I got my first M/S in1968 and befriended Jack Dyer of Jacks go Shop in San Bruno Calif 'He was a real kind generous man. He would always say why didn't the MFGs have 3 size what ever for the motorcycles instead of so many different common parts. 3 sizes of oils filters are all that are needed maybe 2, large and small and all the different manufactures would use the same 2 or 3 filters between them all! it would cost less make stocking parts easier and be much more efficient in every way.
0w20 Good or not
- Thread starter Oildudeny
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*I would like to think if I ran a 5W20 synthetic or M1 0W20 AFE for no more than say 5,000 miles as an OCI of mixed driving I should be ok ?
Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
*Upon further review in this thread - I see the Hyundai 2012 - 2013 GDI engines were affected ... It's interesting how Hyundai / Kia recommend 5W30 as a replacement oil instead of the prior 5W20 oil stamped on the oil cap ? Also , while I had fuel dilution the first two oil changes I do not notice now in my '17 Sonata now with 18K miles .
For the non-replacement engines they also recommend Conventional 5W-30. Does this mean that is their recommendation moving forward? I doubt it. My personal opinion is that they are checking cars with both 5w20 and 5w30 requirements addressed in the TSB. It's easier, more cost effective and safer to use a viscosity both engines are cleared for versus a Technician making a mistake and pouring 5W-20 in a turbo 2.0T they just replaced under warranty or cleared of having debris.
Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
*Upon further review in this thread - I see the Hyundai 2012 - 2013 GDI engines were affected ... It's interesting how Hyundai / Kia recommend 5W30 as a replacement oil instead of the prior 5W20 oil stamped on the oil cap ? Also , while I had fuel dilution the first two oil changes I do not notice now in my '17 Sonata now with 18K miles .
For the non-replacement engines they also recommend Conventional 5W-30. Does this mean that is their recommendation moving forward? I doubt it. My personal opinion is that they are checking cars with both 5w20 and 5w30 requirements addressed in the TSB. It's easier, more cost effective and safer to use a viscosity both engines are cleared for versus a Technician making a mistake and pouring 5W-20 in a turbo 2.0T they just replaced under warranty or cleared of having debris.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: StevieC
As I understand it from Terry most OEM's are now using a low flow oil filter system where most of the oil is left unfiltered and goes back to circulation in the engine and a small percentage is run through the filter for filtration instead of all the oil running through the filter all the time.
Hard to believe that one - maybe you're confusing that with variable volume oil pumps. Got any links describing this system? What auto maker these days is going to purposely send unfiltered oil through the engine?
Yeah, I can't see that happening either.
Lower viscosity, lower MOFT, tighter (some) clearances, they aren't going to leave oil unfiltered.
Originally Posted By: StevieC
As I understand it from Terry most OEM's are now using a low flow oil filter system where most of the oil is left unfiltered and goes back to circulation in the engine and a small percentage is run through the filter for filtration instead of all the oil running through the filter all the time.
Hard to believe that one - maybe you're confusing that with variable volume oil pumps. Got any links describing this system? What auto maker these days is going to purposely send unfiltered oil through the engine?
Yeah, I can't see that happening either.
Lower viscosity, lower MOFT, tighter (some) clearances, they aren't going to leave oil unfiltered.
wemay
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ChrisD46,
I don't see why not.
I don't see why not.
Originally Posted By: billt460
I just don't understand how or why they have so many different size oil filters for all of these vehicles? I get the fact a 7 liter turbo diesel needs a bigger oil filter than a 4 cylinder Camry. But no one is going to tell me that every car, SUV, or pickup on the road today, could not be properly serviced by 6 different standard sized oil filters, instead of 397 of them.
Agreed!
Quote:
And these idiot "engineers" are going backwards. In the early 60's the "Big 3" were getting away from cartridge oil filters. Because they were a dirty, messy PITA to change out. So they adapted the disposable, spin on oil filter. Most all engines used them. Now, fast forward 50 years, and they're going back to cartridge filters on a lot of these cars.
Disagree!
Ok the spin on can be less mess (been eons but I recall getting a mess doing the job on GM 4.3--but who knows what filter we were using back then). But cartridge means I can just toss the paper into the trash. I guess I could cut the metal canister and separate the mess... but right back to the start.
Six of one, half dozen of the other IMO.
