0W-16 or 0W-20 for road trip?

pbm

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I have 9 jugs of SuperTech 0W-16 that I got on clearance. I just wanted something a bit higher quality for this specific road trip. It’s going to be about 5,000 miles with a mix of higher speeds with a heavy load and quite a bit of idling time as well. Steep grades as well.
Does the ST 0w16 meet Toyota's specs? I remember it came and went pretty quickly at Walmart.

PS: I'd run 0w20 on that trip.
 

pbm

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Toyota has no specific spec other than API Resource Conserving Mutli-grade oil or ILSAC Multi-grade oil.
Gotcha.....I assumed that 0w16's had some PAO or other stout ingredients in them and I'm wondering if ST was built as well as Mobil1 which cost a lot more? Just wondering. Having said that I would have no problem using ST syn. in 0w20, 5w20, 5w30 etc...
 
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All I've seen is speculation and confirmation bias. If anyone has posted data showing engines in other countries last longer or have less oil related problems than in the US, I don't recall ever seeing it.
Gee, I dunno. Except for the foreign oil recommendations for the same engine as OP's, no one in this thread is posting anything more than opinion.

How about this picture. There are many examples. Of course we have zero maintenance history...

Joking aside, there HAVE been numerous examples of vehicles in the US being specified for a much thinner oil than overseas units with the same engine. Have a look around and you will find that ZeeOSix is correct.

29369BA6-1909-42C9-AF4C-0D136E99F695.jpeg
 
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The vehicle manufacturers and their engineers aren't going to specify the whole range of oil viscosity if the engine can't take it - regardless of what country the vehicle is sold and used. Therefore, the engine isn't purposely "designed" around any specific oil viscosity. It may be true that some engines that specify 0W-16 and the future 0W-8 might have some tweaks to the bearings (wider area, etc) to compensate ... but doesn't mean they could also use a higher viscosity.

Vehicles are designed to be able to use the whole spectrum if the manual, as shown in other counties for the same engine calls out. Manufacturers are however going to specify the lowest viscosity possible in the USA to meet CAFE requirements without causing major wear or damage. Way too many studies conducted that mention lower viscosity is more apt to cause some increased wear (less MOFT) vs a bit thicker oil with other factors constant. Lots of papers showing that HTHS of 2.6 cP is where the onset of some engine parts start showing noticeable increased wear. The piston ring pack wear seems to be pretty sensitive to HTHS. Cruising around at low speed and low load with thin oil is fine, but start stressing the motor above that and thicker oil is beneficial because it gives more MOFT and therefore makes it harder for moving parts to contact and wear.
 
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IveBeenRued

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Does the ST 0w16 meet Toyota's specs? I remember it came and went pretty quickly at Walmart.

PS: I'd run 0w20 on that trip.
Yes, all the jugs are API SN Plus Resource Conserving. Got em for $3.50/jug ($0.70/quart).

I’m still up in the air but I’m currently leaning towards M1AFE 0W-16 just this trip but just running it for 5K. I’m switching back to my ST 0W-16 after the trip. Direct_Rejection’s experience with these motors and 0W-16 gives me confidence that my motor will be fine with the low viscosity oils.

Does anyone have any appreciable mileage figures with one of these motors running 0W-20?
 
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Yes, all the jugs are API SN Plus Resource Conserving. Got em for $3.50/jug ($0.70/quart).

I’m still up in the air but I’m currently leaning towards M1AFE 0W-16 just this trip but just running it for 5K. I’m switching back to my ST 0W-16 after the trip. Direct_Rejection’s experience with these motors and 0W-16 gives me confidence that my motor will be fine with the low viscosity oils.

Does anyone have any appreciable mileage figures with one of these motors running 0W-20?
M1 AFE and TGMO 0W16 can now be obtained with SP/GF-6B labels. The associated new tests require an even better oil.
 

OVERKILL

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The vehicle manufacturers and their engineers aren't going to specify the whole range of oil viscosity if the engine can't take it - regardless of what country the vehicle is sold and used. Therefore, the engine isn't purposely "designed" around any specific oil viscosity. It may be true that some engines that specify 0W-16 and the future 0W-8 might have some tweaks to the bearings (wider area, etc) to compensate ... but doesn't mean they could also use a higher viscosity.

Vehicles are designed to be able to use the whole spectrum if the manual, as shown in other counties for the same engine calls out. Manufacturers are however going to specify the lowest viscosity possible in the USA to meet CAFE requirements without causing major wear or damage. Way too many studies conducted that mention lower viscosity is more apt to cause some increased wear (less MOFT) vs a bit thicker oil with other factors constant. Lots of papers showing that HTHS of 2.6 cSt is where the onset of some engine parts start showing noticeable increased wear. The piston ring pack wear seems to be pretty sensitive to HTHS.

Yup.

This is why we see FCA's 6.4L spec 0w-40 vs the 5w-20 spec'd for the 5.7L. Why the regular Mustang GT spec'd 5w-20 while the "Track Pack" version of the same engine, with more generous thermal controls spec'd 5w-50. GM has multiple visc recommendations in the Corvette and I believe Camaro manual if you are tracking the vehicle. Under extreme usage, a heavier oil may be necessary. Ford implemented thermal castration, as have other marques, to protect the engine in applications that didn't have multi-visc recommendations, like the non track pack Mustang GT for example.

