can start their own local hamburger joint and offer lower prices, better service and better wages through their own innovation - or justify higher prices by distinguishing themselves from the typical franchise fast food joint. The ones who want to collect welfare and do NOTHING? Well its not that great of a life.

Im all for ensuring that all sorts of low skill jobs can be available and not automated. While automation innovations can be good, there still is a segment of the population that's below average... And its about half the population. And they have to exist, and they have to do something, and they probably should be prevented from dying in the streets... But it doesn't mean they should have the best of anything... But last I checked, $15/hr sure doesn't get that. Heck, $30/hr is only a $60k/year job and it sure doesn't get you the best of everything either.

So if a few places serve fewer happy meals, and other people (including the displaced workers) create innovation and competition in the food industry (or any other industry), then that's not that bad of an idea.

Last I checked, most trades, even most semi-skilled jobs like roofing and landscaping got paid more than $15/hr, so I don't see those prices changing or increasing much.
Mickey D franchise operators are not allowed to, for example, keep two sets of books. Ever wonder why "other alternatives" don't stay open very long?
 
My church supports an annual trip to do repairs to houses in Appalachia. I remember one of the leaders telling the group to avoid passing judgment when seeing houses that should almost be condemned with big satellite dishes in the yards and new Cadillacs (why is it always Cadillacs? parked out front. Obviously, this was a few years ago back when people still bought big dishes (they were not cheap at all).

They told us, "Don't be put off by all that because it'll all be repossessed in a month or two." Huh!? I guess I find it very difficult to be non-judgmental.
 
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: BigD1
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Put me in the camp of raising the minimum wage to a reasonable living wage, with an automatic annual adjustment for inflation. It's entertaining to hear people pound their chest and say get a job. Then tell the folks making minimum wage to get a better job...

People deserve the dignity of a job that pays enough to put a roof over their head in exchange for 40 hours of their life each week.


Yup all they care about is ME ME...lots of that going on in this thread.
What is funny is you guys are employing are sorts of underpaid folks right now. Did you ask the lawn guy (which you almost certainly beat down on the price) if his crew are all getting paid what you think they should be paid? Are you going to tip them to make up their wage working for you? And so on with all the numerous others you deal with. You guys are just like all the clowns who want taxes to be raised but never send in the extra money they say they should owe.
And be sure to adjust for inflation, because that's what you'll get. And those of us who DON'T get "inflation adjustments" well, we can just watch those prices rise while our ability to pay remains the same. Perhaps we can "give" everybody in the country an inflation adjustment. The money to do that grows on trees, does it not?
 
Originally Posted By: Silk
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Imagine if society was full of people making at least $15 an hour. Just imagine what they would do for your business... buy from it.


They aren't going to put any money in the bank, they are going to spend it....at someones business. This is the logic behind tax cuts, give them money and they spend it, money goes around and stimulates the economy.

I see a lot of selfish people here - I have my money and you're not going to get any of it.
"Giver them money" WHOSE money?
 
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: hatt
When did this come about where EVERY job had to be a LIVING WAGE? Plenty of people work part time to have extra money while in high school/college, during the day while the kids are in school, when they retire, and so on.


They'd be undercutting someone who actually needs that job. I don't in the slightest way imagine the clerk at Dollar Tree is doing just fine but wearing that green shirt for some extra pin money.
So the high school or college kid trying to earn some money to help with education costs "really doesn't need it"? Just take out a loan, right? I'M not willing to make that judgement.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Fight For $15 will be pandered in the upcoming election.

The middle class is getting smaller and politicians know this.
That is their plan.
They want government handout hooks into as many sheep voters as possible.
 
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
I haven't been to the movies in 15 years, no way I'll pay $17.87 for a ticket for something that will be on TV over and over...


That's peak time at IMAX in IMAX 3D at Jersey Gardens in Elizabeth.

If I don't need 3Dx I can still do $6 or $7 Cheapskate Tuesdays at Frank Cinema in Bayonne.

The theatres make no money on ticket sales. They push popcorn and soda. That, they do. But the reason the theaters make no money on ticket sales is because of why I said.
 
