DI engines high SAPS/low SAPS

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Originally Posted By: irv
PimTac said:
If that has been proven to be true, that good/high detergent fuels be used and it helps, then Seafoam in one's gas, imo, will also certainly help.
It seems ironic, the talk of good oils, or oils recommended for DI engines, that since the oil also doesn't touch the valves, or shouldn't, why are those recommended to be used?
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If oil is getting past the rings and burning in the cylinders it is hitting the valves. Better oils might leave less [censored] behind when consumed, or be consumed less. This could be a good case for looking into the Noack ratings.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: irv
PimTac said:
If that has been proven to be true, that good/high detergent fuels be used and it helps, then Seafoam in one's gas, imo, will also certainly help.
It seems ironic, the talk of good oils, or oils recommended for DI engines, that since the oil also doesn't touch the valves, or shouldn't, why are those recommended to be used?
21.gif



If oil is getting past the rings and burning in the cylinders it is hitting the valves. Better oils might leave less [censored] behind when consumed, or be consumed less. This could be a good case for looking into the Noack ratings.


I agree, but if oil is making some contact with the valves, then unburnt fuel must also be as well? Despite the thoughts on Seafoam from some others, I know I will continue to use it even it if it doesn't do a thing with the valves. I also use it help keep the gas a bit fresher, use it as a deicer/dewaterer plus everything else it does. https://seafoamsales.com/how-to-add-sea-foam-motor-treatment-to-gasoline-ethanol-and-diesel-fuels/
 
Originally Posted By: StevieC
You could suck up the seafoam through a vacuum line and get it over the valves that way but I'm not sure Seafoam is the best product for it. I would use something far stronger and meant for the valves like CRC's cleaner that works for Direct Injection Engines and is sprayed through the throttle body.

http://www.crcindustries.com/how-to-use-crc-gdi-ivd-intake-valve-turbo-cleaner/


Or a cleaner with a high amount of PEA. That's what I used in the past with my VAG car. (injected directly into the intake)
 
I personally use Amsoil P.I. or VP Racing Fuels Fuel System cleaner if I have stock from the states. It's the best I have seen so far.
For the D.I. engines in the family we will use Amsoil Power Foam but I would use CRC no problem.
 
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Valve deposits on DI engines are often do to poor
design and/or PCV problems.
Better 'aiming' of the injectors, better timing of the
'injection' helps. Crud from the PCV is the other
source of valve build up.
Seafoam, or other strong injector cleaner does help
according to my experience.
Catch cans help with oil fumes if the owner wants to bother
with installing them.
There are products made to help with cleaning the intake valves
but it's hard to judge how effective they actually are.

My 2¢
 
Originally Posted By: dwendt44
Valve deposits on DI engines are often do to poor
design and/or PCV problems.
Better 'aiming' of the injectors, better timing of the
'injection' helps. Crud from the PCV is the other
source of valve build up.
Seafoam, or other strong injector cleaner does help
according to my experience.

Catch cans help with oil fumes if the owner wants to bother
with installing them.
There are products made to help with cleaning the intake valves
but it's hard to judge how effective they actually are.

My 2¢


My experiences with it are also positive too. I swear by the stuff and I know it's saved me a lot of time and unnecessary work with some of my toys and equipment.
cheers3.gif
 
Originally Posted By: irv
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: irv
PimTac said:
If that has been proven to be true, that good/high detergent fuels be used and it helps, then Seafoam in one's gas, imo, will also certainly help.
It seems ironic, the talk of good oils, or oils recommended for DI engines, that since the oil also doesn't touch the valves, or shouldn't, why are those recommended to be used?
21.gif



If oil is getting past the rings and burning in the cylinders it is hitting the valves. Better oils might leave less [censored] behind when consumed, or be consumed less. This could be a good case for looking into the Noack ratings.


I agree, but if oil is making some contact with the valves, then unburnt fuel must also be as well? Despite the thoughts on Seafoam from some others, I know I will continue to use it even it if it doesn't do a thing with the valves. I also use it help keep the gas a bit fresher, use it as a deicer/dewaterer plus everything else it does. https://seafoamsales.com/how-to-add-sea-foam-motor-treatment-to-gasoline-ethanol-and-diesel-fuels/


The only difference the way I see it is the oil getting into the combustion chamber is going to leave a lot more junk behind than the fuel that didn't burn. That junk will eventually turn into carbon. The problem with the unburnt fuel is it will find its way into the crankcase, which is one of the reasons I'd want to use a good synthetic oil and not push the OCI in a DI engine. There's value to extending an OCI in certain applications, DI IMO is not one of them. Especially some of the more problematic DI engines.
 
Originally Posted By: superangrypenguin
Originally Posted By: StevieC
You could suck up the seafoam through a vacuum line and get it over the valves that way but I'm not sure Seafoam is the best product for it. I would use something far stronger and meant for the valves like CRC's cleaner that works for Direct Injection Engines and is sprayed through the throttle body.

http://www.crcindustries.com/how-to-use-crc-gdi-ivd-intake-valve-turbo-cleaner/


Or a cleaner with a high amount of PEA. That's what I used in the past with my VAG car. (injected directly into the intake)

Redline to keep your fuel lines has high PEA.
 
