Zimmerman trial BITOG style....

[dishdude]

Originally Posted By: GreeCguy
Certainly part of this discussion should be the past actions of TM. He was in trouble at school, was caught in the past with stolen womens jewelry, had instruments on robbery on his person and was a known drug user. While we don't know his side of the story the night he was killed, we do know the events of his life in the days and months leading up to his death.


Zimmerman had run ins with the law, let's make sure we bring those up too. The difference is Zimmerman was a grown man, not a kid in trouble at school.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: otis24
Anywhere close enough to put a hand on Zimmerman was in Zimmermans personal space.


The general consensus is that Zimmerman was returning to the car and continue to follow Martin from the vehicle/road. But before Zimmerman could get in the car the subject Martin attacked. In fact Zimmerman was retreating from the situation, Martin was clearly making the aggressive actions.

I wish Martin would have survived so that he could be prosecuted for aggravated assault, A & B and attempted murder.

 

[JimPghPA]

At the recommendation of a post here on BITOG I have read "In the Gravest Extreme" from cover to cover, and have also recommended that excellent book regarding when and when not to use a lethal weapon, to others to read.

The Zimmerman trial makes me glad that I was carrying a big can of Whoop [censored] spray with me a few years ago when I was attacked in front of our house by some nut who happened to be a member of an other ethnic race.

The Whoop [censored] spray put an end to his aggression and after it really took hold of him caused him to completely collapse a block away, requiring him to get attention from an ambulance and a trip to the hospital, that also gave the local police the opportunity to charge him with assault (again, and also arrest him on an outstanding warrant). And the local legal help group represented me for free when his trial came up a year later and he was again found guilty of assault. This nut had a history of physical abusing other people including members of his own family, and also a history of theft and abusing drugs.

 

[dishdude]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: otis24
Anywhere close enough to put a hand on Zimmerman was in Zimmermans personal space.


The general consensus is that Zimmerman was returning to the car and continue to follow Martin from the vehicle/road. But before Zimmerman could get in the car the subject Martin attacked. In fact Zimmerman was retreating from the situation, Martin was clearly making the aggressive actions.


Oh yeah, Zimmerman was going to get an address. 3 streets in the entire neighborhood and he was lost...yeah I almost believe that.

 

[FXjohn]

just hang martin too and be done with it. keep the peace and no great loss. Neither one are worth more than a popcorn [censored], let alone all this.

 

[antiqueshell]

I'm amused with the folks on here playing slick lawyer and trying to divert attention away from irrefutable facts.



1)Martin made FIRST aggressive move to physically attack Zimmerman.


2)Zimmerman was returning to his vehicle when Martin attacked Zimmerman.

3) Martin had NO EXCUSE to use physical force just because Zimmerman was following him, Martin had the OBLIGATION to call 911 and request that police intervene.

 

[dishdude]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
I'm amused with the folks on here playing slick lawyer and trying to divert attention away from irrefutable facts.



1)Martin made FIRST aggressive move to physically attack Zimmerman.


2)Zimmerman was returning to his vehicle when Martin attacked Zimmerman.

3) Martin had NO EXCUSE to use physical force just because Zimmerman was following him, Martin had the OBLIGATION to call 911 and request that police intervene.



You don't know any of this. None of what you stated is backed up by physical evidence.

 

[Cutehumor]

Media on the toob saying Zimmerman shot an unarmed teen and killed him. so Zimmerman should at least get manslaughter which is a 20 yr prison sentence. oh if he gets off with no jail time, there might be a riot somewhere. IMHO

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: dishdude


You don't know any of this. None of what you stated is backed up by physical evidence.


Prove me wrong.

LOL

Fortunately for Zimmerman, subject Martin is dead so they must go with the evidence they have, Zimmerman is the only one that was there, his head shows signs of bruises which would have come from Martin punching him.

Unless Martin can come back from the dead, it doesn't matter.

 

[dishdude]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: dishdude


You don't know any of this. None of what you stated is backed up by physical evidence.


Prove me wrong.

LOL


Prove any of it with evidence, other than the statement of someone with a motive to lie. LOL

 

[MrHorspwer]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
I'm amused with the folks on here playing slick lawyer and trying to divert attention away from irrefutable facts.



1)Martin made FIRST aggressive move to physically attack Zimmerman.


2)Zimmerman was returning to his vehicle when Martin attacked Zimmerman.

3) Martin had NO EXCUSE to use physical force just because Zimmerman was following him, Martin had the OBLIGATION to call 911 and request that police intervene.



Quote:
According to whom? To George Zimmerman. Stripped to the basics, here's Zimmerman's defense: Nuh-uh.

 

[antiqueshell]

Yeah, those bruises, the result of Martin's fists prove it.


The past history of Martin as a trouble maker, thief, and drug abuser add to the truth of what Zimmerman states.

Heck, since the court sealed much of Martin's juvi records I bet that there is a rap sheet a mile long we just can't see it. LOL

 

[MrHorspwer]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Yeah, those bruises, the result of Martin's fists prove it.


