ATF change 2012 BMW 335is; dealers say never do

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: mightymousetech

Manufacturers consider the "lifetime" of the vehicle to be between 160k km (100k miles) to 240k km (150k miles), depending on the manufacturer. That's it. That is why if the fluid can make it that far, and the car dies at that point, they have done their job.


I agree- although I've got an E36/5 with 144k miles on it that looks and drives like new(aside from the headliner).

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted By: philipp10


"manufacturer could care less what happens after they're no longer liable for the fix"

So you think BMW or Toyota don't care what happens after the warranty period? That was how the business was run in the 1960's when the big 3 ruled. Just not true today. Do you honestly think that if your tranny went right after the warranty, you would would buy another of the same make? I know I wouldn't, and the executives know that too. Trust me, the manufacturers care ALOT if they want to be in business in the long run.


The sad truth is not many people buy a car and keep it until 150k, especially a luxury car. The manufacturers are more concerned with marketing "less maintenance" than cars that last a long time. After all, they are in the business of selling cars, not keeping old ones on the road for 200k. Their goal is a balance, a car that lasts just long enough.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: Or
Quote:
So, the question I have; does anyone have a good reason to never change the ATF?


No, no one can give you a good reason not to do it.

Manufacturers feel it will get them through the life of the warranty period. That's the "lifetime." 50 to 60k is a good time to get the factory fill out for maximum protection and performance. It can provide service longer if those are not priorities. That's the only reason, and it's not a "good" one.


Recommendation: If you want to keep the car past 75k, find a good local ASE certified mechanic and have him change it.

I disagree with this lifetime "sealed" fluid [censored].

We haven't yet been able to formulate a sellable fluid that will go past ~ 40k without degradation, and it is not about the chemistry, it's about the price.

Suggestion to car makers: Install a transmission fluid filter in a location easily accessible and recommend changing it every 20k miles with a topoff. Catching particulates and replenishing the additive package can go a long way toward fluid longevity.

 

[zeng]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Suggestion to car makers: Install a transmission fluid filter in a location easily accessible and recommend changing it every 20k miles with a topoff. Catching particulates and replenishing the additive package can go a long way toward fluid longevity.

+1
The car makers knew about this decades ago.
They do not do it, for 'cynical' reasons to the detriments of components longevity.
I generally don't trust (modern day) OEM's on their oil recommendations, after having made sure I understand their underlining basis.
But Owner manual Monster is powerful in Bitog.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted By: DSteven
I am asking for any experience regarding the transmission fluid for this vehicle, 2012 BMW 335is automatic trans. It is at 50,000 miles and 5 years old, and I wish to change the ATF, but the dealer nearly refused to do it, fine. I called two other dealers and the service mgrs were in agreement that it is a lifetime fluid, leave it alone or trouble will occur. The items they have recommended and I have performed are flush coolant, differential fluid, and follow the oil change meter. Of course I do not and change every 5000-7000. So, the question I have; does anyone have a good reason for never changing BMW ATF? I have modified this vehicle and feel it is important to change the ATF. In the other vehicles, I change the ATF every 25000-35000 miles, and have not had a failure for several cars with even 250,000-350,000 miles (maybe LubeGard Red helps a little). I would like to use MaxLife ATF on the BMW, as it meets the spec and add LubeGard Red. But the overpriced OEM Pentosin can be used if it must. Thank you for any experience you can share. BTW, I have been using Euro Castrol 0w-30, but it is becoming difficult to find. Do you think Mobil-1 0w-30 Advanced Fuel Economy is alright in this slightly modded N55 3.0L turbo engine?


ZF has a "severe service" change interval of 45k-60k miles. Use ZF Lifeguard 8 or equivalent (if there is one).

http://www.thectsc.com/products/oil-change-kit-for-bmw-8hp45/70-ga8hp45z-ga8hp70z--227-109.html

 

[Hall]

That is impressive that they use this common part across that many applications.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted By: DSteven
I am asking for any experience regarding the transmission fluid for this vehicle, 2012 BMW 335is automatic trans. It is at 50,000 miles and 5 years old, and I wish to change the ATF, but the dealer nearly refused to do it, fine. I called two other dealers and the service mgrs were in agreement that it is a lifetime fluid, leave it alone or trouble will occur. The items they have recommended and I have performed are flush coolant, differential fluid, and follow the oil change meter. Of course I do not and change every 5000-7000. So, the question I have; does anyone have a good reason for never changing BMW ATF? I have modified this vehicle and feel it is important to change the ATF. In the other vehicles, I change the ATF every 25000-35000 miles, and have not had a failure for several cars with even 250,000-350,000 miles (maybe LubeGard Red helps a little). I would like to use MaxLife ATF on the BMW, as it meets the spec and add LubeGard Red. But the overpriced OEM Pentosin can be used if it must. Thank you for any experience you can share. BTW, I have been using Euro Castrol 0w-30, but it is becoming difficult to find. Do you think Mobil-1 0w-30 Advanced Fuel Economy is alright in this slightly modded N55 3.0L turbo engine?


ZF has a "severe service" change interval of 45k-60k miles. Use ZF Lifeguard 8 or equivalent (if there is one).

http://www.thectsc.com/products/oil-change-kit-for-bmw-8hp45/70-ga8hp45z-ga8hp70z--227-109.html


UPDATE: For some reason I thought u had the ZF8HP. The site has the kits for the ZF6HP.

 

[philipp10]

Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Originally Posted By: philipp10


"manufacturer could care less what happens after they're no longer liable for the fix"

So you think BMW or Toyota don't care what happens after the warranty period? That was how the business was run in the 1960's when the big 3 ruled. Just not true today. Do you honestly think that if your tranny went right after the warranty, you would would buy another of the same make? I know I wouldn't, and the executives know that too. Trust me, the manufacturers care ALOT if they want to be in business in the long run.


