0w20 Good or not

[Tahoe4Life]

When I see all the 2015 and newer Tahoe's,Suburban's and Yukon's with 5.3 and 6.2 GDI engines dropping dead on the side of the road in NYC and Miami I will let everyone know. Everyone I know with those vehicles [some with over to 200K miles] use 0w20 and most just stick to Mobil 1. They all change out around 6500 miles even though they can probably go longer but they sit in tons of daily gridlock.

BTW the bulk of them use plain old 87 regular gas like I do and they are running just fine. Mostly Mobil gas but always a top tier gas.

 

[TiredTrucker]

Originally Posted By: PimTac
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
0w-20 vs. 5w-20?

There's no benefit to using the 0w-20 in hotter climates like SoCal, South Texas, Gulf Coast and Florida, etc. In fact, the 5w-20 would probably offer better protection year round. Maybe the engine wouldn't notice the difference until 200K, 300K, or more miles. Doesn't really matter. There's no reason to use a 0w-20 in those hotter climates. One size isn't optimal for all environments.



What’s the difference between the two?


5w20 will typically use fewer viscosity modifiers in the mix. It will have a lower NOACK rating. Both are an advantage over 0w20.

 

[ChrisD46]

*New Toyota Hybrid engines state 0W16 ...
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: spasm3
I don't fear the oil. I think in a MPFI engine designd for it, its fine. What scares me is a DI engine with 0w20.

Is that why Toyota specifies 0W-16 in its GDI engines?


My new 2018 Toyota Camry specifies 0W-16 oil. However the owners manual states that 0W-20 is acceptable, and can be used. So that is what I'm going to use, because I can't find 0W-16 on the shelves anywhere by me. And I'm not going to the dealer and pay over double, or order oil on Amazon. I'm sure eventually it will become more available. But in the mean time I'll just use 0W-20. Again, per the manual.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
I ran xW-20 in my 2010 FX4 for the whole 158K miles I owned it. I towed 8-9K pounds at least 45% of those miles in the mountains and in heat up to 117°F.
When I go to Walmart for oil purchases, I cannot find any that say xW-20. That's because there aren't any. What is so hard to hit the 0 or 5 keys on your internet device, instead of x?
This website is intended to be an easy source for information for everyone (newbies too). So lets not treat your replies as intended only for oil phd's/experts.
Oh please, really? Of the information I posted, the "x" is a problem? For the unknowing, it means that I ran both 0W-20 AND 5W-20 during the life of the vehicle, though that should be self-evident if you have spent more than 5 minutes on this site.

 

[ChrisD46]

*Upon further review in this thread - I see the Hyundai 2012 - 2013 GDI engines were affected ... It's interesting how Hyundai / Kia recommend 5W30 as a replacement oil instead of the prior 5W20 oil stamped on the oil cap ? Also , while I had fuel dilution the first two oil changes I do not notice now in my '17 Sonata now with 18K miles .

 

[69GTX]

Originally Posted By: Rat407
Originally Posted By: Zee09
Poor engineering has always been abundant in the automotive industry.


I agree, we should go back to hand cranking our vehicles and get rid of power windows and the like. Hand crank windows worked just fine.


I would love hand crank windows available on all my cars. Same for manual antennae shafts, and even manual seats. That will drop my repair bill down considerably over the years as each of those eventually fails. Power window fixes are a pain. It's a wonder I survived the 70's and 80's with manual windows...lol. My last car with manual windows was a 1998. Had that until 2009. I miss it.

 

[69GTX]

Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
0w-20 vs. 5w-20?

There's no benefit to using the 0w-20 in hotter climates like SoCal, South Texas, Gulf Coast and Florida, etc. In fact, the 5w-20 would probably offer better protection year round. Maybe the engine wouldn't notice the difference until 200K, 300K, or more miles. Doesn't really matter. There's no reason to use a 0w-20 in those hotter climates. One size isn't optimal for all environments.



What’s the difference between the two?


5w20 will typically use fewer viscosity modifiers in the mix. It will have a lower NOACK rating. Both are an advantage over 0w20.



And it's precisely during startup in moderate to warmer climates that 5w-20 will give you more fluid film strength during the initial 0-10 minute period before your engine oil temp warms up enough. And in the same vein, 10w could be even better in many cases, especially during summer. In my mind if you can pump with 5w or even 10w in your climate, that's potentially the preferable oil. In summer time US and Canada, I see no advantages to a 0w. Thicker works better on startup as long as it can pump (MRV) and flow ok.

