It's a Honda, and I could care less for looking for those "wear numbers". I have too much fun changing oil to worry about making it last long enough to put any validity on "wear numbers"!!!
0w-40 viscosity engine oils
- Thread starter Doug Hillary
- Start date
- Status
Informative thread, a "New Classic". FTR- Castrol RS is readily available at BMW dealers as their house 0w-40. If I needed some oil, I skip WalMart and be all over that puppy.
BTW- Jag...
BTW- Jag...
This whole thread so Dougie could get back at TS? Wow - good thread none the less.
Oh well - I still think IF Amsoil had a 0W-40 that thinned like like M1, Doug would be on it like stink on shat. (Amsoil does have AFF but it's not really for cars) Funny the double edged sword....
M1 0W-40 thins. (see data in this thread) And we sometimes anecdotally observe less iron wear with 5W-40's (see thread with TS and others). This does NOT make M1 0W-40 a bad oil choice. It's just that there are better choices. No miracle choices, just better choices. (And I would never use this oil in my super car)
[ October 24, 2005, 11:05 PM: Message edited by: Pablo ]
Oh well - I still think IF Amsoil had a 0W-40 that thinned like like M1, Doug would be on it like stink on shat. (Amsoil does have AFF but it's not really for cars) Funny the double edged sword....
M1 0W-40 thins. (see data in this thread) And we sometimes anecdotally observe less iron wear with 5W-40's (see thread with TS and others). This does NOT make M1 0W-40 a bad oil choice. It's just that there are better choices. No miracle choices, just better choices. (And I would never use this oil in my super car)
[ October 24, 2005, 11:05 PM: Message edited by: Pablo ]
If we are praising 0w-40 partly becuase of it's start-up viscosities, aren't many 5w-30s and 5w-40s thinner at most modestly cold temps, like >20f or >-5c? At operating temps (and beyond), how bad is a lil thinning, if there are no deposit by-products?
Hey JAG,
Thanks for your very detailed post regarding longitudinal 1.8Ts and oil selection. I keep wondering whether, particularly in San Diego, I should be using Mobil 1 5W-40 "truck & SUV" instead of my current 0W-40 "[spoiled] European car formula." With 5 years remaining on my powertrain warranty, I am avoiding all non-502.00 oils for now. I am also switching next time from the VW 068-115-561B oil filter to the even-longer Purolator L40316, which is made in Germany by Mann, one of VW's OEM filter suppliers, and which I just picked up for $2.50 ($1.50 after rebate) at my local MannyMoe&Jack.
Thanks for your very detailed post regarding longitudinal 1.8Ts and oil selection. I keep wondering whether, particularly in San Diego, I should be using Mobil 1 5W-40 "truck & SUV" instead of my current 0W-40 "[spoiled] European car formula." With 5 years remaining on my powertrain warranty, I am avoiding all non-502.00 oils for now. I am also switching next time from the VW 068-115-561B oil filter to the even-longer Purolator L40316, which is made in Germany by Mann, one of VW's OEM filter suppliers, and which I just picked up for $2.50 ($1.50 after rebate) at my local MannyMoe&Jack.
The research engineers have to deal with many compromises, notably in the area of emissions and the extended emissions system warrantys required in the US. I worry about the compromises needed to make M1 0w40 pass SM standards. The elemental analyses of SM M1 oils look much less robust than the SL oils.
There should be a reason to MB,AMG to use Mobil1 0w-40 grade in their cars.other than 5w-30,10w-30.
power train engineers know about oil more than us for sure....
I cant see any thing wrong with the 0w-40 grade at all regardless the brand.In my case i have gained more power and fuel economy with 0w-40 grade over 5w-30 and 10w-30 grades.
power train engineers know about oil more than us for sure....
I cant see any thing wrong with the 0w-40 grade at all regardless the brand.In my case i have gained more power and fuel economy with 0w-40 grade over 5w-30 and 10w-30 grades.
Well, I can tell you in the case of Mercedes-Benz it's because this is the only grade of Mobil 1 sold in the US that meets their 229.5 spec. The vast majority of the oils sold in Europe that meet 229.5 are 5w30 or 0w30. Indeed, the factory fill for AE Haas' Maybach was Mercedes-Benz's own "Premium Synthetik Motorenöl" in 5w30 (which he posted a UOA of), but for Maybachs sold in the US the recommended service fill is Mobil 1 0w40.
