New Furnace/AC unit for my Home

[NJ_Car_Owner]

To the OP ... Installation is just as important as the equipment, maybe more so. A good installation can take mediocre equipment and make it work great (limited problems) where the best equipment installed badly will be problematic. I have a 14-15 YO Amana unit that the heater is/was 92+ efficient and the AC is/was 14+ SEER. They replaced the furnace and AC unit that was with the house which was built in 1970 (can't say if they were original as we bought the house in 2000). Very happy with the purchase, at the time I wanted multi-stage units and the company said to stay away from them because if and when they break troubleshooting may be a problem. In the years I've owned the system I have had 1 service call on it, the service company replaced the pressure switches (2) as they were parallel and it was up and running; I haven't had any issues with the refrigerant and haven't had the need to have it checked. Amana is owned by Goodman now and I believe it was just being bought by Goodman back when I purchased the system. I never heard of Amana in the HVAC field before and I was surprised to see how well built it is - built like a tank! Of course that was back then and things could have changed.

My advice is to get multiple quotes for a system. My quotes ranged from over $12,000 to around $3,500 - the Amana was the lowest priced unit. I believe it has paid for itself at least 2x, maybe more. I would consider a multi stage unit today as they have been around a while now but don't think I would pay a lot more for one. Of course as I write this my wife and I are talking about moving in 5-7 years as our sons get on with their lives and I may feel different if we were planning on staying for another 20 years.

Some companies build other brands so they may be very similar - Goodman and Amana, American Standard and Trane and I think I've read others like Rheem, Lennox and York make other brands as well.

Living in NJ we get hot, humid summers and relatively mild winters but even on the hottest or coldest days they have been able to keep up. AC may struggle if the temps get to over 100 F but that's not typical temps and my house is 2 story.

There is a HVAC forum that has a ton of professionals on it and they are just as willing to help as people here are. If you are interested, I can post it.

 

[dishdude]

Originally Posted By: JustinH

Yes the AC/Furnace is in the attic. It is very common where I am. I know out west there are AC units on a roof, but I have not seen that here at all, unless it is a commercial structure.


My furnace is in the attic, but the compressor/condenser are outside on the ground. How does it work having the AC in the attic?

 

[sleddriver]

Originally Posted By: JustinH
Originally Posted By: sleddriver
Originally Posted By: JustinH
We are saving for a new AC/Gas furnace for our central Texas home.

Current unit is 13 years old.

I keep it clean and running well, but we know it is towards its end of life.
Curious what you're basing this on. Please advise.

Based on my neighbors who have replaced systems in the past year. These houses are about 13 years old.
That's not very old. If you have a 410a system though, life expectancy might be different.

All capacitors need to be checked annually. Once they drift out of spec, the fan & compressor motors will pull more & more current to start and run. I think newer systems might use VFD or DC motors rather than the old-school AC motors.

Both evap & conden. coils need to be clean. Some attic units are tough to access the evap core. They get hair/lint/dirt/mold/etc growing on them (dark & humid)and slowly lose their ability to efficiently absorb heat and dehumidify. I think the high SEER evap cores have very, very closely spaced fins which could easily clog over time. On a neighbors unit I observed, seeing the intake of the evap core means cutting open the return air plenum! Since that wasn't done, his hasn't been cleaned in 9-10yrs

That can't be good. He complains about a humid house....go figure.

 

[mjk]

Look into Ruud or Rheem in your area...

 

[Nick1994]

Originally Posted By: Al
My conclusion from your statement is that you are blowing a relative fortune away bc you have zero insulation and/or you have a severly malfunctioning system.
It's actually insulated pretty good. The hottest my electric bill ever gets with the A/C cranked down to 73 and it's 115+ outside is $270 in July which is dirt cheap. My grandmother's was $600+ last year in the summer, that house had some issues. Other summer months is maybe $200 or $220 at the very most, $100 in the winter (electric heater).

