2017 Ford Expy 3.5L EB 5480mi Edge 0w40 - LOTS of Fuel

Messages
49
Location
MA
Finally sent my UOA sample in and it came back a lot worse than I thought it would. I am attributing it to my wife's use of the remote starter in the winter months as she sometimes leaves it idling for quite a while as we get the kids ready for school then again at the bus stop. She has promised not to use it this winter to see if it changes the outcome.

I had major difficulties inputting the data as BITOG changed the site a bit and the code feature is no longer working for me. I will do some research on how I can fix it but after messing with it for over an hour I am fed up :) so please check my old post for historical UOA's if you desire.

Previous UOA can be found HERE


Blackstone Comment: The flashpoint was very low this time, showing 5.3% fuel dilution. That's quite an excessive amount of fuel. It caused the viscosity to thin and it very well may indicate a fuel system problem at that level. Keep an eye out for a rising oil level on the dipstick. The fuel contamination didn't seem to have a significant impact on wear levels during this run, but it's best to keep oil changes short for now. The 2.6 TBN shows active additive left, but we don't recommend running longer until we can say fuel is no longer a threat. Check back on fuel in 3,500 miles or so.

Code:
MAKE/MODEL:    2017 Expedition    3.5L EcoBoost
      
OIL            Edge 0w-40
MILES IN USE        5480
MILES            26500
SAMPLE TAKEN        3/1/2020
      
ALUMINUM            6
CHROMIUM            1
IRON                23
COPPER                12
LEAD                0
TIN                0
MOLYBDENUM            3
NICKEL                0
MANGANESE            8
SILVER                0
TITANIUM            41
POTASSIUM            3
BORON                31
SILICON                12
SODIUM                6
CALCIUM                2175
MAGNESIUM            80
PHOSPHORUS            768
ZINC                905
BARIUM                0
      
SUS VIS 210?F            56.8
cSt @ 212?F            9.3
FLASHPOINT F            280
Fuel%                5.3
Antifreeze%            0
WATER%                0
INSOLUBLES            0.3
TBN                2.6
 
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Messages
1,269
Location
Brittany / Canada
5% fuel :oops: The viscosity dropped to 9,3 cSt, but in the end it doesn't look TOO bad (I don't know why but I would have expected much worse with that amount of fuel). Still, 5% fuel...could that be just the idling and the cold?
I use and abuse of the distance starter here in Canada, sometimes for like 15min+ (time it takes me to "dig" the car from snow).

I see you have used Edge 0W40 for several UOA, for the sake of science I'd try M1 0W40 next winter and see how it does.
 

89Rustang

Thread starter
Messages
49
Location
MA
Could that be just the idling and the cold?
I use and abuse of the distance starter here in Canada, sometimes for like 15min+ (time it takes me to "dig" the car from snow).

I am hoping that's all it is...keeping in mind it would also be a daily ritual when the kids are in school.

I see you have used Edge 0W40 for several UOA, for the sake of science I'd try M1 0W40 next winter and see how it does.

I have tossed that idea around, especially since I used to use it exclusively in my BMW until they dropped the LL-01 cert. I just use Castrol in all my cars now so I don't need a bunch of different oils. M1 0w-40 also shears down to a "light" 40w I believe (at least is used to) so that may be beneficial in the winter.

I am going to take a sample prior to changing the oil and make a decision in the fall/winter.
 
Messages
141
Location
SK, Canada
Do you do a "hot oil change"? How long do you run your engine before draining, & taking a sample.

I sent in a sample one time, & had a very high fuel dilution.

I think I am blaming it in a short run time to get the oil up to temp, & then immediately shutting it off.

Every other sample I have sent since has been much better.

I always take the sample after running at least 30 minutes of continuous highway driving.
 
Messages
1,347
Location
FL
I echo cdlamb's comments

I have the same engine. Personally I would not worry about the fuel at this point, especially a fuel calculation blackstone makes.

If you get bad fuel 2 or 3 in a row it might be an issue. I have about 25 UOA on that engine now with 2 different trucks. Fuel dilution goes up and down, one time close to 5% another 3% it never seems to mess with the other numbers so really it is just an item to keep your eye on.

I would switch to a lab that does proper fuel calculations if you want to track it for real as blackstone's is just a guess.

EB are weird engines when it comes to dilution, sometimes high, sometimes low. They don't really seem to care however, in my experience it has been a non issue.
 

89Rustang

Thread starter
Messages
49
Location
MA
I echo cdlamb's comments

I have the same engine. Personally I would not worry about the fuel at this point, especially a fuel calculation blackstone makes.

