Japanese vs American cars

[ls1mike]

Originally Posted By: gregk24
When your talking 200K + miles, how the vehicle was maintained is far more important than the vehicles make. Having said that when you look at various sources Japanese makes still come out on top in the reliability department. It is true however, that other manufacturers are catching up. IMO GM still isn't doing so hot in the reliability department, they would be near the bottom of my list. The new 1.5 turbo is having some pretty serious teething issues.

That is one engine, you are forgetting the whole LS/LT serious of engines. The LTG 2.0 has been pretty trouble free.

 

[aquariuscsm]

I've always thought the Japanese were superior at making 4 cyl's,while the Americans were superior at making V8's

 

[Kawiguy454]

I just gave my son my F150 just south of 200K miles. A machine like any can be good or bad usually based on the underlying engineering controlling the frequency of needing new parts. All brands have had lemons and also winners. Google any individual make/model and you'll see what side of the fence that vehicle leans toward.

My brother drives/delivers meds for a living and bought one of their used hondas (Element i think) with over 300K on it. He told me they are known for durability and highly desirable. He says they are driven around the clock and oil is changed weekly.

 

[SirTanon]

Car brand isn't nearly as important as it used to be.

Why? Because nowadays, brands are made all over. Heck, within one brand, it's not uncommon for different cars to be made in different places.

Take my 2010 Fusion for example. It's a Ford (American brand), has an engine by Mazda (Japanese brand), and is built in Mexico.

Go back about 5 years, and I had a Ford Probe GT, which was a Ford-branded car, but was actually designed by Mazda and used something like 50% Mazda components, including the engine and Trans. Heck, it was basically a Mazda 626 in disguise.

IMHO, the more important thing nowadays is "how does the car meet my needs and expectations?"

 

[Skid]

You're in Wisconsin? Don't cars rust out there by 200-300k? I can't imagine buying an appliance with that many miles.

 

[SeaJay]

200,000 miles in a used car that is 6-8 years old is one thing. Buying a 15 year old used car with 200,000 miles is quite another which is about what it will take for the average driver to get to the 200,000 total.

The years do take a toll on the car above and beyond the wear just from the mileage.

 

[FutureDoc]

Originally Posted By: 4WD
Tell that to taxi drivers and law enforcement - what vehicles ?


Missed this. Never spent time around LE or government vehicle huh? I know Taxi folks around here have switched to Toyota around here. All Prius, Sienna or Camry Hybrid. Occasionally an Escape Hybrid. Plus most tend to buy off lease Hybrids/Toyotas too.

Lets me say this: if one of our LE vehicle makes it to 100K, then it is the vehicle of the century. We do not buy them for reliability. We buy them because they are cheap and because they fit out needs. We retire them to the auction block at 70-90K, 5-7 accidents, with 4-6 years on them. These are local LE vehicles, not HWP, so 1000-1500 miles in a month is normal but sometimes less. We often wear through the seats/floormats and carpet by 50-60K. Normally, they have major engine and tranny work done for the last 20-30K that will make the average consumer run away in horror. Eventually out budget-overlords over-rule the repair and they are sent to become auction victim. Those are abused little vehicles. Thinking of which I think we just replaced the motor mounts, headlights, and alternator in one Utility Interceptor at 42K.

I will give you a good example on a non-pursuit vehicle. I have a 2013 Impala that was acquired new... for $18K. Yup, it was a MRSP car of about $27,000 and they dropped 33% of the MSRP. So with a discount of We gobble the outgoing or aging body-style vehicle up from Detroit. Yup. Cheap, cheap, cheap. Nissan is now a supplier for us... but again, cheap. They can't move their work vans and a few other models so they dump them to the Gov fleets. Why would Toyota give us a new Camry for 15-18K? Nope, they can sell them for $25+ all day long.

In the fleet world, there is a reason the old panther bodies were so loved. It was not because they were the paradigm of reliably. They were "good" but not significantly better than similar-era unibody Taurus for the most part (but they did have the better powertrain). The real trick was that they were cheaper to repair for bodywork needs. They are like legos for that. Parts were plentiful and cheap and a decent size/storage area.

 

[4WD]

If you look at the OP statement - one video dude he mentioned (GM basher) was in line with the period taxi and LEO's ran Crown Vic - in that same period - my company had dozens and dozens of them - solid cars. Figured this 'son' spanned that talking about his dad ... (What vehicles means model ?)
This whole thread must of spanned 35 years without identifying that range of time ...

 

[4WD]

110k, 161k, 135k, 162k, 88k, 150k, 158k, 198k, 181k, 260k, and so on ...

Former Ford Crown Vic units for sale in Houston ... and yeah - likely treated as you described ...

 

[artificialist]

In my family, the experience has been that Honda and Toyota were better than everything else. However, there was an extremely bad Japanese car in my family, and that was mom's 1985 Nissan Maxima. It was probably because Nissan wanted to quickly build a V6 FWD car, that way they could be ahead of the competition. Back then, if you wanted a car with 150 horsepower and all the Knight Rider gadgetry, that car would probably cost significantly more than the Maxima. Other members of my family have owned Nissans, but they were great.

The way I see it, Japanese cars have a sort of ranking system.
1. Honda and Toyota
2. Nissan and Mazda
3. Mitsubishi

That is why comparing one Japanese car to another Japanese car or to an American car is not so straightforward.

Meanwhile, there was always an excellent American car, it was the Ford Crown Vic.

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted By: skip029

I want the Toyota Supra engine with Subaru's AWD in a '67 Ford Mustang Fastback and leather interior of an Escalade please!


I fixed that for you......

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted By: artificialist
In my family,... there was an extremely bad Japanese car in my family, and that was mom's 1985 Nissan Maxima.