Quote:
It's the same with alternators. I mentioned the oil filter drama to the guy at O'Reilly's when I bought the super small strap wrench. He said, "That's nothing, come here and look at this." He took me in the back and showed me 35 feet of shelving, 5 shelves high, full of nothing but alternators.
Again, I get the fact a 3500 series pickup pulling a 5th wheel needs a bigger alternator than a sub compact... But again, 397 different ones? They would sell just as many alternators and oil filters. They would just be somewhat standardized. Instead you could go into a woman's custom designer dress shop, and have a better chance of finding 2 evening gowns the same.
I just don't understand how or why they have so many different size oil filters for all of these vehicles? I get the fact a 7 liter turbo diesel needs a bigger oil filter than a 4 cylinder Camry. But no one is going to tell me that every car, SUV, or pickup on the road today, could not be properly serviced by 6 different standard sized oil filters, instead of 397 of them.
Agreed!
Quote:
And these idiot "engineers" are going backwards. In the early 60's the "Big 3" were getting away from cartridge oil filters. Because they were a dirty, messy PITA to change out. So they adapted the disposable, spin on oil filter. Most all engines used them. Now, fast forward 50 years, and they're going back to cartridge filters on a lot of these cars.
Disagree!
Six of one, half dozen of the other IMO.
Quote:
It's the same with alternators. I mentioned the oil filter drama to the guy at O'Reilly's when I bought the super small strap wrench. He said, "That's nothing, come here and look at this." He took me in the back and showed me 35 feet of shelving, 5 shelves high, full of nothing but alternators.
Again, I get the fact a 3500 series pickup pulling a 5th wheel needs a bigger alternator than a sub compact... But again, 397 different ones? They would sell just as many alternators and oil filters. They would just be somewhat standardized. Instead you could go into a woman's custom designer dress shop, and have a better chance of finding 2 evening gowns the same.
OP
0w-20 are good lubricants. I personally run something thicker because my engine has almost 180,000 miles and clearances have opened up a bit. When it was new I ran 5w-20, and later 0w-20, and then 5w-30 when I drove for uber. Now I’m back in FL so I’m running M1 HM 10w-30. I don’t need the cold cranking of a 5w or 0w, and the M1 is A3/B3 with HTHS of 3.5. It’s a “true” 30 grade oil. It also crosses over nicely to the lawn mower and the generator, so I only have to stock one grade of oil.
0w-20 are good lubricants. I personally run something thicker because my engine has almost 180,000 miles and clearances have opened up a bit. When it was new I ran 5w-20, and later 0w-20, and then 5w-30 when I drove for uber. Now I’m back in FL so I’m running M1 HM 10w-30. I don’t need the cold cranking of a 5w or 0w, and the M1 is A3/B3 with HTHS of 3.5. It’s a “true” 30 grade oil. It also crosses over nicely to the lawn mower and the generator, so I only have to stock one grade of oil.
“.....I just don't understand how or why they have so many different size oil filters for all of these vehicles? I get the fact a 7 liter turbo diesel needs a bigger oil filter than a 4 cylinder Camry. But no one is going to tell me that every car, SUV, or pickup on the road today, could not be properly serviced by 6 different standard sized oil filters, instead of 397 of them.....”
I think the Valvoline Oil Change places have done just that with a handful of sizes to fit most everything. I’m sure they are not alone.
I think the Valvoline Oil Change places have done just that with a handful of sizes to fit most everything. I’m sure they are not alone.
Originally Posted By: OilUzer
There must be more "thickies" hiding in closet ...
c'mon out don't worry!
Do they even have synthetic in some of these countries? Any time they show wars/fights in middle East or Africa, I see a lot of new(er) Toyotas.
You mean they can ship the cars there, ship the parts , but can't ship a jug of oil over there?
There must be more "thickies" hiding in closet ...
Do they even have synthetic in some of these countries? Any time they show wars/fights in middle East or Africa, I see a lot of new(er) Toyotas.
You mean they can ship the cars there, ship the parts , but can't ship a jug of oil over there?
Last edited:
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I know it's mentioned sometime or another,but does 0W20 always have a superior base stock over 5W20? Making 0W20 a better oil over a 5W20 for a car that specs a 20 weight?
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I know it's mentioned sometime or another,but does 0W20 always have a superior base stock over 5W20? Making 0W20 a better oil over a 5W20 for a car that specs a 20 weight?
It's another one of those claims that comes up all the time...you can have a syn blend 0W20, so obviously it's not always true.
