Zimmerman trial BITOG style....

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: JOD


I think in general, black people are generally distrustful of both the police and calling 911. I'm not surprised he didn't call. And legally, no--Martin didn't actually have the same legal responsibility to retreat if he didn't initiate the confrontation. That's the way the law reads. If Zimmerman initiated the confrontation (which he clearly did by following TM), it was actually HIS legal responsibility to retreat to avoid the confrontation. Actually, if TM had a gun and he felt he was in eminent danger of grave bodily harm, e.g. he saw GZ's gun, he could have shot him, legally.

Following Martin was NOT a confrontation.

More excuses that because subject Martin was black he was exempt from following civil laws. Like calling 911. He didn't call his mistake, he would likely be alive today. Poor move because he was ethincally challenged.
Quote:

Agree, totally. If he's found guilty I think is grounds for appeal on a silver platter.

I don't think it will matter because if the jury can stick to the letter of the law and legal facts and away from emotion they must find him innocent of all charges.

 

[FXjohn]

I think most of martin's fans are 5'2" 190 pounds

 

[dishdude]

Originally Posted By: FXjohn
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Yeah, those bruises, the result of Martin's fists prove it.


Sounds to me like Zimmerman attempted to physically detain Martin, because he wasn't letting this punk get away.


get away with what exactly?


Walking through the neighborhood, apparently.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Yeah, those bruises, the result of Martin's fists prove it.


Sounds to me like Zimmerman attempted to physically detain Martin, because he wasn't letting this punk get away.


"get away" from what? Walking in a white neighborhood? See, this is why threads get locked. People can't rationally discuss what happened, but deteriorate to emotional arguments that have nothing to do with what happened. Guess what, it doesn't matter what he posted on his twitter, what music he liked, whether or not he smoked post, what he was wearing. By the way, I saw the photo...he was dressed like he was out of a j-crew ad. "Mr. Thug Life" was wearing a collared shirt with khakis... This is just another one of those things that folks are making up to stir emotion (just like those photos should TM when he was a 5 foot tall 12 year old).

Thing is, this really shouldn't have anything to do with the case. The case just seems to be a giant amplifier of people's fears and biases, on both sides...and the legalities of it don't seem to matter to most people. Hopefully the jury can do a better job than internet keyboard warriors. If they do, I don't see any possible way they can find him guilty.

 

[dishdude]

Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Yeah, those bruises, the result of Martin's fists prove it.


Sounds to me like Zimmerman attempted to physically detain Martin, because he wasn't letting this punk get away.


"get away" from what? Walking in a white neighborhood? See, this is why threads get locked. People can't rationally discuss what happened, but deteriorate to emotional arguments that have nothing to do with what happened. Guess what, it doesn't matter what he posted on his twitter, what music he liked, whether or not he smoked post, what he was wearing. By the way, I saw the photo...he was dressed like he was out of a j-crew ad. "Mr. Thug Life" was wearing a collared shirt with khakis... This is just another one of those things that folks are making up to stir emotion (just like those photos should TM when he was a 5 foot tall 12 year old).

Thing is, this really shouldn't have anything to do with the case. The case just seems to be a giant amplifier of people's fears and biases, on both sides...and the legalities of it don't seem to matter to most people. Hopefully the jury can do a better job than internet keyboard warriors. If they do, I don't see any possible way they can find him guilty.


This was a reference to the call Zimmerman made to the non-emergency police line. Zimmerman stated that "These punks always get away."

I feel that Zimmerman wasn't going to let this punk get away, confronted him and was going to detain him until police arrived.

I am trying to rationally discuss this topic and stay away from anything that might result in this thread getting locked. I apologize if I wasn't clear as I thought the verbiage of the non emergency call was pretty well known to anyone following this story.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell



Following Martin was NOT a confrontation.


Case law suggests otherwise

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
More excuses that because subject Martin was black he was exempt from following civil laws. Like calling 911. He didn't call his mistake, he would likely be alive today. Poor move because he was ethincally challenged.


Again, wrong. There's no "civil law" requiring you do call 911 if you feel you're in danger. You're just making up things.


Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
I don't think it will matter because if the jury can stick to the letter of the law and legal facts and away from emotion they must find him innocent of all charges.



I hope they can too, and I agree--I hope he's acquitted. Doesn't mean I agree with his actions, but they don't meet the standards of the charge.