 

[beanoil]

Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Originally Posted By: Al
My conclusion from your statement is that you are blowing a relative fortune away bc you have zero insulation and/or you have a severly malfunctioning system.
It's actually insulated pretty good. The hottest my electric bill ever gets with the A/C cranked down to 73 and it's 115+ outside is $270 in July which is dirt cheap. My grandmother's was $600+ last year in the summer, that house had some issues. Other summer months is maybe $200 or $220 at the very most, $100 in the winter (electric heater).

That is crazy. I'd go broke paying that bill. You may have plenty of insulation, but is the house tight minimizing leaks? I can be in the back of my house, in the bath, and hear the flapper in the exhaust fan move when a door opens to the garage 115 feet away.
I'm in the midwest, just outside Saint Louis, famous for heat and humidity in the summer. 2425 square feet.
Highest electric bill ever was 250, in the winter, running radiant floor heat in the 4 season room over Christmas for entertaining, and I thought that was highway robbery. Gas is bundled with electric on bill.
Most times, 135 a month, including summer. I'm hoping for even less when the new system is installed next Friday. I know that old Heil system has been struggling the last year or so. My last bill, mild spring weather, 105.

 

[JustinH]

Originally Posted By: sleddriver
Originally Posted By: JustinH
Originally Posted By: sleddriver
Originally Posted By: JustinH
We are saving for a new AC/Gas furnace for our central Texas home.

Current unit is 13 years old.

I keep it clean and running well, but we know it is towards its end of life.
Curious what you're basing this on. Please advise.

Based on my neighbors who have replaced systems in the past year. These houses are about 13 years old.
That's not very old. If you have a 410a system though, life expectancy might be different.

All capacitors need to be checked annually. Once they drift out of spec, the fan & compressor motors will pull more & more current to start and run. I think newer systems might use VFD or DC motors rather than the old-school AC motors.

Both evap & conden. coils need to be clean. Some attic units are tough to access the evap core. They get hair/lint/dirt/mold/etc growing on them (dark & humid)and slowly lose their ability to efficiently absorb heat and dehumidify. I think the high SEER evap cores have very, very closely spaced fins which could easily clog over time. On a neighbors unit I observed, seeing the intake of the evap core means cutting open the return air plenum! Since that wasn't done, his hasn't been cleaned in 9-10yrs

That can't be good. He complains about a humid house....go figure.


Thanks, I keep both coils spotless clean, and replace fiberglass filters every two weeks.

I will have a service to have the electrical looked at.

 

[Nick1994]

Originally Posted By: beanoil
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Originally Posted By: Al
My conclusion from your statement is that you are blowing a relative fortune away bc you have zero insulation and/or you have a severly malfunctioning system.
It's actually insulated pretty good. The hottest my electric bill ever gets with the A/C cranked down to 73 and it's 115+ outside is $270 in July which is dirt cheap. My grandmother's was $600+ last year in the summer, that house had some issues. Other summer months is maybe $200 or $220 at the very most, $100 in the winter (electric heater).

That is crazy. I'd go broke paying that bill. You may have plenty of insulation, but is the house tight minimizing leaks? I can be in the back of my house, in the bath, and hear the flapper in the exhaust fan move when a door opens to the garage 115 feet away.
I'm in the midwest, just outside Saint Louis, famous for heat and humidity in the summer. 2425 square feet.
Highest electric bill ever was 250, in the winter, running radiant floor heat in the 4 season room over Christmas for entertaining, and I thought that was highway robbery. Gas is bundled with electric on bill.
Most times, 135 a month, including summer. I'm hoping for even less when the new system is installed next Friday. I know that old Heil system has been struggling the last year or so. My last bill, mild spring weather, 105.
Yeah I really am thrilled with $270 in July, around here it's great. We get over 110 days of over 100 degrees a year.

