You can only lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink it, the shop owner got a steal of a deal.
06 Colorado, Dreaded P0305 Code...GM says SOL
- Thread starter Brigadier
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Quote:
Having the cylinder head repaired along with some gaskets/head bolts/fluids would have got this truck back into service without a huge bill.
What kind of numbers are we talking here? Over $1000 or under $1000? And by how much?
Having the cylinder head repaired along with some gaskets/head bolts/fluids would have got this truck back into service without a huge bill.
What kind of numbers are we talking here? Over $1000 or under $1000? And by how much?
I would say I decent indy could do this for under 2K or less all in and out the door. Not a lot for a truck with only 114K on it, that not a lot of payments on another vehicle.
I thought it was a little strange that a cracked head could essentially scrap a car, and then the shop bought it.
Second opinion + BITOG knowledge! OP ripped off by "trusted" mechanic, that's a story I have never heard before.
Second opinion + BITOG knowledge! OP ripped off by "trusted" mechanic, that's a story I have never heard before.
The head isn't even cracked its just guides and seats. In 40 years of doing this work I have never scrapped an engine never mind an otherwise decent vehicle for such a mid level repair.
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Quote:
Having the cylinder head repaired along with some gaskets/head bolts/fluids would have got this truck back into service without a huge bill.
What kind of numbers are we talking here? Over $1000 or under $1000? And by how much?
Labor....8.0 hrs, Lets say $800.
Head Gasket GM OE....$227.00
Head Bolts......@$100
VC/IM/EM Gaskets......@100
Oil/Filter/Antifreeze.....@100
Machine Shop labor & parts....@$400
$1,727....Easily knocked down if aftermarket parts are used.
Quote:
Having the cylinder head repaired along with some gaskets/head bolts/fluids would have got this truck back into service without a huge bill.
What kind of numbers are we talking here? Over $1000 or under $1000? And by how much?
Labor....8.0 hrs, Lets say $800.
Head Gasket GM OE....$227.00
Head Bolts......@$100
VC/IM/EM Gaskets......@100
Oil/Filter/Antifreeze.....@100
Machine Shop labor & parts....@$400
$1,727....Easily knocked down if aftermarket parts are used.
There i
Originally Posted By: clinebarger
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Quote:
Having the cylinder head repaired along with some gaskets/head bolts/fluids would have got this truck back into service without a huge bill.
What kind of numbers are we talking here? Over $1000 or under $1000? And by how much?
Labor....8.0 hrs, Lets say $800.
Head Gasket GM OE....$227.00
Head Bolts......@$100
VC/IM/EM Gaskets......@100
Oil/Filter/Antifreeze.....@100
Machine Shop labor & parts....@$400
$1,727....Easily knocked down if aftermarket parts are used.
There is no machine shop repair. Per GM, the head must be replaced. That is per the TSB.
Originally Posted By: clinebarger
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Quote:
Having the cylinder head repaired along with some gaskets/head bolts/fluids would have got this truck back into service without a huge bill.
What kind of numbers are we talking here? Over $1000 or under $1000? And by how much?
Labor....8.0 hrs, Lets say $800.
Head Gasket GM OE....$227.00
Head Bolts......@$100
VC/IM/EM Gaskets......@100
Oil/Filter/Antifreeze.....@100
Machine Shop labor & parts....@$400
$1,727....Easily knocked down if aftermarket parts are used.
There is no machine shop repair. Per GM, the head must be replaced. That is per the TSB.
Originally Posted By: clinebarger
Originally Posted By: 4WD
Originally Posted By: clinebarger
The Timing Chain Tensioner is activated with OIL PRESSURE!!! If it was bad.....You would KNOW it. You weren't complaining of noise or Camshaft position/correlation trouble codes? There is a special tool that allows removal of the cylinder head without removing the Timing Cover......Kent Moore EN48464, It prevents the tensioner from ratcheting out of place.
Your Balance Shaft chain (If the vehicles was maintained) is probably Okay!!!!
