Zimmerman trial BITOG style....

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Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: FXjohn
the stand your ground law is stupid and the liabilities will make the state back off on it. myself I prefer CC/OC and castle law which my state has. In my opinion Z abused his carry rights.


It doesn't matter that you "think" it is a "stupid" law because it is in FACT a legal right under Florida law.

Hopefully the Jury isn't swayed by emotion but by the actual events and the letter of the law. The reason the prosecution wanted women is because they could more easily appeal to their more emotional reactions. Not good.


Bottom line is that it is a certainty that Zimmerman only continued to follow Martin and in fact Martin confronted Zimmerman. Martin is largely responsible because HE instigated a confrontation, not the other way around. Martin failed to use reasonable behavior and call 911 and request that police intervene and question Zimmerman, instead Martin attacked Zimmerman. We know this is true.


A citizen isn't allowed to disagree with the law?



Sure they can. But the end result in this case is that the system can only function within the realm of law as it is written, if you don't like the law, the citizens must have the it changed by the legislature. Can't just seat of the pants to meet certain PC needs. Which appears to be happening in this case.
 
Originally Posted By: otis24
What is "stupid" about Stand Your Ground? It simply states that if you are in a public place that you have a legal right to be, then you have a right to be left alone unmolested by scum and riffraff and that should you be accosted, you have a right to defend yourself, not retreat.


So Trayvon Martin was simply "standing his ground". I see.
 
A citizen can disagree with the law. THe duty of a jury is to decide if the law, as written, was broken based upon then facts presented.
 
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: LargeCarManX2
Libbys going to hang em!


And that means what?


He's thinking about canning corn and beans while singing a well known jingle from the '70's.
 
Originally Posted By: Joe_Power
NOT GUILTY.......I'd of done the same thing. Except it probably would have been a lot messier.



see post #2
 
Originally Posted By: FXjohn


So Trayvon Martin was simply "standing his ground". I see.


How so, Zimmerman was only following Martin, not the best idea, but he was NOT attacking the subject. It was in fact Martin that was the aggressor in this situation, as he initiated first physical contact, it is CLEAR that is what occurred small details aside. When Martin made that first physical connection with Zimmerman by way of his fists, Zimmerman had every right under the law to respond with deadly force, but I believe that Zimmerman only used the gun, when after telling Martin to stop and get off him, the subject refused and continued to pummel him with his fists. The subject Martin had NO right to make an attack against Zimmerman just because he was being followed.

The logic in this case is easy to follow. only the prosecution is trying to blur the lines.
 
No, Trayvon Martin didnt stand his ground. He invaded Zimmermans personal space and accosted him. Had he chosen to stand his ground, he would have called 911 and reported that he was being followed by a stranger. It was Zimmerman who called 911.
 
Originally Posted By: otis24
No, Trayvon Martin didnt stand his ground. He invaded Zimmermans personal space and accosted him. Had he chosen to stand his ground, he would have called 911 and reported that he was being followed by a stranger. It was Zimmerman who called 911.


Bingo.

Wow good to see that there are others out there that see this aspect of the case, the media is trying to just NOT talk about this critical aspect of it. How interesting.
 
Quote:
George Zimmerman was there. He brought a gun, which belonged to him. George Zimmerman used George Zimmerman's gun to shoot Trayvon Martin dead. There is not a shred of dispute about these facts.

So we get a self-defense case, because self-defense is what a killer claims when no other claim can possibly work. George Zimmerman shot an unarmed teenager, who had been minding his own business, because he had no other choice. According to whom? To George Zimmerman. Stripped to the basics, here's Zimmerman's defense: Nuh-uh.

Specifically, according to Zimmerman, here is what happened: Trayvon Martin attacked him, without provocation. Martin overpowered him. Martin began beating him, with the intent to kill him, and was on his way to succeeding.

No one but Zimmerman says Martin was the aggressor. No one but Zimmerman says Zimmerman was hopelessly losing the fight. No one but Zimmerman says that, of the two of them—the adult with a lethal weapon and the minor with a package of candy—Martin was the one who was too dangerous to live.

The only person who could directly dispute this story, point by point, was left dead on the grass that night. Zimmerman puts movie-villain dialogue in Martin's mouth. Zimmerman describes the one-sided savagery of the beating. Trayvon Martin isn't around to supply his own point of view.

Why should we believe Zimmerman about any of this? Or—more to the point—all of it, because without every part of his story, his defense collapses. He pursued Martin. He shot Martin. According to him, in between those events, the teenage boy turned into a werewolf, an unstoppable savage would-be killer, and the armed neighborhood watchman became his helpless victim. If it didn't happen exactly that way, Zimmerman has no defense.


http://gawker.com/will-george-zimmerman-get-away-with-murder-757850043
 
Originally Posted By: FXjohn
Originally Posted By: otis24
What is "stupid" about Stand Your Ground? It simply states that if you are in a public place that you have a legal right to be, then you have a right to be left alone unmolested by scum and riffraff and that should you be accosted, you have a right to defend yourself, not retreat.


So Trayvon Martin was simply "standing his ground". I see.


Was he? I think this case may hinge on who the jury feels was the aggressor. The defense seems to have done a better job at presenting their case as well as cross examining the witnesses, which could be enough for an acquittal. The fact that the judge has all of a sudden agreed to allow the jury to consider manslaughter makes me think she knows a murder conviction is a long shot. It almost seems like she wants him to be convicted of something, right or wrong, to "keep the peace". This has been an interesting trial pertaining to an extremely unfortunate chain of events which shows just how fast things can go downhill.
 
Originally Posted By: otis24
No, Trayvon Martin didnt stand his ground. He invaded Zimmermans personal space


oh. I thought zimmerman went back to his car.
 
Agreed.

The Judge is doing EVERYTHING she can (including suddenly allowing the prosecution to consider manslaughter charge at the last minute ) so that they can appease a certain "community" there is no question that there have been many voices of that same community that if Zimmerman is found not quilty that they will riot, and destroy property. I don't doubt it since the history is there. Simple historical facts.

Actually I would consider the Judges' behavior flawed enough to consider a mistrial in and of itself. She is NOT impartial.
 
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Certainly part of this discussion should be the past actions of TM. He was in trouble at school, was caught in the past with stolen womens jewelry, had instruments on robbery on his person and was a known drug user. While we don't know his side of the story the night he was killed, we do know the events of his life in the days and months leading up to his death.
 
Originally Posted By: otis24
Anywhere close enough to put a hand on Zimmerman was in Zimmermans personal space.


He was following an innocent citizen walking through the neighborhood. Zimmerman put himself into Martin's personal space.
 
Originally Posted By: otis24
Anywhere close enough to put a hand on Zimmerman was in Zimmermans personal space.



Anywhere close enough to put a hand on Trayvon Martin was in Trayvon Martin's personal space

I am starting to get this.
 
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Agreed.

The Judge is doing EVERYTHING she can (including suddenly allowing the prosecution to consider manslaughter charge at the last minute ) so that they can appease a certain "community" there is no question that there have been many voices of that same community that if Zimmerman is found not quilty that they will riot, and destroy property. I don't doubt it since the history is there. Simple historical facts.

Actually I would consider the Judges' behavior flawed enough to consider a mistrial in and of itself. She is NOT impartial.


Agreed.
 
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