If you get bad fuel 2 or 3 in a row it might be an issue. I have about 25 UOA on that engine now with 2 different trucks. Fuel dilution goes up and down, one time close to 5% another 3% it never seems to mess with the other numbers so really it is just an item to keep your eye on.

I would switch to a lab that does proper fuel calculations if you want to track it for real as blackstone's is just a guess.

EB are weird engines when it comes to dilution, sometimes high, sometimes low. They don't really seem to care however, in my experience it has been a non issue.

I have read about Blackstone Fuel dilution and how it can be inaccurate. My wife uses regular gas in the winter but usually premium in the summer due to the towing and heat etc. I might have her use premium year-round to see if it helps since it supposedly has more complete burn.
 

89Rustang

Thread starter
Messages
49
Location
MA
Did your Expedition see a lot of short trips?

My sister has a 2018, so, I’m interested.
Yes, mostly short trips. My wife uses the remote start, then to the bus stop, then home for bit. She then goes to the gym up the street, then to work about about 5 miles away.

Definitely a rough life for this truck.
 
Messages
12,208
Location
North Carolina
I always take the sample after running at least 30 minutes of continuous highway driving.

If a 30 minute continuous drive is typical for how you drive, then yes that's what you should do before taking a sample.

But it you are doing short trips as the norm. You should take the sample after your typical short trip, not with an out of the ordinary 30 minute drive.
The goal is to test the oil to see how it's holding up under YOUR driving conditions.

That way you know if fuel is building up, or tbn is dropping.
That would give you the data to adjust your oci interval, or even work in a longer drive once a week to burn off fuel. Or even change viscosity.
 
Messages
1,067
Location
Northern, NY
Change the oil more often if the fuel dilution bothers you, but it does not seem to bother the engine. You bought an Expedition to be comfortable, so use it as intended. Both of ours see plenty of idle time with school and hockey.
 
Messages
1,347
Location
FL
I have read about Blackstone Fuel dilution and how it can be inaccurate. My wife uses regular gas in the winter but usually premium in the summer due to the towing and heat etc. I might have her use premium year-round to see if it helps since it supposedly has more complete burn.
I don't think premium is necessary, the EB is tuned for 87. I do use premium when I tow heavy, close to GVWR, my area is hot and the engine works hard but otherwise mine gets a steady diet of 87.

With my original EB I did a small test 2 uoa on 93 and 2 on 87 and noticed no discernible difference in dilution. Of course this was not a controlled scientific test so take it with a grain of salt.
 
Messages
1,347
Location
FL
Here is a sample of my old EB I no longer have. It was a major diluter but as you see it did not really affect the wear metals. The one outlier with the aluminum was when I was towing in plus 100 degree temps and the truck was well above the GVWR, plus I was travelling at high rates of speed for the entire UOA. I was using Kendall 5w30, after I switched to edge 0w40 and I felt it was better solution YMMV
 

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Messages
624
Location
MO
I’d have her keep using the remote start if it makes her comfortable. It’s an appliance and you are using great oil in it and changing early and the numbers look good.
 
Messages
4,560
Location
Decatur AL USA
The study I looked at (Using an ACEA A3 Synthetic 5W30 - Maybe 12.0 cSt and 3.5 HTHS) resulted in a 36F drop in flashpoint for 3% gasoline and 54F for 5%.

The only flashpoint I have is 408F (which I think might be minimum instead of actual). With a minimum 128F drop I'm willing to bet it's more than 5.3% Fuel.
 
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Messages
150
Location
DFW, TX
Late response, but 89R, I feel your pain. I have 3.5EB too, with high fuel dil. Very little idling, mostly low rpm Hwy miles (2.22k rpm or less). My first UOA was at 35k, and the problem has been there since then (at least). I think it is an engine problem (or flaw). I haven’t found my cause, and Ford has not been helpful, denies ANY problem, even though I am still in warranty. With 4000 miles of warranty left, I assume I will get no consideration, unless it explodes or locks up soon. But maybe you’ve got a better dealer than I do.The “experiments” to fix aren’t cheap: replace HP fuel pump, replace all coils-on-plugs, and/or injectors. Independent shop told me the cylinder bank with the fuel pump was running rich, but could not tell me why, referred me to Ford (see above ). John Pifer, if I am not mistaken, the 2018 Expdn will have the “gen 2” version...which may well have addressed the problems (fuel, timing chain, intake valve deposits).

And thanks for providing results for an oil I was considering (0w40 Castrol; at least UOA viscosity isn’t as bad as PP 5w30...and probably sufficient).
 
Messages
43,746
Location
Ontario, Canada
Blackstone's fuel figure is always way off, so if they are saying it's around 5%, you can rest assured that it is significantly more than that. I'd suggest using another lab that uses GC to measure fuel to determine just how bad it is.
 
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