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These cleaners have almost no effect except as placebo. If you actually have taken off an intake manifold and cleaned the deposits, it’s obvious that a cleaner staying on there for a few seconds is like trying to dig a grave with a spork.

Hardcore carbon cleaners left to soak overnight and vigorous manual brushing with a brass barrel brush are the only options.

For most DI engines, the oil catch cans also have no noticeable effects. They do catch oil vapor and need to be emptied but the deposits are still there. This is for Audi and BMW. The only design change that really makes a difference is using a hybrid injection system that has partial port injection.
 
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Originally Posted By: irv
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
Originally Posted By: irv
Just curious, and I am not 100% sure if I understand all this or not, but would running Seafoam in your gas, or other applications of it, occasionally, not help with some of these issues?
I have been using it for quite a few years in everything I own. Snowmobiles, snow blower, boat, lawnmower and my vehicles and I personally swear by the stuff.

Almost annually, with my 2 stroke Indy XLT SP, I had to tear the carbs apart to clean them. Since I have been using Sea Foam, I haven't tore them down in at least 4-5 years. I did after the first I started using it, and all 3 carbs (it's a triple) were as clean as a whistle. Lots of vids/info on it.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=does+seaf...me&ie=UTF-8


It would probably help if someone used it regularly, the problem is, once you start putting seafoam in the intake, it can potentially mess up the Oxygen Sensors and or the Cat converter. Maybe it will, maybe it wont, but cleaning the valves professionally every now and then would be cheaper than replacing a cat converter.

Use good gas, Use good Oil, Dont let it idle for hours at a time, open it up on the freeway whenever you can, should all help.


Jeff


I don't run it all the time, in every tank of gas, but going by your response, are you suggesting it would need to be with these issue that are being talked about?

In my boat, I'll add a splash every 5 gallons I dump in it but there are times, most times, where the boat/engine doesn't run for a week or sometimes 2-3.
About twice, maybe 3 times a year, I'll add a full can to about a half tank of fuel, 30-50 ltr's, in my wife's car and my truck. My snowmobiles, I usually add a splash to my 5 gallon jerry cans and the same cans are used for my snowblower and lawnmowers.

My old as the hills lawnmower at our trailer was running pretty rough about 10 yrs ago. I added a fair amount for that small tank and it sputtered, spit, etc, but it cleaned it right up and it ran great from there on in. I wouldn't have believed it if I didn't see it myself. That is now why I add a splash here or there to my Jerry can. It helps keep the gas in there fresh plus I know it's going directly into my tanks on my toys/equipment.
It is also a stabilizer, deicer/waterer and a host of other things. I personally swear by it and will continue to use as long as it remains available.
11.gif



using that product in your Mower, snowmobile and such vs a car are totally different. Your looking at "Emission Equipped" the car, to "no Emission Equip" the other stuff.

What I am saying, people that I know that have used this product by spraying it into the intake to burn off deposits off of intake valves have done more harm than good. They damage O2 sensors, and or the Cat Converter. Doing that you auto fail your emissions test.

So its not that it may or may not work, but if you have a car that has smog equip on it I would not use it. Especially if your in a very picky emission state like California.

Thats all I am saying.


Jeff
 
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
Originally Posted By: irv
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
Originally Posted By: irv
Just curious, and I am not 100% sure if I understand all this or not, but would running Seafoam in your gas, or other applications of it, occasionally, not help with some of these issues?
I have been using it for quite a few years in everything I own. Snowmobiles, snow blower, boat, lawnmower and my vehicles and I personally swear by the stuff.

Almost annually, with my 2 stroke Indy XLT SP, I had to tear the carbs apart to clean them. Since I have been using Sea Foam, I haven't tore them down in at least 4-5 years. I did after the first I started using it, and all 3 carbs (it's a triple) were as clean as a whistle. Lots of vids/info on it.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=does+seaf...me&ie=UTF-8


It would probably help if someone used it regularly, the problem is, once you start putting seafoam in the intake, it can potentially mess up the Oxygen Sensors and or the Cat converter. Maybe it will, maybe it wont, but cleaning the valves professionally every now and then would be cheaper than replacing a cat converter.

Use good gas, Use good Oil, Dont let it idle for hours at a time, open it up on the freeway whenever you can, should all help.


Jeff


I don't run it all the time, in every tank of gas, but going by your response, are you suggesting it would need to be with these issue that are being talked about?

In my boat, I'll add a splash every 5 gallons I dump in it but there are times, most times, where the boat/engine doesn't run for a week or sometimes 2-3.
About twice, maybe 3 times a year, I'll add a full can to about a half tank of fuel, 30-50 ltr's, in my wife's car and my truck. My snowmobiles, I usually add a splash to my 5 gallon jerry cans and the same cans are used for my snowblower and lawnmowers.

