RA: oil viscosity and piston ring

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Patrick0525

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Patrick0525 said:
Can I assume that I can get improved longevity if my Venza moves to 5w-30 with the higher HTHS oil rating?
Click to expand...

The typical Toyota engine is an aluminum block with cast-in iron liners, although I'm not fully certain on your engine. While Toyota engines have long been known for exceptional lifespan, there is clearly a group of modern Toyota engines that develop early oil consumption issues due to the most minor of low tension ring wear. Unrelated to clogged oil ring drain holes. Honda had a similar problem. As always, the reasons vary, including component choice, such as the ring package. The drive for a 40% thermally efficient gasoline engine has not been simple or easy.

In general, piston ring friction is the number 1 source of engine friction. Efforts to reduce this include bore material choice, ring tension, ring width, ring surface coatings, ring count, and geometric changes, such as larger bores, which reduce piston ring swept area.

The better manufacturers choose quality components that work well long term.
 
Patrick0525 said:
Read oil viscosity and piston ring article : late April 2024 RA newsletter.

https://www.rockauto.com/Newsletter/

Wife’s 2009 Lexus ES 350 5w-30
My 2014 Toyota Venza 0w-30
Both are 2GR-FE V6 engines
Currently the Lexus and Toyota piston ring set point to the same OE part number.

https://parts.lexus.com/p/Lexus__ES-350/Engine-Piston-Ring/62917049/130110P040.html


Can I assume that I can get improved longevity if my Venza moves to 5w-30 with the higher HTHS oil rating?
Click to expand...
Isn't the article saying the opposite?!? Thinner scrapes off more easily and thicker might cause higher consumption? Or is my reading comprehension way off?
 
HowAboutThis said:
Isn't the article saying the opposite?!? Thinner scrapes off more easily and thicker might cause higher consumption? Or is my reading comprehension way off?
Click to expand...
The article is likely, not all that accurate. Clearly, high viscosity oil reduces consumption, often to nil, in the vast majority of slightly worn, oil consuming, Toyota and Honda engines.
 
Cujet said:
The article is likely, not all that accurate. Clearly, high viscosity oil reduces consumption, often to nil, in the vast majority of slightly worn, oil consuming, Toyota and Honda engines.
Click to expand...
In general, the Toyota 2GR-FS is not known for the oil control ring issue that affects the 4 cylinder engines. Car cars nut tore down a 2015 I4 180k mi Camry that suffered high oil consumption despite meticulous dealer 10k OCI. His recommendation was 5K OCI with filter which double the maintenance but significantly cheaper than a $7K new Toyota short block swap. So if 20 OCI a $70 =$1400 an additional $1400 would saved the customer from spending $7K for a rebuilt engine.
Car cars nut says he does not make money on OCI. Probably true. I really enjoy his videos.


By the way, the valve train and timing cover had zero varnish- probably synthetic oil changes. The piston oil control rings and cylinder walls were bar closing time after 1AM ….ugly.

 
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ATex7239 said:
It is 10 years old. Seems like whatever you’re doing is working regardless what the article says.
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What I am doing is that I never put much faith in Toyota’s dealer 10k OCI recommendation. Both vehicles have a 5K OCI warning message despite the dealers recommendation to disregard the 5K warning. There are two observations. 1st on the Venza, I once did a 6.5K OCI and noticed a small of amount black debris at bottom of the filter cartridge that wasn’t present in any 5K OCI. 2nd I did a Blackstone UOA at 5k, 10k and 14k on the same Fram Ultra filter with every 5K oil changes. The Fram did did its job practically blocking everything larger than 20 microns but the smaller 4 to 6 microns went through the roof. Yes, the Ultra can do 20k but the smaller particles starts to accumulate despite new oil every 5K.

Synthetic oils are rated 10k, 15k and 20k and probably can do that mileage but there is no filter that can effectively filter the 4-6 microns. Also u don’t have a tractor trailer size sump capacity.
 
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A few years ago my daughter purchased a 2013 Toyota Corolla with about 185k miles on it. With the recommended 0W20, it burned a lot of oil (I forget the exact amount anymore). Once we switched it to 5W30, it would still burn a little, but significantly less. About 230k on it now, I believe it will burn about a quart over a 5k oci of Napa full syn hm.
 