Here is a list of 229.5 approved oils:
AGIP Formula LL DC 5W-30 (I)
Amsoil Synthetic 5W-40 European Engine Oil (USA)
Aral SuperTronic G 5W-30 (D)
Aral SuperTronic M 5W-30 (D)
Castrol DCO TOPUP 0W-30 (D)
Castrol Syntec European Formula 0W-30 (USA)
Elf Excellium 229.5 5W-30 (F)
FormulaShell Ultra AB 5W-30 (GB)
Fuchs Titan Supersyn SL MB 5W-30 (D)
Labo MB 229.5 5W-30 (F)
Liqui Moly Longtime High Tech 5W-30 (D)
Mobil 1 SuperSyn European Car Formula 0W-40 / Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel 0W-40 (USA)
Mobil SHC Formula MB 5W-30 (USA)
Motorex Profil M-XL 5W-30 (CH)
OMV full syn MB 5W-30 (A)
Pennzoil European Formula Ultra 5W-30 (USA)
Premium Synthetik Motorenöl 5W-30 (DaimlerChrysler, D)*
Quaker State European Formula Ultra 5W-30 (USA)
Shell Helix Ultra AB 5W-30 (Mercedes-Benz) (GB)
Shell Helix Ultra DC 229.5 (GB)
Total Quartz 229.5 5W-30 (F)
Valvoline SynPower MB 5W-30 (NL)
*This oil is made for Mercedes Benz by Shell and is nothing more than tweaked and relabeled Helix Ultra.
My first post!
I have read a lot on the debate of 0-40 oil, especially Mobil 1 0-40.
We have a Porsche Cayenne Turbo that has this oil as factory fill. I do have to admit I have seen a couple tests done with this particular oil and the results came out beautiful for the Cayenne Turbo.
In General, the Cayenne Turbo eats this oil like mad, about 90% take a qt. within 1000 to 2000 miles, let me also state per owners manual this is considered normal..................
Also, the tests seem irrelevant considering if some have gone 19K and added a 1 qt. every 1k or 2k the oil should look good and mess up the true wear of the oil by adding more TBN and so forthto keep it alive.
I have a lot of faith in Porsches engine development as most of the turbo engines are dyno tested in the factory and have break-in done during this time to keep everything at spec.
I do question if this oil is well suited for this car?
An AMG Mercedes may do well but if you go on all the popular Porsche Message boards, this used to be a critical issue with new Cayenne Turbo Owners to the point some blamed the car more than the oil. 996 Turbo owners complain as well.
Just a side note, the Cayenne S which is NA seems to eat little oil, 1 qt. per 10k.
Anyway, I will be using a batch of 0-40 Mobil 1 for my next round, need to make my factory warranty happy.......
Our car has 9000 miles on it, uses about 1 qt. every 2000 miles and has a 9 qt. dry sump system. Low oil warning comes on below 2 or 3 qt. s
I will do a test without adding oil and bring you guys the results, the oil will be young, around a 5000 mile test
I have read a lot on the debate of 0-40 oil, especially Mobil 1 0-40.
We have a Porsche Cayenne Turbo that has this oil as factory fill. I do have to admit I have seen a couple tests done with this particular oil and the results came out beautiful for the Cayenne Turbo.
In General, the Cayenne Turbo eats this oil like mad, about 90% take a qt. within 1000 to 2000 miles, let me also state per owners manual this is considered normal..................
Also, the tests seem irrelevant considering if some have gone 19K and added a 1 qt. every 1k or 2k the oil should look good and mess up the true wear of the oil by adding more TBN and so forthto keep it alive.
I have a lot of faith in Porsches engine development as most of the turbo engines are dyno tested in the factory and have break-in done during this time to keep everything at spec.
I do question if this oil is well suited for this car?
An AMG Mercedes may do well but if you go on all the popular Porsche Message boards, this used to be a critical issue with new Cayenne Turbo Owners to the point some blamed the car more than the oil. 996 Turbo owners complain as well.
Just a side note, the Cayenne S which is NA seems to eat little oil, 1 qt. per 10k.