Worst car I ever owned was a 1986 300ZX. I don't think there was maybe a dozen days total - ever - that neither something either wasn't working (but still drove) or it outright broke (no drivey). I hated working on it, too.

Second worst was a 1992 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX AWD turbo. Man, it was fun to drive - when it was running right and not broken. It was also in chronic need of needing something fixed.

 

[Alex_V]

Relating to compact and mid-size sedans and SUV's I believe the gap, on average, is narrower than it was in the 90's, but as much as I like my domestics I can't deny Honda and Toyota (primarily) still seem to win the contest of post-150,000 mile longevity over models from the big 3.

However, the primary factor in people's disbelief of your view on high mileage cars is ignorance: of the potential buyer and the average previous owner. I've seen cars with 200,000 that I'd pay the equivalent of twice what I would others with 90K - a lot of people have a perception that at 140-180,000 when things start needing fixed at any frequency (after as many miles of nearly no attention) that the car is worn out and they need to get rid of it before it self-distructs in some way and they're stuck with a $500 boat anchor. Some perpetuate that myth by being the type of driver that it's actually true of; in other cases it's just due to a mechanic that's better at keeping customers than actually fixing cars, hence giving the customer the impression there's just nothing more either of them could have done to keep it in better repair.

 

[dishdude]

Originally Posted By: gregk24
When your talking 200K + miles, how the vehicle was maintained is far more important than the vehicles make. Having said that when you look at various sources Japanese makes still come out on top in the reliability department. It is true however, that other manufacturers are catching up. IMO GM still isn't doing so hot in the reliability department, they would be near the bottom of my list. The new 1.5 turbo is having some pretty serious teething issues.


10 years later and Honda is still having VTC actuator issues.

 

[skip029]

Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: skip029

I want the Toyota Supra engine with Subaru's AWD in a '67 Ford Mustang Fastback and leather interior of an Escalade please!


I fixed that for you......

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Scotty Kilmer is entertaining to watch. The problem is he is stuck in the 1980s. He claims everything Toyota makes will be completely problem free for 300k miles. That isn't the case with ANY newer car. Even the Japanese have cheapened their cars and every car made is more complex now than a few years ago. The guy comparing his 1994 Celica to a new Corolla makes no sense, they are completely different vehicles.


He has a pretty entertaining one trashing Mercedes. But some of the things they did like 2 spark plugs per cylinder they stopped doing and I think the year he trashed, they were pretty bad back then so they did deserve some of it. But with lots of stuff on line and 3rd party code readers that can read MB specific codes in the $60-$150 range, it's not as bad as he makes it out to be. Forum support is also pretty good. I think there's some other youtube video of a guy driving an S600 with the V12 engine for around 12k.

 

[hpb]

Originally Posted By: artificialist

The way I see it, Japanese cars have a sort of ranking system.
1. Honda and Toyota
2. Nissan and Mazda
3. Mitsubishi


I agree that there are tiers among the Japanese cars, but I'd put it like this:

1. Mazda
2. Toyota, Honda and Subaru
3. Nissan, Mitsubishi, Suzuki and Isuzu

I think Mazda are doing it better than anyone else at the moment, their cars look great, drive well and have quality paint and interiors.

 

[02SE]

Originally Posted By: jeepman3071

An example is how he praises Toyota trucks. They are reliable, yes, but a quick search reveals lots of people who have had frame problems and Toyota denied any responsibility.



Wrong.

Dana Corp made the frames incorrectly. As a result, Toyota won a multi-million dollar lawsuit against Dana Corp for those incorrectly made frames, AND has replaced thousands of early Tacoma, Tundra, and Sequoia frames, or bought the trucks back at well over blue book.

 

[asiancivicmaniac]

When I was a kid, my dad's first new car ever was a '96 Stratus. It was a piece of turd and it turned our whole family off from American cars for the longest time. Up until recently our driveway has a Honda, a Toyota, a Nissan, and a Mazda. Mom's Camry has close to 200k miles and was abused by my sister through college and has needed nothing beside basic maintenance. My Maxima has needed a little more than the Camry, but it has been dead reliable and it has held up well. The Miata runs great and is one of the most fun cars I've driven. Dad's CR-V hasn't been in the fleet long enough to tell, but it feels well built and the fuel economy is great for what it is.

But, most recently, American cars have become better than what they were making from the '80s-early '00s. Their interiors have become nicer, their design language looks better, and their engines are no longer archaic. I think a lot of it has to do with influence from their European subsidiaries. I recently purchased a Ford that was designed in Germany, built in Mexico, with an English drivetrain. It has been good so far. I wouldn't have considered anything from the big three 5 years ago with exception of their trucks.

On that note, I would not buy anything with more than 75k miles if I needed something reliable for daily driving. At 200k miles, I consider most cars as well used.The engine and transmission may still run well, but the alternator, starter, suspension, ignition coils, emission system, cooling system, HVAC system, etc. could fail unexpectedly. There are high mileage vehicles I would consider though because of their reputations for being durable. The Land Cruiser, Lexus LS, and 4Runner are examples of these exceptions.

 

[gregk24]

Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: gregk24
When your talking 200K + miles, how the vehicle was maintained is far more important than the vehicles make. Having said that when you look at various sources Japanese makes still come out on top in the reliability department. It is true however, that other manufacturers are catching up. IMO GM still isn't doing so hot in the reliability department, they would be near the bottom of my list. The new 1.5 turbo is having some pretty serious teething issues.


10 years later and Honda is still having VTC actuator issues.


Yes, I don't understand why they can't get that part right. Having said that, how many engines have we seen fail as a result? The K24 has been affected now for 9 years, and newer 1.5's have been affected for a short while as well. Just think of the THOUSANDS upon thousands of engines with this issue, yet few if any have failed as a result. Honda still ranks among the top in reliability.