My old as the hills lawnmower at our trailer was running pretty rough about 10 yrs ago. I added a fair amount for that small tank and it sputtered, spit, etc, but it cleaned it right up and it ran great from there on in. I wouldn't have believed it if I didn't see it myself. That is now why I add a splash here or there to my Jerry can. It helps keep the gas in there fresh plus I know it's going directly into my tanks on my toys/equipment.
It is also a stabilizer, deicer/waterer and a host of other things. I personally swear by it and will continue to use as long as it remains available.
11.gif



using that product in your Mower, snowmobile and such vs a car are totally different. Your looking at "Emission Equipped" the car, to "no Emission Equip" the other stuff.

What I am saying, people that I know that have used this product by spraying it into the intake to burn off deposits off of intake valves have done more harm than good. They damage O2 sensors, and or the Cat Converter. Doing that you auto fail your emissions test.

So its not that it may or may not work, but if you have a car that has smog equip on it I would not use it. Especially if your in a very picky emission state like California.

Thats all I am saying.


Jeff


Thanks for the info. I have never used it directly into my intake, only in my gas tank, but I can understand what you are saying, especially if one was to do it quite often.
For me, and seeing the results in my snow machines and lawnmowers, I see no harm, and likely reap some benefit by adding it to my to vehicle's gas tank. It certainly can't hurt anyways, imo, and even if it is doing nothing internally, ie, the valves, I know it is helping to remove water, helping to keep other things clean and helping to preserve my fuel somewhat.

I have heard about others using injector cleaners too often and the damage they can cause to CAT converters and other parts, and that is an expensive lesson, but, imo, if one feels the need to use something like that as often as they do, then they have more serious problems going on within their vehicles and/or the fuel they use.
 
All I know is I want to take your Snowmobile for a drive
banana2.gif


I have never taken a ride in one of those, how cool would that be
smile.gif



Jeff
 
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX


All I know is I want to take your Snowmobile for a drive
banana2.gif


I have never taken a ride in one of those, how cool would that be
smile.gif



Jeff


Google snowmobile rental or snowmobile trips and see what comes up? I know many, especially for backcountry riding exist and I am guessing likely not to far from your area?

I have sledded (snowmobile slang) since I was 8, I am now 53 and still love it. The freedom, fresh air and how it distresses me can't be beaten!
It isn't a cheap sport however, and it seems to be getting more expensive every year, but with that being said, it also depends on far in you want to go. Many good used sleds exist every year. Both of mine are used and I saved thousands. My son, who has sledded since he was 3, enjoys it as much as I do. I gave him my old XLT SP, and he loves it. My Father got me started and I took him out about 5 yrs ago when he was 72. The sport is for all ages, especially trail riding, which is what I enjoy the most.

Good luck with your quest to one day riding one, it is an experience you won't soon forget.
cheers3.gif








 
Thank You for sharing those wonderful photos. How "Cool" (no pun intended) is that?? Love it.

I was born and raised in Southern California. Never have even seen snow like that. Honestly, I see the sun and warm weather daily and have never experienced the Snow of a winter. Definitely something I would love to experience.

Again, Thanks so much for sharing...


Jeff
 
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
Thank You for sharing those wonderful photos. How "Cool" (no pun intended) is that?? Love it.

I was born and raised in Southern California. Never have even seen snow like that. Honestly, I see the sun and warm weather daily and have never experienced the Snow of a winter. Definitely something I would love to experience.

Again, Thanks so much for sharing...


Jeff


You're welcome, Jeff, and thanks, wemay.
cheers3.gif


It is a lot of fun but like anything, there is risk/danger involved if one isn't careful. A couple vids here of mostly trail riding Lots of different sleds out there that fit one's riding style, you just have to choose what you would enjoy the most. Enjoy the vids. I am anticipating a great winter this year as the last couple have been pretty bad for us snow wise here in Southern Ontario
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMYLiM36MUQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-Pubz9GXr8
Always loved this vid. Great song and scenery. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QGiMOlqfIM
 
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Originally Posted By: irv
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
Thank You for sharing those wonderful photos. How "Cool" (no pun intended) is that?? Love it.

I was born and raised in Southern California. Never have even seen snow like that. Honestly, I see the sun and warm weather daily and have never experienced the Snow of a winter. Definitely something I would love to experience.

Again, Thanks so much for sharing...


Jeff


You're welcome, Jeff, and thanks, wemay.
cheers3.gif


It is a lot of fun but like anything, there is risk/danger involved if one isn't careful. A couple vids here of mostly trail riding Lots of different sleds out there that fit one's riding style, you just have to choose what you would enjoy the most. Enjoy the vids. I am anticipating a great winter this year as the last couple have been pretty bad for us snow wise here in Southern Ontario
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMYLiM36MUQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-Pubz9GXr8
Always loved this vid. Great song and scenery. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QGiMOlqfIM


Not sure if Winter will come to my area, Today the day before Thanksgiving its 90F out. Was debating on turning on the House A/C or not. IN NOVEMBER.


Jeff
 
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