Interesting comment from someone who is clearly a top notch mechanic … watched a couple Canadian mechanics change them without pulling the motor … so I’m puzzled ?
I was a GM Dealer Tech when the 4.2L Atlas engines first came out. I went through all service issue headaches that come with a all new engine design.
First off.....The Altas can be be completely overhauled with the Block in the vehicle, Even the Cylinder Bore Sleeves can be changed! Weather or not it's FASTER to do a "In-Frame" is up for debate?
The Oil Pump is bolted to/part of the front cover, To remove the front cover.....You must first remove the Oil Pan & Pick-Up Tube. Not a big deal on a 2wd model....Quite a bit more work on a 4wd model.
There are NO referencing Timing Marks on the engine ANYWHERE! The ONLY way to cull a Timing Chain is IF the PCM is setting Camshaft Position error codes P0014 &/or P0016.
Now....There are Timing Chain noise issues that can arise from worn out Timing Chain/Guides-Shoes/VTT Phaser Wear/Maxed out Tensioner. Although it's been my experience that this also sets P0014 &/or P0016.
As I stated already (Completely Ignored by most).....Free Play in the Timing Chain with the engine off is 100% normal!!! FACTS sure are pesky problems when they don't fit the narrative.
I have NO clue how the Balance Shafts Chain got brought up in this thread? Other than to "Pile-On" by the OP or the Mechanic/Shop Owner.....Or a combination of all three??
In the end......Using the Kent Moore tool, Having the cylinder head repaired along with some gaskets/head bolts/fluids would have got this truck back into service without a huge bill. I guess that doesn't make for a good DRAMA filled GM bashing thread?
Who is piling on? Wow, what a snowflake.
Again, if you read the GM TSB referenced, there is no repairing the head. It must be replaced.
Sheesh, people can't read these days.
Originally Posted By: 4WD
Originally Posted By: clinebarger
The Timing Chain Tensioner is activated with OIL PRESSURE!!! If it was bad.....You would KNOW it. You weren't complaining of noise or Camshaft position/correlation trouble codes? There is a special tool that allows removal of the cylinder head without removing the Timing Cover......Kent Moore EN48464, It prevents the tensioner from ratcheting out of place.
Your Balance Shaft chain (If the vehicles was maintained) is probably Okay!!!!
Interesting comment from someone who is clearly a top notch mechanic … watched a couple Canadian mechanics change them without pulling the motor … so I’m puzzled ?
I was a GM Dealer Tech when the 4.2L Atlas engines first came out. I went through all service issue headaches that come with a all new engine design.
First off.....The Altas can be be completely overhauled with the Block in the vehicle, Even the Cylinder Bore Sleeves can be changed! Weather or not it's FASTER to do a "In-Frame" is up for debate?
The Oil Pump is bolted to/part of the front cover, To remove the front cover.....You must first remove the Oil Pan & Pick-Up Tube. Not a big deal on a 2wd model....Quite a bit more work on a 4wd model.
There are NO referencing Timing Marks on the engine ANYWHERE! The ONLY way to cull a Timing Chain is IF the PCM is setting Camshaft Position error codes P0014 &/or P0016.
Now....There are Timing Chain noise issues that can arise from worn out Timing Chain/Guides-Shoes/VTT Phaser Wear/Maxed out Tensioner. Although it's been my experience that this also sets P0014 &/or P0016.
As I stated already (Completely Ignored by most).....Free Play in the Timing Chain with the engine off is 100% normal!!! FACTS sure are pesky problems when they don't fit the narrative.
I have NO clue how the Balance Shafts Chain got brought up in this thread? Other than to "Pile-On" by the OP or the Mechanic/Shop Owner.....Or a combination of all three??
In the end......Using the Kent Moore tool, Having the cylinder head repaired along with some gaskets/head bolts/fluids would have got this truck back into service without a huge bill. I guess that doesn't make for a good DRAMA filled GM bashing thread?
