Originally Posted By: fdcg27
20W-20
Pfff... that just sounds funny to me. A multi grade oil that does... not... change... grades...
20W-20
Pfff... that just sounds funny to me. A multi grade oil that does... not... change... grades...
0W-20 oil required?
- Thread starter burgessdg
- Start date
- Status
My 2013 Mustang GT V8 calls for 5w20 and I cringe when I change the oil and put that thin stuff in! I know it's just a mental block as this is a guy that ran 20-50 in the summer and 10-40 in the winter of his Hondas back in the 1980's and they ran fantastic. I would never try running oil that heavy in my new Mustang but I have been tempted to use a full Synthetic 5-30.
Some people are just naturally skeptical of EVERYTHING the government does. 7% of Americans believe the moon landing was a hoax. I'm sure a large percentage of those people also believe that CAFE standards are harmful to engines even though there is no concrete proof.
Does anyone remember this study? It is old, from back in 2008 and describes the development of the VID fuel economy test for GF-5 vs GF-4.
To me the study looked pretty thorough but I don't claim to be an expert on the subject. The study looked at 0w-20 up to 10w-30 oils.
http://www.infineum.com/sitecollectiondocuments/notebooks/gf5/ResearchReport.pdf
To me the study looked pretty thorough but I don't claim to be an expert on the subject. The study looked at 0w-20 up to 10w-30 oils.
http://www.infineum.com/sitecollectiondocuments/notebooks/gf5/ResearchReport.pdf
Originally Posted By: HKPolice
Some people are just naturally skeptical of EVERYTHING the government does.
History, my friend... history.
Some people are just naturally skeptical of EVERYTHING the government does.
History, my friend... history.
Originally Posted By: Camprunner
My 2013 Mustang GT V8 calls for 5w20 and I cringe when I change the oil and put that thin stuff in! I know it's just a mental block as this is a guy that ran 20-50 in the summer and 10-40 in the winter of his Hondas back in the 1980's and they ran fantastic. I would never try running oil that heavy in my new Mustang but I have been tempted to use a full Synthetic 5-30.
Ford specs 5w-50 for your engine in certain applications. 5/10W-30 is probably about perfect for an all around oil.
My 2013 Mustang GT V8 calls for 5w20 and I cringe when I change the oil and put that thin stuff in! I know it's just a mental block as this is a guy that ran 20-50 in the summer and 10-40 in the winter of his Hondas back in the 1980's and they ran fantastic. I would never try running oil that heavy in my new Mustang but I have been tempted to use a full Synthetic 5-30.
Ford specs 5w-50 for your engine in certain applications. 5/10W-30 is probably about perfect for an all around oil.
Originally Posted By: Camprunner
My 2013 Mustang GT V8 calls for 5w20 and I cringe when I change the oil and put that thin stuff in! I know it's just a mental block as this is a guy that ran 20-50 in the summer and 10-40 in the winter of his Hondas back in the 1980's and they ran fantastic. I would never try running oil that heavy in my new Mustang but I have been tempted to use a full Synthetic 5-30.
5W30 would work fine in your Mustang. My 2010 F150 is still on her diet of 5W30.
My 2013 Mustang GT V8 calls for 5w20 and I cringe when I change the oil and put that thin stuff in! I know it's just a mental block as this is a guy that ran 20-50 in the summer and 10-40 in the winter of his Hondas back in the 1980's and they ran fantastic. I would never try running oil that heavy in my new Mustang but I have been tempted to use a full Synthetic 5-30.
5W30 would work fine in your Mustang. My 2010 F150 is still on her diet of 5W30.
Originally Posted By: jiffydarren
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
20W-20
Pfff... that just sounds funny to me. A multi grade oil that does... not... change... grades...
20W is a cold pumping spec...the 20 grade is at 100C...perfectly compatible, versus a "straight 20" with no cold pumping requirements.
20W20 would be labelled on this board as "really a 30", as it's HTHS is typically 2.9+ getting to 20 at 100C without VII.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
20W-20
Pfff... that just sounds funny to me. A multi grade oil that does... not... change... grades...
20W is a cold pumping spec...the 20 grade is at 100C...perfectly compatible, versus a "straight 20" with no cold pumping requirements.
20W20 would be labelled on this board as "really a 30", as it's HTHS is typically 2.9+ getting to 20 at 100C without VII.
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Lex94
"There are many advantages to the lighter 0w20 oils, and if your manufacture allows use of them and you aren't using them, your missing out"
That is the best non-answer I have read in a long time.
According to XM here are 4 ways AFE oils have benefit over other oils.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_Advanced_Fuel_Economy.aspx
If you trust Honda with your vehicle dollars then why don't you trust their engine builders to know what oil to use here in the USA?