 

[billt460]

I did my first oil change on my 2018 Toyota Camry this morning. It didn't really need it quite yet, but I was curious as to how much of a PITA it would be. It actually went pretty smooth once I got it high enough off the ground. Man that thing rides low. Then it has this cheap, flimsy plastic cover, that covers up the pan and the oil filter that you have to remove.

No big deal, just 4, 10 MM bolts and it comes right off. The drain plug is right there, and the filter is just off to the side of it. Everything came off easily, and was not over tightened at the factory. The oil capacity in the manual says 4.8 US quarts. (Most likely designed by the same degreed "engineer" who designed the ultra small oil filter, that I had to buy another ultra small strap wrench to fit). So in went the whole 5 quart jug of 0W-20 Mobil 1 "Extended Performance Full Synthetic".

I fired it up, checked for leaks, then put the flimsy plastic cover back on, and I was done. After an hour of sitting in the garage I checked the oil level, and it was right up to the "full hole" on the stick, same place the factory fill was. So overall it's not too bad to deal with.

As for overall ease I would give it a 7 out of 10. Possibly an 8, if I could slap the engineer who designed the silly flimsy cover and microscopic filter.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted By: billt460
I did my first oil change on my 2018 Toyota Camry this morning. It didn't really need it quite yet, but I was curious as to how much of a PITA it would be. It actually went pretty smooth once I got it high enough off the ground. Man that thing rides low. Then it has this cheap, flimsy plastic cover, that covers up the pan and the oil filter that you have to remove.

No big deal, just 4, 10 MM bolts and it comes right off. The drain plug is right there, and the filter is just off to the side of it. Everything came off easily, and was not over tightened at the factory. The oil capacity in the manual says 4.8 US quarts. (Most likely designed by the same degreed "engineer" who designed the ultra small oil filter, that I had to buy another ultra small strap wrench to fit). So in went the whole 5 quart jug of 0W-20 Mobil 1 "Extended Performance Full Synthetic".

I fired it up, checked for leaks, then put the flimsy plastic cover back on, and I was done. After an hour of sitting in the garage I checked the oil level, and it was right up to the "full hole" on the stick, same place the factory fill was. So overall it's not too bad to deal with.

As for overall ease I would give it a 7 out of 10. Possibly an 8, if I could slap the engineer who designed the silly flimsy cover and microscopic filter.




Sounds like my Mazda. I was surprised the filter was not torqued on super tight. My splash shield has a access panel just for the oil change. I’m surprised Toyota doesn’t do this.

I had wrestled with several new car oil changes over my lifetime. The Mazda was super easy and welcome in my book since I’m not getting any younger.

I would guess the filter size is efficient and it does the job. We probably have similar sized filters. My coffee cup is bigger than my filter. As long as it does the job that’s all I care about.

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted By: PimTac




Sounds like my Mazda. I was surprised the filter was not torqued on super tight. My splash shield has a access panel just for the oil change. I’m surprised Toyota doesn’t do this.

I had wrestled with several new car oil changes over my lifetime. The Mazda was super easy and welcome in my book since I’m not getting any younger.



I know we're getting off topic but I was also surprised at how easy the first oil change on my Corvette was. Every other new car I have ever bought has given me trouble on that first oil change, with both the drain plug and the oil filter being put on so tight at the factory that they took a huge amount of muscle to remove. But on the Corvette both of those things came off as easily as if I had done the previous oil change, no wrestling was necessary.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: PimTac

I would guess the filter size is efficient and it does the job. We probably have similar sized filters. My coffee cup is bigger than my filter. As long as it does the job that’s all I care about.


As I understand it from Terry most OEM's are now using a low flow oil filter system where most of the oil is left unfiltered and goes back to circulation in the engine and a small percentage is run through the filter for filtration instead of all the oil running through the filter all the time. Allowing for better flow and requiring a smaller filter. There is also better media today versus yester-year so not as much surface area is required.

I think the reason is because tolerances are so good today that there isn't the metallic debris in the oil combined with much better engine efficiency leaving less junk floating around, that there was decades ago so full-time filtration isn't necessary and there is an added benefit of flow by using the filter only partially.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: PimTac
I would guess the filter size is efficient and it does the job. We probably have similar sized filters. My coffee cup is bigger than my filter. As long as it does the job that’s all I care about.