I know it's mentioned sometime or another,but does 0W20 always have a superior base stock over 5W20? Making 0W20 a better oil over a 5W20 for a car that specs a 20 weight?
It's another one of those claims that comes up all the time...you can have a syn blend 0W20, so obviously it's not always true.
^If you need to start an engine at temperatures nearly cold enough to freeze mercury, yes, 0W-20 is better. Otherwise, it depends ...
Originally Posted By: supton
But cartridge means I can just toss the paper into the trash. I guess I could cut the metal canister and separate the mess... but right back to the start.
I've been tossing spin on filters in the trash for the last 50 years. Along with millions of others. What difference does the metal canister make? The media is what soaks up all the oil, not the metal can it sits in.
But cartridge means I can just toss the paper into the trash. I guess I could cut the metal canister and separate the mess... but right back to the start.
I've been tossing spin on filters in the trash for the last 50 years. Along with millions of others. What difference does the metal canister make? The media is what soaks up all the oil, not the metal can it sits in.
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Toyota is starting to use just a couple different cartridge filters in their line-up. I'm sure OEM's would do more of this where possible because of the cost of warehousing/stocking etc.
Toyota and German manufacturer use less variety of oil filter, even some used on 1989 are still in use on their new car. I guess different size is just to make outside workshop tough and people come back to original dealer and generate more revenue.
Toyota is starting to use just a couple different cartridge filters in their line-up. I'm sure OEM's would do more of this where possible because of the cost of warehousing/stocking etc.
Toyota and German manufacturer use less variety of oil filter, even some used on 1989 are still in use on their new car. I guess different size is just to make outside workshop tough and people come back to original dealer and generate more revenue.
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Originally Posted By: 69GTX
0w-20 vs. 5w-20? In fact, the 5w-20 would probably offer better protection year round.
In what way?
0w-20 vs. 5w-20? In fact, the 5w-20 would probably offer better protection year round.
In what way?
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: supton
But cartridge means I can just toss the paper into the trash. I guess I could cut the metal canister and separate the mess... but right back to the start.
I've been tossing spin on filters in the trash for the last 50 years. Along with millions of others. What difference does the metal canister make? The media is what soaks up all the oil, not the metal can it sits in.
Removed spin-ons hold a lot more oil than a cartridge filter. Only way you're going to remove all the oil from a spin-on is to squeeze/crush it like they do at the oil filter recycling facilities, or somehow open up the ADBV and let it drain base down for a few days.
Originally Posted By: supton
But cartridge means I can just toss the paper into the trash. I guess I could cut the metal canister and separate the mess... but right back to the start.
I've been tossing spin on filters in the trash for the last 50 years. Along with millions of others. What difference does the metal canister make? The media is what soaks up all the oil, not the metal can it sits in.
Removed spin-ons hold a lot more oil than a cartridge filter. Only way you're going to remove all the oil from a spin-on is to squeeze/crush it like they do at the oil filter recycling facilities, or somehow open up the ADBV and let it drain base down for a few days.
Originally Posted By: spasm3
Originally Posted By: Oildudeny
If the manufacturer spec calls for 0w20, why is it many BITOG members choose another weight or recommend another weight to be used?
I do it because my manufacturers engineers recommend a different oil in countries not subject to CAFE.
What about all of those Hondas and Toyotas that spec 0W-20 in the US and 0W-16 in Japan?
Originally Posted By: Oildudeny
If the manufacturer spec calls for 0w20, why is it many BITOG members choose another weight or recommend another weight to be used?
I do it because my manufacturers engineers recommend a different oil in countries not subject to CAFE.
What about all of those Hondas and Toyotas that spec 0W-20 in the US and 0W-16 in Japan?
Originally Posted By: Astro_Guy
Originally Posted By: spasm3
Originally Posted By: Oildudeny
If the manufacturer spec calls for 0w20, why is it many BITOG members choose another weight or recommend another weight to be used?
I do it because my manufacturers engineers recommend a different oil in countries not subject to CAFE.
What about all of those Hondas and Toyotas that spec 0W-20 in the US and 0W-16 in Japan?
They don't count since they spec a thin oil here in the U.S., CAFE, Japan they don't count either since they don't run thicker oil so the argument if they can do it so can we doesn't apply.
Originally Posted By: spasm3
Originally Posted By: Oildudeny
If the manufacturer spec calls for 0w20, why is it many BITOG members choose another weight or recommend another weight to be used?
I do it because my manufacturers engineers recommend a different oil in countries not subject to CAFE.