Who is piling on? Wow, what a snowflake.
Again, if you read the GM TSB referenced, there is no repairing the head. It must be replaced.
Sheesh, people can't read these days.
Originally Posted By: maxdustington
I thought it was a little strange that a cracked head could essentially scrap a car, and then the shop bought it.
Second opinion + BITOG knowledge! OP ripped off by "trusted" mechanic, that's a story I have never heard before.
New head assembly, gaskets, timing chains(front and rear) and sprockets, exhaust manifold with built in cat(#5 pipe broken completely thru), labor....more than KBB for the truck.
Not a hard decision.
I thought it was a little strange that a cracked head could essentially scrap a car, and then the shop bought it.
Second opinion + BITOG knowledge! OP ripped off by "trusted" mechanic, that's a story I have never heard before.
New head assembly, gaskets, timing chains(front and rear) and sprockets, exhaust manifold with built in cat(#5 pipe broken completely thru), labor....more than KBB for the truck.
Not a hard decision.
Originally Posted By: Brigadier
Who is piling on? Wow, what a snowflake.
Again, if you read the GM TSB referenced, there is no repairing the head. It must be replaced.
Sheesh, people can't read these days.
Is the TSB you copied & pasted even "Active"? A internal TSB telling dealer techs to replace a cylinder head doesn't mean the cylinder head cannot be repaired.
How was the Balance Shafts Chain condemned? Did you have Timing Chain noise &/or Camshaft Correlation DTC's to condemn the Timing Chain components?
What with the name calling....Are you 10 years old?
Who is piling on? Wow, what a snowflake.
Again, if you read the GM TSB referenced, there is no repairing the head. It must be replaced.
Sheesh, people can't read these days.
Is the TSB you copied & pasted even "Active"? A internal TSB telling dealer techs to replace a cylinder head doesn't mean the cylinder head cannot be repaired.
How was the Balance Shafts Chain condemned? Did you have Timing Chain noise &/or Camshaft Correlation DTC's to condemn the Timing Chain components?
What with the name calling....Are you 10 years old?
Originally Posted By: clinebarger
Originally Posted By: Brigadier
Who is piling on? Wow, what a snowflake.
Again, if you read the GM TSB referenced, there is no repairing the head. It must be replaced.
Sheesh, people can't read these days.
Is the TSB you copied & pasted even "Active"? A internal TSB telling dealer techs to replace a cylinder head doesn't mean the cylinder head cannot be repaired.
How was the Balance Shafts Chain condemned? Did you have Timing Chain noise &/or Camshaft Correlation DTC's to condemn the Timing Chain components?
What with the name calling....Are you 10 years old?
It is all moot now. I sold the truck with the POS Atlas engine and have moved on to a Non-GM vehicle.
Originally Posted By: Brigadier
Who is piling on? Wow, what a snowflake.
Again, if you read the GM TSB referenced, there is no repairing the head. It must be replaced.
Sheesh, people can't read these days.
Is the TSB you copied & pasted even "Active"? A internal TSB telling dealer techs to replace a cylinder head doesn't mean the cylinder head cannot be repaired.
How was the Balance Shafts Chain condemned? Did you have Timing Chain noise &/or Camshaft Correlation DTC's to condemn the Timing Chain components?
What with the name calling....Are you 10 years old?
It is all moot now. I sold the truck with the POS Atlas engine and have moved on to a Non-GM vehicle.
Nick1994
$100 site donor 2024
Originally Posted By: Brigadier
It is all moot now. I sold the truck with the POS Atlas engine and have moved on to a Non-GM vehicle.
Hopefully you choose a vehicle that isn't known for not being junk.
