15 dollars a hour?

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$10-$15 an hour is about what I pay for no skill general labor.

Any labor that has a skill gets $30-$85 an hour, and my attorney gets $250-$500 an hour.

But the intelligence and education gap between my attorney and they guy I pay to sweep out the houses is pretty large.

Entry level jobs are not meant to support a middle class lifestyle on, they are meant to teach you that working for nothing sucks and to better yourself. The bottom feeders caught in them simply cannot do better because of mental, intelligence, or motivation issues. So expect a lifestyle reduction.

I started sweeping houses, now I own a business. The guy I pay now is twice my age but will never be worth more than $10 an hour. He has mental and drug issues, but still shows up on time and works, he has a good work ethic.
 
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Entry level jobs are not meant to support a middle class lifestyle on, they are meant to teach you that working for nothing sucks and to better yourself.
Now we have .gov telling everyone it's not their fault. Some mythical adversary out there keeping you down. Don't help yourself, you're not qualified, let us do it. The result is a permanent underclass. Handouts don't bring a person up. They're meant to keep you satisfied where you're at.
 
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Originally Posted By: hatt
Handouts don't bring a person up. They're meant to keep you satisfied where you're at.


So you're pro working and against welfare? So should working pay better than the dole?
 
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Its to buy votes, the Romans did it with bread.

These people don't even vote though!
If you really start letting folks go hungry, in a country with more guns than people, things might get pretty bad fast.
You already have lots of crime with a minority of people looking for more money for drugs or whatever, but if everyone on the dole goes hungry, Mexico would be sealing the border from their side...
 
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Its to buy votes, the Romans did it with bread.

These people don't even vote though!
If you really start letting folks go hungry, in a country with more guns than people, things might get pretty bad fast.
You already have lots of crime with a minority of people looking for more money for drugs or whatever, but if everyone on the dole goes hungry, Mexico would be sealing the border from their side...


And you can support that statement concerning this on this side of the boarder just how?
 
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: hatt
Handouts don't bring a person up. They're meant to keep you satisfied where you're at.


So you're pro working and against welfare? So should working pay better than the dole?

Yes bc there should be no dole
 
I started at minimum wage, but in no way did I ever think I was there forever. Even my first month of work I thought "This sucks, but if I work hard and learn here, I can make more or leave for somewhere else". I stayed at that job for 3 months and left.

I've only had 3 employers in the 25 years since and I've moved to 10 times my first day wage.

You can't live on minimum wage and you shouldn't have to. Do what you need to do to earn more.

I'm not paying $10 for that meal that used to cost $7, so good luck.
 
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Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: hatt
Handouts don't bring a person up. They're meant to keep you satisfied where you're at.


So you're pro working and against welfare? So should working pay better than the dole?


Working does pay better than the dole. It pays better in money, pride, self respect, etc. If you're depending on the dole or politician campaign promises you're always going to be poor in all those categories.
 
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
... Entry level jobs are not meant to support a middle class lifestyle on, they are meant to teach you that working for nothing sucks and to better yourself. The bottom feeders caught in them simply cannot do better because of mental, intelligence, or motivation issues. So expect a lifestyle reduction.



Nothing more poignant and biting that this ... And TRUE.



Like a lot of things today, the concept of minimum wage is misunderstood, and it's perception has changed due to the ever-growing masses that "need" it.

There are two reasons I can think of that Minimum Wage (MW) is useful:
1) as a temporary earning on the way up
2) as a temporary earning between bumps in your financial life

Minimum wage is what we should be paying our teenage kids when they work after school and on weekends. Minimum wage is a practical low-limit to provide a sensible earning level for people who are NOT in a position to need to support themselves, or a family. The problem has become that way too many people are trying to "live" (survive) on minimum wage as an imposed means of providing life support for their poor life choices. MW was NEVER meant to be a means for a single mother to support her five kids out of wedlock. MW was NEVER meant to give a 39-year-old man the means to have a nice car, to buy a house, and money to bar-hop on the weekend. MW was not meant as a practical means to supplement welfare handouts.