The sad truth is not many people buy a car and keep it until 150k, especially a luxury car. The manufacturers are more concerned with marketing "less maintenance" than cars that last a long time. After all, they are in the business of selling cars, not keeping old ones on the road for 200k. Their goal is a balance, a car that lasts just long enough.


Well I personally have never heard someone buy a vehicle based upon longer maintenance intervals. Sure maybe recommending oil changes at 7500 rather than 3000, but I have never seen a person say, "and I don't ever have to change the tranny fluids". To think BMW or Toyota does not care about tranny longevity is to say they don't mind if the company takes a hit to their reputation long term. Sorry I just don't buy it.

Go ahead keep pulling out old but perfectly looking fluid if it makes you feel better.

 

[Hall]

Originally Posted By: philipp10
To think BMW or Toyota does not care about tranny longevity is to say they don't mind if the company takes a hit to their reputation long term. Sorry I just don't buy it.

At some point (years, mileage, etc), the manufacturers have to cut their "responsibility". If a car is on it's 3rd owner, 190,000 miles and then the transmission goes out, no sane person will immediately blame the manufacturer. There are way too many variables in play.

 

[philipp10]

Originally Posted By: hallstevenson
Originally Posted By: philipp10
To think BMW or Toyota does not care about tranny longevity is to say they don't mind if the company takes a hit to their reputation long term. Sorry I just don't buy it.

At some point (years, mileage, etc), the manufacturers have to cut their "responsibility". If a car is on it's 3rd owner, 190,000 miles and then the transmission goes out, no sane person will immediately blame the manufacturer. There are way too many variables in play.


I didn't say they would blame the manufacturer. But if one company could claim basically no tranny failures under 300k miles ever, wouldn't that trump low maintenance claims? Wouldn't that be such a huge marketing advantage?

 

[Hall]

In my opinion, many people (car buyers) don't look at details related to high mileage, above 150k miles, for instance. Yes, some do, but I think that most do not. Also, car makers marketing is generally only looked at by new car buyers, not everyday folks buying a used car that has 150k+ miles.

 

[MarcS]

"Lifetime" fluid meand beyond the lifetime of your warranty, not beyond the lifetime of ykur car. Just did the fluid on my "sealed" infiniti transmission. Built a fluid pump out of a $10 garden sprayer and filled it with maxlife. Whole job took an hour. Worked fine. Car drives like new. Don't listen to your dealer.

 

[MarcS]

Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer
If it doesn't have a dipstick, then the official procedure to fully remove and replace the fluid and filter and ensure the level is correct can be quite involved.


Involved? Like what? Measuring the amount of fluid that came out and putting the same amount back in?

This isn't rocket science.

 

[philipp10]

Originally Posted By: MarcS
"Lifetime" fluid meand beyond the lifetime of your warranty, not beyond the lifetime of ykur car. Just did the fluid on my "sealed" infiniti transmission. Built a fluid pump out of a $10 garden sprayer and filled it with maxlife. Whole job took an hour. Worked fine. Car drives like new. Don't listen to your dealer.


Did you look closely at what came out? How did it look?

 

[MarcS]

Originally Posted By: philipp10
Originally Posted By: MarcS
"Lifetime" fluid meand beyond the lifetime of your warranty, not beyond the lifetime of ykur car. Just did the fluid on my "sealed" infiniti transmission. Built a fluid pump out of a $10 garden sprayer and filled it with maxlife. Whole job took an hour. Worked fine. Car drives like new. Don't listen to your dealer.


Did you look closely at what came out? How did it look?





Looked like that

 

[SilverFusion2010]

Originally Posted By: MarcS
Originally Posted By: philipp10
Originally Posted By: MarcS
"Lifetime" fluid meand beyond the lifetime of your warranty, not beyond the lifetime of ykur car. Just did the fluid on my "sealed" infiniti transmission. Built a fluid pump out of a $10 garden sprayer and filled it with maxlife. Whole job took an hour. Worked fine. Car drives like new. Don't listen to your dealer.


Did you look closely at what came out? How did it look?





Looked like that



Yum!

Does it have a burnt smell at all?

 

[Coprolite]

Marc, the ZF fill port is below the full fluid mark when the car isn't running. The FSM also states to keep the atf temp in the right range.

I will see if I can track down the steps and post them.

Originally Posted By: MarcS
Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer
If it doesn't have a dipstick, then the official procedure to fully remove and replace the fluid and filter and ensure the level is correct can be quite involved.


Involved? Like what? Measuring the amount of fluid that came out and putting the same amount back in?

This isn't rocket science.

 

[Coprolite]

While not highly involved, having the right scan tool ensures success. I think I will buy the parts and pay $70 for labor and lift, not to mention experience. If I mess up the Civic transmission, NBD. The ZF is $$$ and this issupposed to be preventive maintenance.

http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1016592

 

[MarcS]

Originally Posted By: Coprolite
Marc, the ZF fill port is below the full fluid mark when the car isn't running. The FSM also states to keep the atf temp in the right range.

I will see if I can track down the steps and post them.


All of those things are also the case on my Infiniti. Put a sticker thermometer on the pan. I used an IR thermometer. If you're within a reasonable temperature range, you are fine. You can confirm this by measuring the fluid out and being sure you put the same amount back in.

 

[MarcS]

Originally Posted By: SilverFusion2010
Originally Posted By: MarcS
Originally Posted By: philipp10


Did you look closely at what came out? How did it look?





Looked like that



Yum!

Does it have a burnt smell at all?


I have smelled burnt atf and this wasn't that. It didnt smell fresh either. It looks pitch black, but this was the factory fill so theres blue assembly lube mixed in.