Anyway, I will be using a batch of 0-40 Mobil 1 for my next round, need to make my factory warranty happy.......
Our car has 9000 miles on it, uses about 1 qt. every 2000 miles and has a 9 qt. dry sump system. Low oil warning comes on below 2 or 3 qt. s
I will do a test without adding oil and bring you guys the results, the oil will be young, around a 5000 mile test
That is just an excessive amount of oil burn off IMO. I'm really shocked that a car of that quality would use that much oil. I would really use a 5w-40 to see if it lowers the oil consumption but I understand your fear of warranty issues.
Hi,
vino22 - welcome to BITOG from a fellow and long time Porsche owner
Buster - Porsche insists on mandatory use of a 0w-40 libricant in vino22's engine! They have many Approved & Listed 5w-40 oils too - more than 0w-40s but they WANT a 0w-40 in there!
Since about MY73 Porsche have had the following limit to normal oil consumption;
400miles/quart or 1.5litres/1000kms
Oh Pablo - you said this, how absolutely "Amsoil"!
"This whole thread so Dougie could get back at TS? Wow - good thread none the less.
Oh well - I still think IF Amsoil had a 0W-40 that thinned like like M1, Doug would be on it like stink on shat. Amsoil does have AFF but it's not really for cars Funny the double edged sword....
M1 0W-40 thins. see data in this thread And we sometimes anecdotally observe less iron wear with 5W-40's see thread with TS and others. This does NOT make M1 0W-40 a bad oil choice. It's just that there are better choices. No miracle choices, just better choices. And I would never use this oil in my super car"
Pablo - of course you will use the Amsoil products you sell - you have to love them!
And you have purposely avoided the point and reverted to the old Amsoil "knock Mobil" marketing ploy again but at least no 4 ball references yet. The thread was on 0w-40 Approved & Listed oils - NOT M1!
You said;
"M1 0W-40 thins"
Well so do many oils but the question remains Pablo, what does this really mean? Is it bad? Is it good? Does it really matter? I know it doesn't!!
And remember these words?
"I may have misspoken...it seems wear was reduced by 50%-70% compared to the Mobil 1, 0w-40, rather than the mere 25%-40% I had predicted in the previous thread. LOL!"
And these too;
"....excessive shear...." and "....excessive valve train wear...."
Where are the facts to support this "stuff" and what criteria supports "excessive"?
Many people on here have said that most Amsoil products become excessively thick with use. Frankly, what does this mean? Is it bad? Is it good? Does it really matter? I hope not!
But as most of Amsoil's products are not Approved and Listed they surely don't rate a mention on this thread now do they? Especially a "no car" 0w-40!
JAG - OT. I use EGTs taken off the pyrometer. We log these and the oil and coolant temperatures too in specific situations. We often reach 1000F EGT and often sustain it for long periods of 20-30 minutes or so - oil temps have never exceeded 112C - automatic power/shutdown @ max. 121C - and coolant has never exceeded 95C - automatic power/shutdown @ max.106C. Additionally, these are logged in the engine's ECM along with the engine's load factor
These turbos are not "cooled" and the oil return temperature is often in the 160-190C range. This is but one reason why I use an HDEO with a HTHS vis around 4cSt
When turbos first became "common" in the 1960s the cassette's replacement life was about 20-70kkms. This was mainly due to their poor design, metallurgy, location, oil formulation/pressure/flow and poor cooling considerations etc. Driver inexperience played a major role too. HD oils and especially CAT Series 3 oils minimised turbo failures and extended their life in petrol engine applications at that time
Today's turbo-chargers do not need to be idled down for more that about a minute and many car applications are coolant cooled. We use the pyrometer's green band
Back to the 0w-40 versus 5-40 issue we should not forget that we are dealing with SAE40 oils - not 0w/5w lubricants - and with an HTHS viscosity of around 3.5cSt.
ebaker - your comments;
"The research engineers have to deal with many compromises, notably in the area of emissions and the extended emissions system warrantys required in the US. I worry about the compromises needed to make M1 0w40 pass SM standards. The elemental analyses of SM M1 oils look much less robust than the SL oils."