Although BITOG members are very technical, the general public has absolutely no idea what manufacturers do inside an engine, to make it tolerate an oil that would otherwise be too low in viscosity to properly protect the components. I am of the opinion that Toyota, Honda and a few other majors are best with regard to this, and coated timing chains, coated piston skirts, offset crankshafts and piston pins, mid tension, ultra thin hard faced rings, much larger rod bearings, roller followers and DLC (diamond like carbon "type" ) coatings are all necessary evils today.
 
AJB0009 said:
A few years ago my daughter purchased a 2013 Toyota Corolla with about 185k miles on it. With the recommended 0W20, it burned a lot of oil (I forget the exact amount anymore). Once we switched it to 5W30, it would still burn a little, but significantly less. About 230k on it now, I believe it will burn about a quart over a 5k oci of Napa full syn hm.
Click to expand...
Very similar to the car care nut situation except for the fact the engine is different. Another piston oil control rings written all over it.
 
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Dynamic Force 2.5 Toyota engine with 109,000+ thousand miles. Gets 40+ mpg on the highway and ZERO oil consumption. OCI's 7500-10,000 miles with 0w20 (Spec'd for 0w16). I'll run it 80 mph for hours on end about once a year with three adults and luggage on a specific trip...can sometimes still see 40 mpg on this trip, and no oil loss. Most frequent oil used was Pennzoil Platinum. One data point.
 
Patrick0525 said:
What I am doing is that I never put much faith in Toyota’s dealer 10k OCI recommendation. Both vehicles have a 5K OCI warning message despite the dealers recommendation to disregard the 5K warning. There are two observations. 1st on the Venza, I once did a 6.5K OCI and noticed a small of amount black debris at bottom of the filter cartridge that wasn’t present in any 5K OCI. 2nd I did a Blackstone UOA at 5k, 10k and 14k on the same Fram Ultra filter with every 5K oil changes. The Fram did did its job practically blocking everything larger than 20 microns but the smaller 4 to 6 microns went through the roof. Yes, the Ultra can do 20k but the smaller particles starts to accumulate despite new oil every 5K.

Synthetic oils are rated 10k, 15k and 20k and probably can do that mileage but there is no filter that can effectively filter the 4-6 microns. Also u don’t have a tractor trailer size sump capacity.
Click to expand...
My owner's manual is only 10k under normal conditions. Severe is 5k. I go 7000-8000 miles, given my commute is about 25 miles highway speeds and 5 miles city speeds with very few stops. Lately, I've had more "city miles" on weekends and for other reasons and I'm at 4800 on my last oil change. So I'll probably do about 6k. Same with my wife's Subaru... she's had more city driving so I'll probably do 5k-ish instead of 7000-8000 (even though the manual calls for 6k normal, I've always pushed it given the easy miles it often used to get).
 
AJB0009 said:
A few years ago my daughter purchased a 2013 Toyota Corolla with about 185k miles on it. With the recommended 0W20, it burned a lot of oil (I forget the exact amount anymore). Once we switched it to 5W30, it would still burn a little, but significantly less. About 230k on it now, I believe it will burn about a quart over a 5k oci of Napa full syn hm.
Click to expand...
I'll wait for someone to recommend oil with a 3-letter acronym to fix all your problems. Including the uncomfortable seats her Corolla has. Recently, these forums would lead you to believe it'll also bring peace to the world.
 
Patrick0525 said:
Read oil viscosity and piston ring article : late April 2024 RA newsletter.

https://www.rockauto.com/Newsletter/

Wife’s 2009 Lexus ES 350 5w-30
My 2014 Toyota Venza 0w-30
Both are 2GR-FE V6 engines
Currently the Lexus and Toyota piston ring set point to the same OE part number.

https://parts.lexus.com/p/Lexus__ES-350/Engine-Piston-Ring/62917049/130110P040.html


Can I assume that I can get improved longevity if my Venza moves to 5w-30 with the higher HTHS oil rating?
Click to expand...
I'm willing to get this is why TGMO has sky high moly it mos2 compared to almost everything else out on the market.
Except redline oils.
 
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