05 4Runner V8, 4900miles Valvoline Syn+ AutoRX+MMO

[casper]

Blackstone Labs
03/06/09
Valvoline Synpower 10w30
Toyota 4.7L V-8 (2UZ-FE)
4,951 Miles


ALUMINUM 1
CHROMIUM 0
IRON 5
COPPER 0
LEAD 0
TIN 0
MOLYBDENUM 20
NICKEL 0
MANGANESE 0
SILVER 0
TITANIUM 0
POTASSIUM 2
BORON 9
SILICON 5
SODIUM 25
CALCIUM 1898
MAGNESIUM 14
PHOSPHORUS 594
ZINC 691
BARIUM 0


PROPERTIES
cSt Viscosity @ 100°C 9.96
SUS Viscosity @ 210°F 59.1
Flashpoint in °F 360
Fuel % 0.8
Antifreeze % 0
Water % 0
Insolubles % 0.3
TBN 2.6
TAN


Remarks:
The very nice wear trends are continuing in your 4Runner engine at 51,131 miles. This oil was run just a few more miles than the last, and wear actually improved. A little fuel turned up here, so you must have been doing some city driving or more idling over the last oil change. The fuel isn't hurting anything and it is probably unavoidable. It didn't affect the viscosity at all, and no other contaminants were present. Our average oil sample from this type engine is taken after 6000 miles, so we think you could go a little longer, if you wanted. The TBN was 2.6, still fine.






Well im not sure what is causing the fuel dilution but my previous UOA's (2 years ago and 20K miles) showed less than 0.5% I am doing more stop and go traffic for my commute these days but I wouldnt think that it would cause such the issue.

 

[c3po]

I see you are running a Maintenance Dose of auto-rx, and MMO.

Did you have MMO in there the whole time.

 

[casper]

should have stated...

Auto RX maint Dose and 1qt of MMO...both were in at all times.

 

[c3po]

I know about auto-rx since I am running a Maintenance Dose, what are your thoughts on running 1 quart of MMO.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: casper
should have stated...

Auto RX maint Dose and 1qt of MMO...both were in at all times.



Nice, they seem to work well together for you. How long have you used MMO in this engine? Have you always used the A-Rx and MMO together? MMO's been around forever that's why I'm asking.

 

[casper]

Ive only used the MMO and Auto RX together for this oil change and the one prior.

The engine went through a full Auto RX cycle (about a year ago) and then I started the Maint. doses.

MMO has been used in the vehicle off and on since purchase. I have only recently begun using it consistently in the sump and in the recommended amount.

Engine has seen the following oils

M1 5w30, PP, RP, GC, Rotella T and now the SynPower...

 

[FZ1]

No need to put foreign objects in your oil. Just run a 5k oci with a synthetic oil and nuthin' else.

 

[c3po]

Originally Posted By: casper
should have stated...

Auto RX maint Dose and 1qt of MMO...both were in at all times.



casper, did you do any UOA's before you put in MMO.

Does the car run differently with the MMO in your oil as opposed to when you did not have it in the oil.

Let's not bash him for using MMO in his oil, its his car and he should be able to use whatever he wants.

Remember I was the one that went after SaturnFan for using Berryman's B12, I appologized and realized that he can use whatever he wants in his car, we are on friendly terms.

Hopefully we can learn from casper about what MMO in the oil does or does not do. I am not advocating that people should put MMO in there oil, but we all should be game too obtaining some knowledge on this subject.

 

[casper]

I have had 2 other UOA's done (both without MMO or Auto RX)

One was done with GC...the other was RP 5w30


I wish I could just post up the other UOAs..but I will probably just type them in over the next day or so.

All the wear metals went down on a longer run than the other UOA's with the Syn+MMO+AutoRX...

 

[demarpaint]

It's worth repeating. It seems that package Syn+MMO+A-Rx is working well. I think you have a winning combo! The viscosity was good too so the MMO didn't mess with the viscosity either.