I tend to agree and again one should surely refer to the engine Manufacturer's Approval's Lists to see whether any perceived quality downgrade has resulted in the product being de-listed. I like the characteristics of Delvac 1 as a CH-4 rather than a CI-4+ but the durability aspects are identical in use - often some fears are proven to be groundless
And finally a question for those with doubts - if you were a producer of some of the most advanced and powerful - kW/ltr - engines ever made using twin turbos and advanved valve actuation etc, gave them three years unlimited distance warranty in the hands of "the public" and insisted that the OCI was annual or 20kkms, would you use and insist on service filling with a substandard lubricant? The answer would surely be NO!
That is why Porsche only endorse using an Approved & Listed 0w-40 lubricant in the Cayenne and why it is their factory fill!!
It just happens to be M1 0w-40 at the factory?
I am so pleased you have enjoyed this thread Pablo!
Doug
[ October 25, 2005, 07:41 PM: Message edited by: Doug Hillary ]
vino22 - welcome to BITOG from a fellow and long time Porsche owner
Buster - Porsche insists on mandatory use of a 0w-40 libricant in vino22's engine! They have many Approved & Listed 5w-40 oils too - more than 0w-40s but they WANT a 0w-40 in there!
Since about MY73 Porsche have had the following limit to normal oil consumption;
400miles/quart or 1.5litres/1000kms
Oh Pablo - you said this, how absolutely "Amsoil"!
"This whole thread so Dougie could get back at TS? Wow - good thread none the less.
Oh well - I still think IF Amsoil had a 0W-40 that thinned like like M1, Doug would be on it like stink on shat. Amsoil does have AFF but it's not really for cars Funny the double edged sword....
M1 0W-40 thins. see data in this thread And we sometimes anecdotally observe less iron wear with 5W-40's see thread with TS and others. This does NOT make M1 0W-40 a bad oil choice. It's just that there are better choices. No miracle choices, just better choices. And I would never use this oil in my super car"
Pablo - of course you will use the Amsoil products you sell - you have to love them!
And you have purposely avoided the point and reverted to the old Amsoil "knock Mobil" marketing ploy again but at least no 4 ball references yet. The thread was on 0w-40 Approved & Listed oils - NOT M1!
You said;
"M1 0W-40 thins"
Well so do many oils but the question remains Pablo, what does this really mean? Is it bad? Is it good? Does it really matter? I know it doesn't!!
And remember these words?
"I may have misspoken...it seems wear was reduced by 50%-70% compared to the Mobil 1, 0w-40, rather than the mere 25%-40% I had predicted in the previous thread. LOL!"
And these too;
"....excessive shear...." and "....excessive valve train wear...."
Where are the facts to support this "stuff" and what criteria supports "excessive"?
Many people on here have said that most Amsoil products become excessively thick with use. Frankly, what does this mean? Is it bad? Is it good? Does it really matter? I hope not!
But as most of Amsoil's products are not Approved and Listed they surely don't rate a mention on this thread now do they? Especially a "no car" 0w-40!
JAG - OT. I use EGTs taken off the pyrometer. We log these and the oil and coolant temperatures too in specific situations. We often reach 1000F EGT and often sustain it for long periods of 20-30 minutes or so - oil temps have never exceeded 112C - automatic power/shutdown @ max. 121C - and coolant has never exceeded 95C - automatic power/shutdown @ max.106C. Additionally, these are logged in the engine's ECM along with the engine's load factor
These turbos are not "cooled" and the oil return temperature is often in the 160-190C range. This is but one reason why I use an HDEO with a HTHS vis around 4cSt
When turbos first became "common" in the 1960s the cassette's replacement life was about 20-70kkms. This was mainly due to their poor design, metallurgy, location, oil formulation/pressure/flow and poor cooling considerations etc. Driver inexperience played a major role too. HD oils and especially CAT Series 3 oils minimised turbo failures and extended their life in petrol engine applications at that time
Today's turbo-chargers do not need to be idled down for more that about a minute and many car applications are coolant cooled. We use the pyrometer's green band
Back to the 0w-40 versus 5-40 issue we should not forget that we are dealing with SAE40 oils - not 0w/5w lubricants - and with an HTHS viscosity of around 3.5cSt.
ebaker - your comments;
"The research engineers have to deal with many compromises, notably in the area of emissions and the extended emissions system warrantys required in the US. I worry about the compromises needed to make M1 0w40 pass SM standards. The elemental analyses of SM M1 oils look much less robust than the SL oils."