I agree
I own a 2012 Honda Civic EX. This past summer, we (wife and I) went to Phoenix, then to Las Vegas then up to Sun Valley Idaho and then back to Texas. I use Mobil 1 0W20 AFE. I have had NO problems using this oil in this car. Even in the Vegas heat, no problem. I think Honda knows what this engine needs. Honda also has a good reputation that it would like to keep. They would not recommend an oil that would reduce engine longevity.
The only thing I noticed is that the Oil Life Monitor indicates 40% remaining already. I blame Vegas, considering I changed the oil just before the trip. Oil changed in June, trip was from July 1 to July 18
My 2013 Sonata recommends 5W20, I also use Mobil 1 0W20 AFE. No problems.
Originally Posted By: Lex94
"There are many advantages to the lighter 0w20 oils, and if your manufacture allows use of them and you aren't using them, your missing out"
That is the best non-answer I have read in a long time.
According to XM here are 4 ways AFE oils have benefit over other oils.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_Advanced_Fuel_Economy.aspx
If you trust Honda with your vehicle dollars then why don't you trust their engine builders to know what oil to use here in the USA?
I agree
I own a 2012 Honda Civic EX. This past summer, we (wife and I) went to Phoenix, then to Las Vegas then up to Sun Valley Idaho and then back to Texas. I use Mobil 1 0W20 AFE. I have had NO problems using this oil in this car. Even in the Vegas heat, no problem. I think Honda knows what this engine needs. Honda also has a good reputation that it would like to keep. They would not recommend an oil that would reduce engine longevity.
The only thing I noticed is that the Oil Life Monitor indicates 40% remaining already. I blame Vegas, considering I changed the oil just before the trip. Oil changed in June, trip was from July 1 to July 18
My 2013 Sonata recommends 5W20, I also use Mobil 1 0W20 AFE. No problems.
Originally Posted By: burgessdg
What's everyone think?
Have the 47 replies offered thus far helped?
What's everyone think?
Have the 47 replies offered thus far helped?
Manufacturers recommend different oil weights based on average operating conditions. The Middle East & Asia are warmer and cars spend most of their time idling in heavy traffic. Fuel is very cheap in most of the oil producing countries, so economy matters less too. The US has CAFE standards, but also lower highway speeds and cold enough weather that a 0 weight oil not only reduces wear on start-up, but allows a lighter duty starter motor and smaller battery. Europe has higher highway speeds - and more frequent towing by cars (greater sustained engine loads & oil thermal transfer requirements) but warmer winters. That is why the same engine might use a 0w-20 in the US, 5w-30 in Europe, and 10w-40 in AMEA.
Trust the engineers who designed your car. They want you to maximize your FE while protecting your engine.
Trust the engineers who designed your car. They want you to maximize your FE while protecting your engine.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Save the 0W-20 for the sewing machine.
Actually, I wouldn't even use it for that.
I realize your life goal is to be an oil hipster.
That's true. Look at the thin ILSAC 30 grade he uses.
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Save the 0W-20 for the sewing machine.
Actually, I wouldn't even use it for that.
I realize your life goal is to be an oil hipster.
That's true. Look at the thin ILSAC 30 grade he uses.
I just switched to Toyota 0W20 (on account of Caterham's posts) on my RX330 after using 5W30.
Very pleased - fuel economy has improved by at least 1MPG and engine is definitely quieter esp. cold.
Very pleased - fuel economy has improved by at least 1MPG and engine is definitely quieter esp. cold.
Originally Posted By: tig1
Shannow,
If 0-20 is inferrior, what wt. oil do you recommend for the OP and myself to use?
As per the SAE paper that I was directed to, as per Honda's claims, as per Ford's claims...the 20s are "adequate", "acceptable" etc...they provide "adequate", and "acceptable" performance as lubricants, while providing increased economy.
They (the 20s) are not some magical elixer that some in this thread would have people believe (*)...that was what I called out on the thread...the "many other advantages other than economy" that the 20s bring.
Was not dissing the 20s, in spite of what people would put in my mouth, just want someone to demonstrate the "other advantages".
(*) e.g. the Conoco valve train wear thread when someone suggested the reduced wear was due to the oil thinning...
Shannow,
If 0-20 is inferrior, what wt. oil do you recommend for the OP and myself to use?
As per the SAE paper that I was directed to, as per Honda's claims, as per Ford's claims...the 20s are "adequate", "acceptable" etc...they provide "adequate", and "acceptable" performance as lubricants, while providing increased economy.
They (the 20s) are not some magical elixer that some in this thread would have people believe (*)...that was what I called out on the thread...the "many other advantages other than economy" that the 20s bring.
Was not dissing the 20s, in spite of what people would put in my mouth, just want someone to demonstrate the "other advantages".
(*) e.g. the Conoco valve train wear thread when someone suggested the reduced wear was due to the oil thinning...