What about all of those Hondas and Toyotas that spec 0W-20 in the US and 0W-16 in Japan?
They don't count since they spec a thin oil here in the U.S., CAFE, Japan they don't count either since they don't run thicker oil so the argument if they can do it so can we doesn't apply.
Originally Posted By: Rat407
Originally Posted By: Astro_Guy
Originally Posted By: spasm3
Originally Posted By: Oildudeny
If the manufacturer spec calls for 0w20, why is it many BITOG members choose another weight or recommend another weight to be used?
I do it because my manufacturers engineers recommend a different oil in countries not subject to CAFE.
What about all of those Hondas and Toyotas that spec 0W-20 in the US and 0W-16 in Japan?
They don't count since they spec a thin oil here in the U.S., CAFE, Japan they don't count either since they don't run thicker oil so the argument if they can do it so can we doesn't apply.
See the forth bullet in this PDF file. - LINK
"The need of the Nation to conserve energy. The United States and Canada have the lowest standards in terms of fleet-average fuel economy rating, and they have the highest greenhouse gas emission rates among first world nations; the European Union and Japan have higher fuel economy standards and lower emission standards than the United States."
Japan actually has their own version of "CAFE" (the "Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry (METI)") ... so I'd think their use of thinner and thinner oil is also driven by the their fuel mileage regulations/laws. - LINK
More info on some of Japan's fuel economy regulations. - LINK
Originally Posted By: Astro_Guy
Originally Posted By: spasm3
Originally Posted By: Oildudeny
If the manufacturer spec calls for 0w20, why is it many BITOG members choose another weight or recommend another weight to be used?
I do it because my manufacturers engineers recommend a different oil in countries not subject to CAFE.
What about all of those Hondas and Toyotas that spec 0W-20 in the US and 0W-16 in Japan?
They don't count since they spec a thin oil here in the U.S., CAFE, Japan they don't count either since they don't run thicker oil so the argument if they can do it so can we doesn't apply.
See the forth bullet in this PDF file. - LINK
"The need of the Nation to conserve energy. The United States and Canada have the lowest standards in terms of fleet-average fuel economy rating, and they have the highest greenhouse gas emission rates among first world nations; the European Union and Japan have higher fuel economy standards and lower emission standards than the United States."
Japan actually has their own version of "CAFE" (the "Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry (METI)") ... so I'd think their use of thinner and thinner oil is also driven by the their fuel mileage regulations/laws. - LINK
More info on some of Japan's fuel economy regulations. - LINK
Originally Posted By: Astro_Guy
Originally Posted By: spasm3
Originally Posted By: Oildudeny
If the manufacturer spec calls for 0w20, why is it many BITOG members choose another weight or recommend another weight to be used?
I do it because my manufacturers engineers recommend a different oil in countries not subject to CAFE.
What about all of those Hondas and Toyotas that spec 0W-20 in the US and 0W-16 in Japan?
I don't know, i don't have one. I can only comment on my mazda.
Originally Posted By: spasm3
Originally Posted By: Oildudeny
If the manufacturer spec calls for 0w20, why is it many BITOG members choose another weight or recommend another weight to be used?
I do it because my manufacturers engineers recommend a different oil in countries not subject to CAFE.
What about all of those Hondas and Toyotas that spec 0W-20 in the US and 0W-16 in Japan?
I don't know, i don't have one. I can only comment on my mazda.
Originally Posted By: spasm3
Originally Posted By: Astro_Guy
Originally Posted By: spasm3
Originally Posted By: Oildudeny
If the manufacturer spec calls for 0w20, why is it many BITOG members choose another weight or recommend another weight to be used?
I do it because my manufacturers engineers recommend a different oil in countries not subject to CAFE.
What about all of those Hondas and Toyotas that spec 0W-20 in the US and 0W-16 in Japan?
I don't know, i don't have one. I can only comment on my mazda.
Your Mazda specs for 0w20.
Originally Posted By: Astro_Guy
Originally Posted By: spasm3
Originally Posted By: Oildudeny
If the manufacturer spec calls for 0w20, why is it many BITOG members choose another weight or recommend another weight to be used?
I do it because my manufacturers engineers recommend a different oil in countries not subject to CAFE.
What about all of those Hondas and Toyotas that spec 0W-20 in the US and 0W-16 in Japan?
I don't know, i don't have one. I can only comment on my mazda.
Your Mazda specs for 0w20.
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