I tend to agree and again one should surely refer to the engine Manufacturer's Approval's Lists to see whether any perceived quality downgrade has resulted in the product being de-listed. I like the characteristics of Delvac 1 as a CH-4 rather than a CI-4+ but the durability aspects are identical in use - often some fears are proven to be groundless
And finally a question for those with doubts - if you were a producer of some of the most advanced and powerful - kW/ltr - engines ever made using twin turbos and advanved valve actuation etc, gave them three years unlimited distance warranty in the hands of "the public" and insisted that the OCI was annual or 20kkms, would you use and insist on service filling with a substandard lubricant? The answer would surely be NO!
That is why Porsche only endorse using an Approved & Listed 0w-40 lubricant in the Cayenne and why it is their factory fill!!
It just happens to be M1 0w-40 at the factory?
I am so pleased you have enjoyed this thread Pablo!
Doug
[ October 25, 2005, 07:41 PM: Message edited by: Doug Hillary ]
"They have many Approved & Listed 5w-40 oils too - more than 0w-40s but they WANT a 0w-40 in there!"
It seems that no one will recommend an HDEO for gas engines so comparisons on optimum performance, disregarding warranty requirements, need to be made with other than what is used in a factory fill. A comparison of additives will probably show a healthier dose of zinc in the HDEO, suggesting which one is better suited for higher loads.
It seems that no one will recommend an HDEO for gas engines so comparisons on optimum performance, disregarding warranty requirements, need to be made with other than what is used in a factory fill. A comparison of additives will probably show a healthier dose of zinc in the HDEO, suggesting which one is better suited for higher loads.
What I see as odd is that 0w-40 (Mobil 1) has an HT/HS of 3.5 or 3.6 at ~14cSt. German Syntec 0w-30 has the same HT/HS at ~12cSt. Redline has even greater HT/HS for a given +100c visc. How then, is 0w-40 more desirable than 0w-30 if it takes a thicker blend for the same HT/HS?
Hi,
1sttruck & Audi - I started the thread off specifically on Approved & Listed oils. Especially on how these 0w-40 and 5w-40s stack up against Tooslick's constant negative and unsubstantiated comments
Once you move outside that envelope "the sky is the limit" as to formulations - and these may be non performers when tested for Listing - we can at least reasonably assume that they aren't!
Some will be excellent products perhaps BECAUSE of their non-conformity but may invalidate warranty and etc
But whether they will affect wear by a factor of 50 to 70%? - well we know that answer don't we - they simply don't!
As you may be aware I am a very long term user of 5w-40 synthetic HDEOs in almost every engine I have
I have NOT rubbished any Brand or "model" of lubricant - that is not my style
You see I strongly believe that there is no magic oil when they compared to similar quality specifications. Even modern Group 3 oils may exceed the performance of many others deemed as "fully" synthetic and considerably more expensive! My long term use of Shell's old XHVI "synthetics" (Helix Ultra) always produced excellent results too
Doug
1sttruck & Audi - I started the thread off specifically on Approved & Listed oils. Especially on how these 0w-40 and 5w-40s stack up against Tooslick's constant negative and unsubstantiated comments
Once you move outside that envelope "the sky is the limit" as to formulations - and these may be non performers when tested for Listing - we can at least reasonably assume that they aren't!
Some will be excellent products perhaps BECAUSE of their non-conformity but may invalidate warranty and etc
But whether they will affect wear by a factor of 50 to 70%? - well we know that answer don't we - they simply don't!
As you may be aware I am a very long term user of 5w-40 synthetic HDEOs in almost every engine I have
I have NOT rubbished any Brand or "model" of lubricant - that is not my style
You see I strongly believe that there is no magic oil when they compared to similar quality specifications. Even modern Group 3 oils may exceed the performance of many others deemed as "fully" synthetic and considerably more expensive! My long term use of Shell's old XHVI "synthetics" (Helix Ultra) always produced excellent results too
Doug
Doug - no doubt about it. This thread is about M1 0W-40, and TS's comments about the same oil. I have not "rubbished" this oil.