 

[JustinH]

Power prices must be cheaper down here. I have paid $60 or less all year for electric in my sub 1100sq foot home.

Summer when it gets to 100-105 degrees we go up to maybe $125-$150 but no more.

Also we have gas water heater, you probably have electric in phoenix.

 

[JustinH]

Just to update the thread. I spent about $25 in parts from Amazon, and replaced the run capacitor, and contactor myself.

Capacitor was from 2010 and was out of spec a little bit, and contactor was burned.

This thread saved me a service call, and I taught myself how to do it viewing a bunch of youtube videos.

It takes some precaution, common sense, and need to discharge the capacitor, and all power sources before touching anything.

Took about 30 minutes. Probably would have been a $350 service call if not more.

 

[sleddriver]

Nice work. I buy motor caps from a local electric motor service shop. You can also get them from WW Grainger.

If you're compressor has a 'start kit' on it, it will tend to last longer. This is a big cap + relay that provides an extra 'shove' upon start. You can also add one yourself. Sometimes a compressor will stall & buzz and the unfortunate HO will think their system is Toes Up and many, not all, contractors will willingly sell them a new system. A start kit will solve that problem quickly.

 

[DBMaster]

Good point about the hard start kit, Sleddriver. Other reasons people add them to their condenser units are to resolve home lighting dimming when the compressor starts as well as computer reboots (in more extreme cases). The kits are usually more than just a capacitor, though. Most come with relays as well. That's to switch over from the normal start capacitor to the hard start capacitor. I've replaced one of these kits on the GF's unit. My 2005 vintage Rheem condenser does not incorporate one.

 

[sleddriver]

Originally Posted By: DBMaster
Good point about the hard start kit, Sleddriver. ...The kits are usually more than just a capacitor, though. Most come with relays as well. That's to switch over from the normal start capacitor to the hard start capacitor.
Note I did mention "big cap + relay"

 

[DBMaster]

Originally Posted By: sleddriver
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
Good point about the hard start kit, Sleddriver. ...The kits are usually more than just a capacitor, though. Most come with relays as well. That's to switch over from the normal start capacitor to the hard start capacitor.
Note I did mention "big cap + relay"


Oops. Just like at the office. I read it too quickly. Leave it to BITOGers to never miss a mistake. 8-D

 

[rshaw125]

I have a 35 year old system in a rental property. Had some parts over the years but still going strong. No complaints from the tenant.
I have spoken to a few HVAC people and they said I could replace the unit with a new R22 if I wanted save some $ for about $1800. Key word replacement.

 

[Milkman]

As an update, I am in the process of getting 3 bids for my "System".

I'll keep everyone posted.

As always, thanks for the help.

Frank

 

[Milkman]

I have received 2 bid for my HVAC System:

They are within $100 of each other for the following:

92% Plus 60,000 BTU Furnace
14 Seer Ac unit.

One contractor is selling Rheem. The other is selling Bryant. They are both Local and reliable folks.

Any difference between these 2 brands ?

Both of the people that I spoke with I wouldn't hesitate to buy from.

Thanks.

 

[Kruse]

Originally Posted By: Milkman
I have received 2 bid for my HVAC System:

By now it probably just boils down to the warranty and the small details. Get it (in writing) what the warranty is for each unit and compare them. Do both sellers have an adequate inventory or can at least get parts within a day? Since this is a 90+ bid, do you need PVC venting installed? If so, do they pay for that? The AC pad is included? And any new wiring or outside disconnect boxes? The bid you go with could be decided just on the COO of the units. I think most Rheem units are made in Mexico. What about Bryant?
In other words, are both of these bids turn-key bids, or are they just for the units and you get hit with extra charges?

 

[Milkman]

Both bids are "Turn Key".

I did not check on the COO of the units, but I will.

Thanks.

 

[Milkman]

Does anyone know anything about "Temp-Star" products ? I got a very interesting bid for a new system using this equipment.

Thanks