Of course since "back in the day" the OEM's have gone to great lengths to improve thermal controls, which in turn allow for the use of thinner lubricants, by keeping them cooler, and thus viscosity higher. Both my vehicles have coolant/oil heat exchangers which aide in both heating the oil faster, and preventing it from getting hotter than the coolant.

When you want to really push the viscosity envelope, like the Japanese OEM's have been doing, the fitment of wider journals/bearings in order to tolerate this is performed (Honda for example).
 

jurko

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Mobil1 US oil selector for A25A-FXS Engine you get M1 0W-16 AFE
Mobil1 Australia oil selector for A25A-FXS Engine you get M1 0W-20, Mobil Super 3000 0W-20 and M1 0W-30.
Australia does not have CAFE implemented so higher grades are recommended.
 
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Gee, I dunno. Except for the foreign oil recommendations for the same engine as OP's, no one in this thread is posting anything more than opinion.

How about this picture. There are many examples. Of course we have zero maintenance history...

Joking aside, there HAVE been numerous examples of vehicles in the US being specified for a much thinner oil than overseas units with the same engine. Have a look around and you will find that ZeeOSix is correct.

View attachment 52614
You're extrapolation is ambitious but doesn't answer the challenge. Do engines in other regions specified for thicker oil last longer or have less oil related problems?
 
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Being that this engine is so precise, with features such as laser clad intake valve seats, sharp angled oval shaped valves, diamond like carbon honing at the pistons, I would imagine that any abnormal wear would be problematic.

I have not personally conducted a teardown, and therefore rely on experts with experiences specific to this engine.

There are plenty of circumstances where common sense and thicker oil should be used...not here.

M1 AFE and TGMO 0W16 can now be obtained with SP/GF-6B labels. The associated new tests require an even better oil.

Good advice. I plan on using 0w16 in my new Toyota hybrid. I've noticed that most are SP/GF-6B. I'm leaning towards M1 AFE or Valvoline as they are available in 5qt jugs for a reasonable price.
 

jurko

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Mobil1 US oil selector for A25A-FXS Engine you get M1 0W-16 AFE
Mobil1 Australia oil selector for A25A-FXS Engine you get M1 0W-20, Mobil Super 3000 0W-20 and M1 0W-30.
Australia does not have CAFE implemented so higher grades are recommended.
Castrol Australia oil selector for A25A-FXS Engine.
Castrol.jpg
 

IveBeenRued

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M1 AFE and TGMO 0W16 can now be obtained with SP/GF-6B labels. The associated new tests require an even better oil.
That’s why I’m leaning towards a new jug of AFE for this trip, I figured it’s a bit more stout than my SN Plus SuperTech clearance jugs. I have enough SuperTech for another 45K miles using 5K OCIs; once my supply is exhausted, it will be getting M1AFE or Valvoline, whichever I can source cheaply.
 
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There have been dozens of threads showing a wide range of recommended specified viscosity in the owner's manuals for many of the same engines used in other countries. Only in the USA the owner's manuals specify the lowest viscosity possible, with maybe a stipulation to use one grade thicker for extreme use conditions. The USA oil call-outs in OMs are obviously CAFE driven, and not engineering driven. If the car manufacturers don't call it out in this matter in the USA, they don't meet the CAFE requirements ... same thing with showing the oil viscosity on the oil fill cap.
Toyota put a “sticker“ on my Lexus and Tacoma. That sticker was easy to remove. And they run fine onnhigher viscosities. Thankfully I had the foresight to remove that sticker.
 
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You're extrapolation is ambitious but doesn't answer the challenge. Do engines in other regions specified for thicker oil last longer or have less oil related problems?
I have no data.

IveBeenRued, apologies for the thread hijack. Your choice sounds fine.

I'm out.
 
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Toyota put a “sticker“ on my Lexus and Tacoma. That sticker was easy to remove. And they run fine onnhigher viscosities. Thankfully I had the foresight to remove that sticker.

OK. Did you put Duck Tape over the oil filler cap (where it also tells you what grade to use) ?


Yessir you said there was personal experience and I requested (in what was intended as respectful) an explanation, but got none. Still asking.
I have been a delivery driver subcontractor for all of my adult life. 3.5 million miles accrued, almost all on local roads. There has been a constant effort to balance efficiency and durability here. My bottom line is involved. There is no thick vs thin agenda on my part. I have made plenty of posts on BITOG substantiating what I am claiming and opining.

Always light hearted, Kuato. Now, can you get that dude in the back of that HiLux to stop pointing that anti tank gun at me, for using 0W16 ?
 
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OK. Did you put Duck Tape over the oil filler cap (where it also tells you what grade to use) ?



I have been a delivery driver subcontractor for all of my adult life. 3.5 million miles accrued, almost all on local roads. There has been a constant effort to balance efficiency and durability here. My bottom line is involved. There is no thick vs thin agenda on my part. I have made plenty of posts on BITOG substantiating what I am claiming and opining.

Always light hearted, Kuato. Now, can you get that dude in the back of that HiLux to stop pointing that anti tank gun at me, for using 0W16 ?
My oil fill cap doesn’t say a thing. It’s just a plain plastic oil fill cap. oil fill caps are not a great place to get good information. I have had some that said “BMW recommends Castrol” and I didn’t have engine failure when mobil1 was used. I wouldn’t give that. much authority toan easily changed out, by a manufacture or an owner, screw on part. It can easily be changed to am”TRD” filter with no viscosity recommendations in any color that suits your fancy to match your car or the oil bottles of your choice.

300DC8D6-B125-4B64-858C-D91DF3FF8117.jpeg
 
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