Like a V6 early 2000's Honda and the transmission blows
Or a Nissan where the coolant mixes with the transmission fluid
Or a Honda with the engines that the block cracks
Or a Dodge with defective cylinder heads in the Pentastar
Or a Jeep Cherokee with a 9 speed tranny that fails
Or an older Subaru and the head gaskets fail
Or a 4.6/5.4 Ford and the spark plugs shoot out
Or a VW TDI and the HPFP or DPF fails
Or a 11-14 Sonata and the engine blows
Or a Chevy with a 5.3 and the cylinder deactivation takes out the camshaft
All car makes have had their bad runs, and having a car that's known for being a turd, and it failing, I wouldn't cross the whole make out.
It is all moot now. I sold the truck with the POS Atlas engine and have moved on to a Non-GM vehicle.
Hopefully you choose a vehicle that isn't known for not being junk.
Like a V6 early 2000's Honda and the transmission blows
Or a Nissan where the coolant mixes with the transmission fluid
Or a Honda with the engines that the block cracks
Or a Dodge with defective cylinder heads in the Pentastar
Or a Jeep Cherokee with a 9 speed tranny that fails
Or an older Subaru and the head gaskets fail
Or a 4.6/5.4 Ford and the spark plugs shoot out
Or a VW TDI and the HPFP or DPF fails
Or a 11-14 Sonata and the engine blows
Or a Chevy with a 5.3 and the cylinder deactivation takes out the camshaft
All car makes have had their bad runs, and having a car that's known for being a turd, and it failing, I wouldn't cross the whole make out.
Originally Posted By: Brigadier
There i
Originally Posted By: clinebarger
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Quote:
Having the cylinder head repaired along with some gaskets/head bolts/fluids would have got this truck back into service without a huge bill.
What kind of numbers are we talking here? Over $1000 or under $1000? And by how much?
Labor....8.0 hrs, Lets say $800.
Head Gasket GM OE....$227.00
Head Bolts......@$100
VC/IM/EM Gaskets......@100
Oil/Filter/Antifreeze.....@100
Machine Shop labor & parts....@$400
$1,727....Easily knocked down if aftermarket parts are used.
There is no machine shop repair. Per GM, the head must be replaced. That is per the TSB.
Per GM the head they sell to replace it is remanufactured. The reason they say replace only is machine shop work is not done at the dealer level and GM cannot stand behind and warranty third party machine shop work.
If for some reason the machine shop buggered the work GM doesn't want to own it or go through the hoops of collection from that shop.
Just saying.
There i
Originally Posted By: clinebarger
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Quote:
Having the cylinder head repaired along with some gaskets/head bolts/fluids would have got this truck back into service without a huge bill.
What kind of numbers are we talking here? Over $1000 or under $1000? And by how much?
Labor....8.0 hrs, Lets say $800.
Head Gasket GM OE....$227.00
Head Bolts......@$100
VC/IM/EM Gaskets......@100
Oil/Filter/Antifreeze.....@100
Machine Shop labor & parts....@$400
$1,727....Easily knocked down if aftermarket parts are used.
There is no machine shop repair. Per GM, the head must be replaced. That is per the TSB.
Per GM the head they sell to replace it is remanufactured. The reason they say replace only is machine shop work is not done at the dealer level and GM cannot stand behind and warranty third party machine shop work.
If for some reason the machine shop buggered the work GM doesn't want to own it or go through the hoops of collection from that shop.
Just saying.
Well, this was an interesting read.....
GM ain’t gonna care or do much. When I got my Buick in 2012 it had a leaky rear main and bad sending unit.
1st stealership said nothing was wrong, 2nd told me bring it in then after I get there (33 mi drive) they want a $80 diagnostic fee despite having a year of warranty left and lie to me claiming they told me this over the phone, then I find a Caddy dealer who fixes it no questions asked but then screws up their body work years later and blames me.
Both incidents I called GM and the attitude was basically too bad, take it elsewhere. Even had an Indian guy laugh at me over the phone when I told him no one was honoring the warranty. eventually stopped answering their calls in regards to repairs and left a lengthy review on the dealers google reviews. Glad I’ve got my service manual cause those [censored] will rip you off any which way they can.