Doug your style is sly, no doubt about that either. Carry on!
BTW - can you show me:
1) Where TS tore into any other 0W-40?
2) Where I ever made a disparaging, undeserved remark about Mobil (or any other oil for that matter)? (It sure seems easy for you say "knock Mobil" in quotes, but please prove I do this)
Doug your style is sly, no doubt about that either. Carry on!
BTW - can you show me:
1) Where TS tore into any other 0W-40?
2) Where I ever made a disparaging, undeserved remark about Mobil (or any other oil for that matter)? (It sure seems easy for you say "knock Mobil" in quotes, but please prove I do this)
So JAG,
I have the formentioned longitudinal 1.8T in a 2002 Passat that you speak of. I just had my first Blackston report run at 5k interval and the only issue was it was a bit low (just out of range) on viscosity which seems to match the findings in this thread. Does that mean I should leave it in longer (IE I am wasting my money changing at 5k?) or should I switch to a non VW 502 oil? What are you running in yours?
Thanks for the help for a Newbie!!
I have the formentioned longitudinal 1.8T in a 2002 Passat that you speak of. I just had my first Blackston report run at 5k interval and the only issue was it was a bit low (just out of range) on viscosity which seems to match the findings in this thread. Does that mean I should leave it in longer (IE I am wasting my money changing at 5k?) or should I switch to a non VW 502 oil? What are you running in yours?
Thanks for the help for a Newbie!!
Hi,
Pablo - I have no truck for M1 0w-40 in particular and I heartily endorse all of the Approved and Listed 0w-40 oils as very well suited to the application where recommended
Pablo - please read your own words over many many posts and such as;
"(And I would never use this oil in my super car)"
Well some of the super cars that really matter do use it - like it or not! You don't have to!!
Have I ever said this sort of thing about Amsoil or any other product for instance? - clearly NO!!!
Sly? - Oxford Dictionary = secretive, underhand? ....well that's not me!
Wily, crafy - you really judge me that way?
Pablo you always eventually attack me personally in the end as you have done for some years
Well I suppose that is your style and I need to live with it or without BITOG - that's my choice!
As for TS and another 0w-40, read the Porsche UOAs
I am really pleased you like this thread Pablo - well at least I thought you did! Sorry you had to resort to a personal critique though as sadly the facts supporting Ted's comments are still missing IMHO
I would confidently use any Approved and Listed 0w-40 lubricant as mentioned above. The Brand is immaterial in my opinion!
Doug
Pablo - I have no truck for M1 0w-40 in particular and I heartily endorse all of the Approved and Listed 0w-40 oils as very well suited to the application where recommended
Pablo - please read your own words over many many posts and such as;
"(And I would never use this oil in my super car)"
Well some of the super cars that really matter do use it - like it or not! You don't have to!!
Have I ever said this sort of thing about Amsoil or any other product for instance? - clearly NO!!!
Sly? - Oxford Dictionary = secretive, underhand? ....well that's not me!
Wily, crafy - you really judge me that way?
Pablo you always eventually attack me personally in the end as you have done for some years
Well I suppose that is your style and I need to live with it or without BITOG - that's my choice!
As for TS and another 0w-40, read the Porsche UOAs
I am really pleased you like this thread Pablo - well at least I thought you did! Sorry you had to resort to a personal critique though as sadly the facts supporting Ted's comments are still missing IMHO
I would confidently use any Approved and Listed 0w-40 lubricant as mentioned above. The Brand is immaterial in my opinion!
Doug
Thanks Audi Junkie for the welcome!
Based on viscosity tables that people have posted on this site, M1 5W-30 is thinner than M1 0W-40 at all temps above -20C (chart goes no lower so ?? below that). M1 10W-30 viscosity = M1 0W-40 viscosity at 0 C and below that the latter is thinner. On the other hand, usually the M1 0W-40 is thinner than 5W-40 oils at less than operating temps. GC is thinner than M1 0W-40 at all temps above -20C and below 150C, but GC is very sheer stable and HTHS values are 3.5 vs 3.6, respectively.