Originally Posted By: InfmousCornholio
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
I haven't been to the movies in 15 years, no way I'll pay $17.87 for a ticket for something that will be on TV over and over...


That's peak time at IMAX in IMAX 3D at Jersey Gardens in Elizabeth.

If I don't need 3Dx I can still do $6 or $7 Cheapskate Tuesdays at Frank Cinema in Bayonne.

The theatres make no money on ticket sales. They push popcorn and soda. That, they do. But the reason the theaters make no money on ticket sales is because of why I said.



Do $1 movie theaters still exist? Those were the only ones we'd ever go to. Either that or the matinee where it's $3-$4 a ticket.
 
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Fight For $15 will be pandered in the upcoming election.

The middle class is getting smaller and politicians know this.
That is their plan.
They want government handout hooks into as many sheep voters as possible.


Interesting that the unions are behind this but prefer to remain shadows rather than get out in front of it.

Net result is fewer jobs, more folks on assistance. Too bad the workers don't realize the manipulation...
 
Can you cite any economic study that has shown a minimum wage to permanently reduce employment levels?

While a rudimentary understanding of economics, demand and supply, prices would suggest that it does, I believe that actual studies show that this does not in fact happen.
 
All I know for sure is that if the $15/hour minimum becomes a standard across the land, is that the law of unintended consequences will show its head. Sometimes these unintended consequences are beneficial, but more often than not they are harmful to some group of folks.

I guess the only way we will know for sure is to pass this law, and see what happens.
 
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
But it's "OK" for "sports stars" and half witted talking head movie actors to make more than a CEO does, why, because they work harder?


I'd have to review it on a case-by-case basis, but a lot of Hollywood movies generate money overseas that comes to the US, as well as tourism. Our athletes export "the spirit of America" which you can't put a price on, unless you want to prove a point, in which case you can find numbers to support your claim. (It would be nice if athletic teams could manage to maintain stadiums without taxpayer subsidies, but that's more of a CEO/ lobbying decision.)

There are good CEOs but also crummy ones that gut US companies and either ship a factory overseas or engineer tax dodges (Canadian Burger King!) so they don't pull their weight.

But I actually think so. Unless they're a Kardashian.
blush.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Benito
Can you cite any economic study that has shown a minimum wage to permanently reduce employment levels?

While a rudimentary understanding of economics, demand and supply, prices would suggest that it does, I believe that actual studies show that this does not in fact happen.


That's a fine point as well. I recall seeing a few years back when tort reform was all the rage to talk about, that doctors' "unions" would claim that lots of doctors would leave a certain state if certain things were enacted. Was that the case and did it come to fruition? It too may be a good case study of a situation where certain legislation has the potential to remove a large population of jobs.

As much as economics justifies a lot of the situations that people claim to occur, some of that is indeed theory. at the end of the day there are 300 million people in this country growing at a fairly fast rate and there is money to be made from that population everywhere.

it's sort of a different situation from the treacherous CEO who in the interest of their bonus and stock price offshores domestic jobs that people could be working in order to sell the trinkets for a bit more profit or a bit lower price. The treachery on the top end is every bit as bad as the theft and misuse on the lower end.

all that said I do know that as price controls and what not have come into fact, there are fewer and fewer general practitioners and family practice and pediatric doctors coming into the field. Unless they have some gig already lined up many of them want to specialize to justify ever higher pay.

The problem here is that we're talking about doctors as an analog. Someone smart enough who decides not to go to medicine can go into any other number of fields and still make a decent wage. or as all of my friends who are doctors have done ( and it's quite a few), they specialize. The so I have friends making over $300,000 a year coming out of residency.

But what happens to the low performers when there is no further place to drop two or no other way to get out? Will they do like the doctors and all better themselves in light of all shoring of jobs to China and 1 million other people in the job pool? or will a large component of them just drop out of society and live on the government dole as things contract?
 
SteveSRT8,

At 62 I get 2 pensions worth $7500 per month. Never spent a cent on union dues in the last 30 years. I posted it a few weeks ago in a retirement thread.

I'm a $100 an hour employee when you look at the 'big picture'
 
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