1st stealership said nothing was wrong, 2nd told me bring it in then after I get there (33 mi drive) they want a $80 diagnostic fee despite having a year of warranty left and lie to me claiming they told me this over the phone, then I find a Caddy dealer who fixes it no questions asked but then screws up their body work years later and blames me.
Both incidents I called GM and the attitude was basically too bad, take it elsewhere. Even had an Indian guy laugh at me over the phone when I told him no one was honoring the warranty. eventually stopped answering their calls in regards to repairs and left a lengthy review on the dealers google reviews. Glad I’ve got my service manual cause those [censored] will rip you off any which way they can.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: clinebarger
First off.....The Altas can be be completely overhauled with the Block in the vehicle, Even the Cylinder Bore Sleeves can be changed! Weather or not it's FASTER to do a "In-Frame" is up for debate?
The Oil Pump is bolted to/part of the front cover, To remove the front cover.....You must first remove the Oil Pan & Pick-Up Tube. Not a big deal on a 2wd model....Quite a bit more work on a 4wd model.
There are NO referencing Timing Marks on the engine ANYWHERE! The ONLY way to cull a Timing Chain is IF the PCM is setting Camshaft Position error codes P0014 &/or P0016.
I didn't know the cylinder sleeves can be removed and pressed in like a heavy-duty diesel engine or a VW Wasserboxer.
I was reading a repair article as well as a story in one of the Babcox mags(Counterman) and the only way to index this engine or so is said is to make sure the word Delphi on the VVT assembly almost lines up with the horizontal edge of the timing cover/valve cover junction and all the painted links on the chain line up with the notches on the timing gears. Almost like timing a Honda with a chain.
First off.....The Altas can be be completely overhauled with the Block in the vehicle, Even the Cylinder Bore Sleeves can be changed! Weather or not it's FASTER to do a "In-Frame" is up for debate?
The Oil Pump is bolted to/part of the front cover, To remove the front cover.....You must first remove the Oil Pan & Pick-Up Tube. Not a big deal on a 2wd model....Quite a bit more work on a 4wd model.
There are NO referencing Timing Marks on the engine ANYWHERE! The ONLY way to cull a Timing Chain is IF the PCM is setting Camshaft Position error codes P0014 &/or P0016.
I didn't know the cylinder sleeves can be removed and pressed in like a heavy-duty diesel engine or a VW Wasserboxer.
I was reading a repair article as well as a story in one of the Babcox mags(Counterman) and the only way to index this engine or so is said is to make sure the word Delphi on the VVT assembly almost lines up with the horizontal edge of the timing cover/valve cover junction and all the painted links on the chain line up with the notches on the timing gears. Almost like timing a Honda with a chain.
For sure they can, many heads need heating to remove guides and seats, its a normal part of the job with aluminum heads.
The aluminum heads are not being heat treated but headed to expand the metal around the guides and seats making removal and installation easier and when it cools tightens around those parts to prevent loosening at operating temp.
If this was not done the result would be loose guides and dropped seats. A decent shop will also dye check the head and plane it with the correct surface finish for best sealing of the gasket.
The aluminum heads are not being heat treated but headed to expand the metal around the guides and seats making removal and installation easier and when it cools tightens around those parts to prevent loosening at operating temp.
If this was not done the result would be loose guides and dropped seats. A decent shop will also dye check the head and plane it with the correct surface finish for best sealing of the gasket.
Originally Posted By: Brigadier
Well, seeing as the problem is a heat treat specification issue, I doubt any local machine shop is going to heat treat the head to the proper temper......
I will bet that they can do a better job than the assembly line, especially in 2018 with a decade of experience.
Colorados are popular commercial vehicles here, think about the profits that a shop could make repairing the heads.
Well, seeing as the problem is a heat treat specification issue, I doubt any local machine shop is going to heat treat the head to the proper temper......
I will bet that they can do a better job than the assembly line, especially in 2018 with a decade of experience.
Colorados are popular commercial vehicles here, think about the profits that a shop could make repairing the heads.
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