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: tig1
Shannow,
If 0-20 is inferrior, what wt. oil do you recommend for the OP and myself to use?
As per the SAE paper that I was directed to, as per Honda's claims, as per Ford's claims...the 20s are "adequate", "acceptable" etc...they provide "adequate", and "acceptable" performance as lubricants, while providing increased economy.
They (the 20s) are not some magical elixer that some in this thread would have people believe (*)...that was what I called out on the thread...the "many other advantages other than economy" that the 20s bring.
Was not dissing the 20s, in spite of what people would put in my mouth, just want someone to demonstrate the "other advantages".
(*) e.g. the Conoco valve train wear thread when someone suggested the reduced wear was due to the oil thinning...
A while back I took a little heat for mentioning the choice of words as well. IIRC adequate was the word that landed me in the heat. With all the words in the English language why pick adequate? Wouldn't you feel a whole lot better if they substituted superior for adequate? Maybe legally they can't? Makes you wonder doesn't it? Ah well maybe it's just me.
These debates and discussions will go on as long as Bitog remains on the www.
BTW I'm not dissing the 20's either, just bringing up a point about word selection.
Originally Posted By: tig1
Shannow,
If 0-20 is inferrior, what wt. oil do you recommend for the OP and myself to use?
As per the SAE paper that I was directed to, as per Honda's claims, as per Ford's claims...the 20s are "adequate", "acceptable" etc...they provide "adequate", and "acceptable" performance as lubricants, while providing increased economy.
They (the 20s) are not some magical elixer that some in this thread would have people believe (*)...that was what I called out on the thread...the "many other advantages other than economy" that the 20s bring.
Was not dissing the 20s, in spite of what people would put in my mouth, just want someone to demonstrate the "other advantages".
(*) e.g. the Conoco valve train wear thread when someone suggested the reduced wear was due to the oil thinning...
A while back I took a little heat for mentioning the choice of words as well. IIRC adequate was the word that landed me in the heat. With all the words in the English language why pick adequate? Wouldn't you feel a whole lot better if they substituted superior for adequate? Maybe legally they can't? Makes you wonder doesn't it? Ah well maybe it's just me.
BTW I'm not dissing the 20's either, just bringing up a point about word selection.
What differences do you believe you would see in the structure of the oil when comparing a 0W20 vs. a 0W30 oil after 7,500 miles ? Would there be a concern for the 30W sheering down to a 20W or more prone to additive loss due to larger delta from 0W to 30 vs. the 0W20 ?
Why do trucking corp still use 15w40 or single weight?as much as oil companies would like you to believe it still Mather the viscosity .but it is situational.a truck climbing the i77 hill in va will need all it can to keep it within range ,same with car.on average tbo99% of people should just check the price and stick to car maker oil change interval.if you hear the engine play piano .even at 2000 miles time for an oil changes(I assumed you use your local rating max ,sn for car in USA,cj-4 for trucks ,gf-5 on the old continent etc
As for why car maker spec for specific oil ?they abide by the rule .they often have to simplify in area so they can keep they cost per miles of a specific car low etc,pollution,fuel economy requirement .witch keep going up
Originally Posted By: splinter
Originally Posted By: burgessdg
What's everyone think?
Have the 47 replies offered thus far helped?
His question was better than most of the answers. He understood the distinction between "recommended" and "required" when considering use of 0w20 oil. Most people miss the point that when at operating temperature, 0w20 will be in the same range of viscosity and has the same minimum HTHS as 5w20 and monograde 20. Even more people don't understand that the kinematic viscosity of most 20-weights cluster in the upper third of the range, and the viscosity of most 5w30's cluster in the lower third of the range. So when somebody says they're going to put a 30-weight in an engine spec'd for a 20-weight, the actual change in viscosity is only about 15%. Hardly a day vs. night change.
Originally Posted By: burgessdg
What's everyone think?
Have the 47 replies offered thus far helped?
His question was better than most of the answers. He understood the distinction between "recommended" and "required" when considering use of 0w20 oil. Most people miss the point that when at operating temperature, 0w20 will be in the same range of viscosity and has the same minimum HTHS as 5w20 and monograde 20. Even more people don't understand that the kinematic viscosity of most 20-weights cluster in the upper third of the range, and the viscosity of most 5w30's cluster in the lower third of the range. So when somebody says they're going to put a 30-weight in an engine spec'd for a 20-weight, the actual change in viscosity is only about 15%. Hardly a day vs. night change.
Chevy recommends 0W-20 for their new V8 trucks with the new Ecotec 3 engines. Curiously, the V6 truck engines still get 5W-30. IMO, follow the manufacturers recommendations, but, if you're towing something heavy, I don't think it will hurt to go a little heavier on the oil.
- Status
Similar threads