John E: UOAs seem to favor M1 T&SUV over the M1 0W-40, so I'd use the former over the latter, but if you want to be safe in terms of warranty and use a 502 spec oil, you can't use this oil. And I have not high-temp. tested this oil so I can't comment on that aspect of it. Other truly excellent, proven-in-the-1.8T engine oils that meet VW 502 spec are (as already said): GC, and 5W-40 oils from Pentosin, LubroMoly, Amsoil, Valvoline Synpower. The Valvoline gives great UOAs but you've read what I found out about its relative tolerance for heat (Group 3 basestocks likely the cause), so that would be my last choice out of this list. Certainly other oils could be on this list (like Elf and other obscure Euro oils) but there aren't enough, or any, UOAs to justify that. BTW, Elf can be bought from www.turbofrogperformance.com, but it's pricey. I don't know why you say you are avoiding VW 502 spec oils. I tried the longer VW filter from the old diesel engines, and found start up chatter increased in cold weather, so I went back to standard size. Keep an ear on that when you try your big filter (only happens when it's less than about low 40s F). See if you can find any oil lines that are close to exhaust manifold or turbo and if so, wrap them in some extreme heat resistant wrap for extra insurance against sludge.
JasonVW, you could go longer than 5k miles on the M1 0W-40 but why bother? There are other better choices and you must stick with 5k changes if you ever need VW to honor your warranty for an oil-related engine problem. And they may also hold you to using a 502 spec oil, depending on how cranky the guy in charge is. So use one of the above oils that meets the 502 spec and change it at 5k. I've run many oils but have recently started using German Castrol (Gold version).
Based on viscosity tables that people have posted on this site, M1 5W-30 is thinner than M1 0W-40 at all temps above -20C (chart goes no lower so ?? below that). M1 10W-30 viscosity = M1 0W-40 viscosity at 0 C and below that the latter is thinner. On the other hand, usually the M1 0W-40 is thinner than 5W-40 oils at less than operating temps. GC is thinner than M1 0W-40 at all temps above -20C and below 150C, but GC is very sheer stable and HTHS values are 3.5 vs 3.6, respectively.
John E: UOAs seem to favor M1 T&SUV over the M1 0W-40, so I'd use the former over the latter, but if you want to be safe in terms of warranty and use a 502 spec oil, you can't use this oil. And I have not high-temp. tested this oil so I can't comment on that aspect of it. Other truly excellent, proven-in-the-1.8T engine oils that meet VW 502 spec are (as already said): GC, and 5W-40 oils from Pentosin, LubroMoly, Amsoil, Valvoline Synpower. The Valvoline gives great UOAs but you've read what I found out about its relative tolerance for heat (Group 3 basestocks likely the cause), so that would be my last choice out of this list. Certainly other oils could be on this list (like Elf and other obscure Euro oils) but there aren't enough, or any, UOAs to justify that. BTW, Elf can be bought from www.turbofrogperformance.com, but it's pricey. I don't know why you say you are avoiding VW 502 spec oils. I tried the longer VW filter from the old diesel engines, and found start up chatter increased in cold weather, so I went back to standard size. Keep an ear on that when you try your big filter (only happens when it's less than about low 40s F). See if you can find any oil lines that are close to exhaust manifold or turbo and if so, wrap them in some extreme heat resistant wrap for extra insurance against sludge.
JasonVW, you could go longer than 5k miles on the M1 0W-40 but why bother? There are other better choices and you must stick with 5k changes if you ever need VW to honor your warranty for an oil-related engine problem. And they may also hold you to using a 502 spec oil, depending on how cranky the guy in charge is. So use one of the above oils that meets the 502 spec and change it at 5k. I've run many oils but have recently started using German Castrol (Gold version).
"Informative thread, a "New Classic". FTR- Castrol RS is readily available at BMW dealers as their house 0w-40. If I needed some oil, I skip WalMart and be all over that puppy."
Interestingly enough if you use the oil selector at the Castrol UK site, this RS 0W-40 is the listed recommended oil for a Honda Accord 2.4L iVTEC
Interestingly enough if you use the oil selector at the Castrol UK site, this RS 0W-40 is the listed recommended oil for a Honda Accord 2.4L iVTEC
Hi Fernando,
Castrol's RS 0w-40 has been available here now for some several months and has a very good reputation
Doug
Castrol's RS 0w-40 has been available here now for some several months and has a very good reputation
Doug
- Status