Frank D

 

[INDYMAC]

This is a very interesting UOA not only for your choice of additives, but also the relatively high level of fuel dilution.

What type/brand of fuel are you using? Any fuel additives? It doesn't appear to have affected Fe, Cu and Pb wear as we normally see.

MMO has been reported on BITOG to contain considerable amounts of P, yet your UOA shows a somewhat low level of P.

I have seen where Frank Miller has recommended against using MMO and ARX together in the past since MMO is a solvent. Did he change his mind on this, or did you just decide to experiment on your own?

What fuel and oil filters did you use?

This could possibly be the best 5K UOA that I've seen on a 2UZ-FE engine. Congratulations!

 

[Al]

Nice..but honestly I wouldn't use the MMO. It might have been fine 20 years ago and I have used it. But putting it in there is really (IMHO) just a "feel good thing." Put it in the gas if you want. It does improve mileage.

I would guess with summer coming on..next change make sure you run the thing at least 1/2 hour before changing to see if the flash point goes up.

 

[INDYMAC]

I don't know why people suggest driving the vehicle for a longer period of time than they usually do before taking a sample for UOA. I thought the whole idea of a UOA was to take a snap shot of the oil's condition after it's been normally driven. That procedure would help to determine what is causing higher than normal wear. Eliminating a suspect would hinder the correct interpretation IMO.

I can see recommending longer drives peiodically for evaporating the fuel that normally accumulates under severe driving conditions though.

 

[casper]

The truck sees Chevron or Shell Gasolines, with zero fuel additives other than what is included in the fuel.

Filter was a ST, currently using a Purolator Pure One.

I elected to use the Auto RX and MMO since no one had posted up a UOA of it combined before and considering how easy the 2uz is on oil, felt that a 5000 mile test would be okay.

Im currently running another run of the MMO and AutoRX to see if the fuel dilution problem is still there. I will remove the MMO on the next oil change and see what that shows.

I had a 1000mile trip on this oil which included multiple 3 hour drives at a time. So its interesting to see just how much fuel there was even given that.

What bothers me is just how weak the SynPower seems to be. A 2.6TBN with only 4900miles seems relatively weak especially given that my run on RP 5w30 of 4,600miles (only 300 less than the SynPower) had a TBN of 4.8 and that sample was taken when I was driving even shorter trips.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: INDYMAC
I don't know why people suggest driving the vehicle for a longer period of time than they usually do before taking a sample for UOA.

Take any vehicle out and run it 10 minutes in cold weather and you will get well over 1% dilution. You do raise a good point though. I have always done it the way I described. Could be an issue for discussion.

 

[INDYMAC]

I'm starting to wonder if it was the quart of MMO that lowered the flash point, thus giving a false indication of fuel.

It's hard to tell if the TBN is weak for the Synpower until you find out where it actually drops to 1.0. It's not advertised to be an extended drain oil to my knowledge, but should easily get you 5-7.5K all day long in your engine.

 

[addyguy]

Low TBN might be because of the MMO - if MMO is a solvent that has no additives in it, then it lowers the overall amount of adds in the oil (dilutes them), hence the TBN wouldn't last as long. However, didn't seem to do any harm!

 

[demarpaint]

The only way to tell, would be to do a UOA under the same conditions (almost impossible). Then use the Synpower alone, the Synpower with the MMO, and the Synpower with the A-Rx main't dose. One of many of the problems that could Skew the results would be we are now going into the spring time with warmer temps. Then there is the cost factor and the time element.

 

[casper]

Well im re running the same setup to remove any real variables with the last UOA. Im going to ensure that things are tidy on my side with the truck.

Then on the next change im going to do the SynPower with just the AutoRX.

The removal of the MMO should shed light on the topic

 

[demarpaint]

Sounds to me like you've got a good mix right now, although a little testing never hurt. I for one am very interested in your results. The only downside is it might take two consecutive runs w/o the MMO to get more accurate results.