And I can recognize that not all people on MW are dropouts or drug abusers, although many are. There are people who, through no fault of their own, misfortune has dealt them a poor hand. I get that. But a lot of this comes from the fact that people have lost jobs that were good paying, and now they have to settle for MW jobs. That, too, is not what MW is meant for. While MW can be a short-term fall-back job that supplements your spending from your savings account while you seek other employment, it wasn't meant to be a gov-sponsored permanent lifeline! MW can add to other saved means from those rainy-day accounts, but it's NOT meant to be a perpetual buoy for raising a family.

MW was meant as a means to entice young people into the workforce just long enough for them to realize that it's not enough to live on, and motivate them to do better so that they will never need a MW to thrive. Or it can function to be a short-term supplement between better-paying jobs.

There are literally hundreds of thousands of people who try to live on MW; I understand that. And I feel badly for them. But by adjusting the MW to a level that sustains their lifestyle will only do just that. It would not encourage them to do "better". And typically, one generation will have to suffer even multiple MW jobs so that their children can hopefully do "better" in life. Not better by demanding for more help, but better by earning more via life choices and effort!

Raising the MW as a means to support families is just another attempt to provide a larger nanny-state.
 
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
MW was meant as a means to entice young people into the workforce just long enough for them to realize that it's not enough to live on, and motivate them to do better so that they will never need a MW to thrive. Or it can function to be a short-term supplement between better-paying jobs.

There are literally hundreds of thousands of people who try to live on MW; I understand that. And I feel badly for them. But by adjusting the MW to a level that sustains their lifestyle will only do just that. It would not encourage them to do "better". And typically, one generation will have to suffer even multiple MW jobs so that their children can hopefully do "better" in life. Not better by demanding for more help, but better by earning more via life choices and effort!

Such a simple concept, yet so many struggle to understand it.
 
Originally Posted By: dnewton3

MW was meant as a means to entice young people into the workforce just long enough for them to realize that it's not enough to live on, and motivate them to do better so that they will never need a MW to thrive. Or it can function to be a short-term supplement between better-paying jobs.

Not sure it was ever "meant" to be that, but it has evolved into that. I certainly agree with what you said.

But most of us understand it has also morphed into a topic to get Politicians re-elected. Promising financial help for college, for illegal immigrants, for increased benefits, and for minimum wage plays well in this arena.
 
Originally Posted By: Al
Promising financial help for college, for illegal immigrants, for increased benefits, and for minimum wage plays well in this arena.


In a weird sort of way, ensuring illegal immigrants get MW would remove one of the enticements to hire them in the first place. Might as well get gringos, then, if you have to pay $7.25.
 
The notion of a "rising tide lifting all boats" is lost on the vote buyers and the handout generaton. So, the shills try to force feed the notion that taking from someone else to "right this wrong" of low pay is the correct thing to do, and despite all their whining about the "rich" it's the middle class which pays. Read the papers, the 1% are doing very well despite an "administration" which bashes them with one hand and takes their campaign contributions with the other. Raise the minimum wage, but let in far more workers than there are good jobs to offerthem. Some say it's "rational"
 
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Originally Posted By: hatt
Most of these people spend $100s/month on cell phones, cable, Netflix, McDs, Yoohoos, chips, etc.

You hear about the people getting $900 a month in food stamps and go hungry.


Any data to support these claims, specifically referring to "most of these people"? Or just your WAG?
 
Originally Posted By: moving2
Originally Posted By: hatt
Most of these people spend $100s/month on cell phones, cable, Netflix, McDs, Yoohoos, chips, etc.

You hear about the people getting $900 a month in food stamps and go hungry.


Any data to support these claims, specifically referring to "most of these people"? Or just your WAG?


I have personal experience from working in a grocery store.

Yes this is true. Granted I didnt know what they did at home, but the majority of EBT users had the latest smart phone, bought lotto tickets, alcohol and tobacco. Not to mention horrendous amounts of junk food. Sorry, but if you are on welfare, dont buy this [censored]!

It is sad though because even chewing gun and ice (frozen water) is allowed to be purchased with EBT. I knew quite a few people that would buy chicken liver/ heart trays and green beans so they could be their dogs on our tax dollars.

People live in denial and like an ostrich, they'll put their head in the sand and pretend the issue doesnt exist. I assure you it does.

1 lady stands out to me that was a rare exception. Early 30's, 3 well behave kids and was very polite. The rest of them can almost be spotted, heard or smelled.
 
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