I just don't understand how or why they have so many different size oil filters for all of these vehicles? I get the fact a 7 liter turbo diesel needs a bigger oil filter than a 4 cylinder Camry. But no one is going to tell me that every car, SUV, or pickup on the road today, could not be properly serviced by 6 different standard sized oil filters, instead of 397 of them.

And these idiot "engineers" are going backwards. In the early 60's the "Big 3" were getting away from cartridge oil filters. Because they were a dirty, messy PITA to change out. So they adapted the disposable, spin on oil filter. Most all engines used them. Now, fast forward 50 years, and they're going back to cartridge filters on a lot of these cars.

It's the same with alternators. I mentioned the oil filter drama to the guy at O'Reilly's when I bought the super small strap wrench. He said, "That's nothing, come here and look at this." He took me in the back and showed me 35 feet of shelving, 5 shelves high, full of nothing but alternators.

Again, I get the fact a 3500 series pickup pulling a 5th wheel needs a bigger alternator than a sub compact... But again, 397 different ones? They would sell just as many alternators and oil filters. They would just be somewhat standardized. Instead you could go into a woman's custom designer dress shop, and have a better chance of finding 2 evening gowns the same.

 

[StevieC]

Toyota is starting to use just a couple different cartridge filters in their line-up. I'm sure OEM's would do more of this where possible because of the cost of warehousing/stocking etc.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Didn't it also state that you had to revert to 0W16 at the next interval?


Yes. Then it also states something about a higher viscosity oil if the vehicle is going to be run for long periods at high speeds in high temperatures.... Or words to that effect.


Viscosity used is dependent on conditions of use - as usual. And running 0W-20 all the time isn't going to hurt anything; it will actually give you a bit more insurance that those bearings don't kiss the journals.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
As I understand it from Terry most OEM's are now using a low flow oil filter system where most of the oil is left unfiltered and goes back to circulation in the engine and a small percentage is run through the filter for filtration instead of all the oil running through the filter all the time.


Hard to believe that one - maybe you're confusing that with variable volume oil pumps. Got any links describing this system? What auto maker these days is going to purposely send unfiltered oil through the engine?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: 69GTX
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
5w20 will typically use fewer viscosity modifiers in the mix. It will have a lower NOACK rating. Both are an advantage over 0w20.

And it's precisely during startup in moderate to warmer climates that 5w-20 will give you more fluid film strength during the initial 0-10 minute period before your engine oil temp warms up enough. And in the same vein, 10w could be even better in many cases, especially during summer.


Are you talking about oil film thickness? If so, any of those oils xW-20 oils are way thicker when cold than they are when hot. I'd think the main difference in the "W" rating would be pumpability, not film strength/film thickness protection when the oil is cold.

 

[Yah-Tah-Hey]

You are stirring the pot Oildude.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
*Upon further review in this thread - I see the Hyundai 2012 - 2013 GDI engines were affected ... It's interesting how Hyundai / Kia recommend 5W30 as a replacement oil instead of the prior 5W20 oil stamped on the oil cap ? Also , while I had fuel dilution the first two oil changes I do not notice now in my '17 Sonata now with 18K miles .


For the non-replacement engines they also recommend Conventional 5W-30. Does this mean that is their recommendation moving forward? I doubt it. My personal opinion is that they are checking cars with both 5w20 and 5w30 requirements addressed in the TSB. It's easier, more cost effective and safer to use a viscosity both engines are cleared for versus a Technician making a mistake and pouring 5W-20 in a turbo 2.0T they just replaced under warranty or cleared of having debris.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: spasm3
I do it because my manufacturers engineers recommend a different oil in countries not subject to CAFE.


I always wondered this as well,but I see now that Shell Australia's lube match recommends Helix Ultra 0W20 as their premium oil change for my Accord.

 

[OilUzer]

There must be more "thickies" hiding in closet ...

c'mon out don't worry!

Do they even have synthetic in some of these countries? Any time they show wars/fights in middle East or Africa, I see a lot of new(er) Toyotas.

unscientific observation:
I think that for an average driver (i.e. majority) over %95 of average cars today (gas engines, not familiar with diesel) can use 5Wx30 without any issues. bitog standard of won't blow up

However you can't say the same about 5Wx20 or 0Wx20!

If someone asks me, random car somewhere in the world, needs an oil change, 0Wx20 and 5Wx30 synthetic available, pick one for them.
Which would you pick?