Quote:
He pursued Martin. He shot Martin. According to him, in between those events, the teenage boy turned into a werewolf, an unstoppable savage would-be killer, and the armed neighborhood watchman became his helpless victim.

 

[dishdude]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Yeah, those bruises, the result of Martin's fists prove it.


Sounds to me like Zimmerman attempted to physically detain Martin, because he wasn't letting this punk get away.

 

[dishdude]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Yeah, those bruises, the result of Martin's fists prove it.


The past history of Martin as a trouble maker, thief, and drug abuser add to the truth of what Zimmerman states.

Heck, since the court sealed much of Martin's juvi records I bet that there is a rap sheet a mile long we just can't see it. LOL


Zimmerman has an arrest and conviction record as an adult. "LOL"

In 2005, Zimmerman was arrested and charged with "resisting officer with violence" and "battery of law enforcement officer." Both these felonies are considered third-degree. Due to his desperate attempts, the charges were reduced to "resisting officer without violence" and then the only remaining charge was also completely waived off when he entered an alcohol education program.
In the same year (2005), Zimmerman's ex-fiance, Veronica Zuazo, filed a civil motion for a restraining order, alleging domestic violence. In retaliation, Zimmerman filed for a retraining order against Zuazo and both these claims were resolved with both restraining orders granted.

 

[FXjohn]

Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Yeah, those bruises, the result of Martin's fists prove it.


Sounds to me like Zimmerman attempted to physically detain Martin, because he wasn't letting this punk get away.


get away with what exactly?

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Yeah, those bruises, the result of Martin's fists prove it.


Sounds to me like Zimmerman attempted to physically detain Martin, because he wasn't letting this punk get away.



Funny Zimmerman was trying to detain subject Martin while Martin was pummeling his fists into Zimmerman's face with 6'0 180 lb young man on top of him?

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
One thing I find very interesting is that at least in the mass media (although not sure it if has actually been brought up in the court room) was the question of why Martin didn't simply call 911 himself when he saw Zimmerman following instead of engaging him in a physical confrontation which we know is a fact, even if the details are not clear. Martin had equal responsibility to avoid a confrontation as much as Zimmerman did but I sure haven't heard this mentioned.


I think in general, black people are generally distrustful of both the police and calling 911. I'm not surprised he didn't call. And legally, no--Martin didn't actually have the same legal responsibility to retreat if he didn't initiate the confrontation. That's the way the law reads. If Zimmerman initiated the confrontation (which he clearly did by following TM), it was actually HIS legal responsibility to retreat to avoid the confrontation. Actually, if TM had a gun and he felt he was in eminent danger of grave bodily harm, e.g. he saw GZ's gun, he could have shot him, legally.


Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
I also believe that the Judge, when she queried Zimmerman about whether or not he would take the stand in his defense was IMPROPER protocol. That was a question for his counsel to handle. Frankly this Judge wants to make Zimmerman look bad, it has been apparent the entire time. She is very biased.


Agree, totally. If he's found guilty I think is grounds for appeal on a silver platter.

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Also I didn't know that the city fired the police chief and the head detective because NEITHER of them wanted to press charges against Zimmerman. The reason why they didn't was because they understand that under the "stand your ground" LAW a person has the right to use DEADLY FORCE when he is in fear for his life, when Martin was pounding away on Zimmerman the only thing the defendant was thinking was, "I think this crazy punk is going to kill me with his bare hands."


IMO, they SHOULD have been fired, and frankly bear a lot of responsibility for the whole mess. The did an inadequate job of investigating. Keep in mind, I don't think charges should have been brought. It seems they were brought for political reason after these guys dropped the ball. They didn't check his phone records, didn't interview the person he was talking to when he was shot? Sorry, that gives the appearance of not caring a lot when a kid is shot dead. I think they reached the right conclusion, but didn't do their due diligence in getting there...and they're largely responsible for the whole mess.

 

[dishdude]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Yeah, those bruises, the result of Martin's fists prove it.


Sounds to me like Zimmerman attempted to physically detain Martin, because he wasn't letting this punk get away.



Funny Zimmerman was trying to detain subject Martin while Martin was pummeling his fists into Zimmerman's fact with 6'0 180 lb young man on top of him?


Martin was 5'11 158 at the time of his death.

 

[MrHorspwer]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Yeah, those bruises, the result of Martin's fists prove it.


The past history of Martin as a trouble maker, thief, and drug abuser add to the truth of what Zimmerman states.

Heck, since the court sealed much of Martin's juvi records I bet that there is a rap sheet a mile long we just can't see it. LOL


Your insistent comments about Martin's rap sheet, which Zimmerman had no knowledge of at the time he shot him, lead to this...

Quote:
They may reject the actual term "racism," but they are remarkably open about the fact that they believe that black people are inherently dangerous and criminal, and that a black teenager is going to be a dangerous predator, and that at worst George Zimmerman merely activated Trayvon Martin's latent predatory nature.