 

[FXjohn]

in the end what was trayvon martin guilty of while walking home?
Is george zimmerman guilty of anything?

 

[ECUpirate]

So the facts are that we have a 911 recording of Zimmerman trying to get cops to the scene. We have a middle aged pudgy guy with a broken nose, blood running down his face, and cuts on his head. We have a teenager with a gunshot wound. We have an eye witness saying Martin was on top of Zimmerman. We have testimony from someone on the phone with Martin right before all this takes place, and her story has changed a few times. We have Martin's parents proclaiming the screams on the 911 call are his, Dad says maybe, then they finally both agree that they are probably definitely his. We have an "expert" that can't seem to make up his mind about how far away from Martin the gun was fired.

Maybe it's me but this seems like a joke. Don't get me wrong, I'm not prepared to pass judgement on anyone, but if you're the prosecution at this point you pretty much have to hope the jurors read some of the articles posted earlier in this thread instead of looking at the facts.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: FXjohn
in the end what was trayvon martin guilty of while walking home?
Is george zimmerman guilty of anything?



Guilty of attacking Zimmerman for following him, guilty of assault and battery, and attempted murder.

As Judge Judy says.....YOU CANNOT ATTACK A PERSON SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY ARE "FOLLOWING YOU".


Again what some Martin supporters refuse to accept, they jury can ONLY go with the evidence that can be provided, and Zimmerman is the only one that was actually there as a witness.

 

[FXjohn]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: FXjohn
in the end what was trayvon martin guilty of while walking home?
Is george zimmerman guilty of anything?



Guilty of attacking Zimmerman for following him, guilty of assault and battery, and attempted murder.

As Judge Judy says.....YOU CANNOT ATTACK A PERSON SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY ARE "FOLLOWING YOU".


Again what some Martin supporters refuse to accept, they jury can ONLY go with the evidence that can be provided, and Zimmerman is the only one that was actually there as a witness.


how do you know martin wasn't attacked???

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
I also believe that the Judge, when she queried Zimmerman about whether or not he would take the stand in his defense was IMPROPER protocol. That was a question for his counsel to handle. Frankly this Judge wants to make Zimmerman look bad, it has been apparent the entire time. She is very biased

I agree.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: ECUpirate
So the facts are that we have a 911 recording of Zimmerman trying to get cops to the scene. We have a middle aged pudgy guy with a broken nose, blood running down his face, and cuts on his head. We have a teenager with a gunshot wound. We have an eye witness saying Martin was on top of Zimmerman. We have testimony from someone on the phone with Martin right before all this takes place, and her story has changed a few times. We have Martin's parents proclaiming the screams on the 911 call are his, Dad says maybe, then they finally both agree that they are probably definitely his. We have an "expert" that can't seem to make up his mind about how far away from Martin the gun was fired.

Maybe it's me but this seems like a joke. Don't get me wrong, I'm not prepared to pass judgement on anyone, but if you're the prosecution at this point you pretty much have to hope the jurors read some of the articles posted earlier in this thread instead of looking at the facts.



Exactly.

These are known facts. If you take the evidence available you can only come to one conclusion. Innocent of all charges.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: FXjohn


how do you know martin wasn't attacked???


The physical evidence.

Subject Martin had no signs of bruising, ect. Zimmerman was clearly being pummeled.

 

[dishdude]

Originally Posted By: ECUpirate
So the facts are that we have a 911 recording of Zimmerman trying to get cops to the scene. We have a middle aged pudgy guy with a broken nose, blood running down his face, and cuts on his head. We have a teenager with a gunshot wound. We have an eye witness saying Martin was on top of Zimmerman. We have testimony from someone on the phone with Martin right before all this takes place, and her story has changed a few times. We have Martin's parents proclaiming the screams on the 911 call are his, Dad says maybe, then they finally both agree that they are probably definitely his. We have an "expert" that can't seem to make up his mind about how far away from Martin the gun was fired.

Maybe it's me but this seems like a joke. Don't get me wrong, I'm not prepared to pass judgement on anyone, but if you're the prosecution at this point you pretty much have to hope the jurors read some of the articles posted earlier in this thread instead of looking at the facts.


This is the best analysis of the entire case that I have read. I don't know what happened that night, none of us ever will. I do know that a 17 year old is dead because of the actions and interaction that Zimmerman initiated and for that he needs to be held accountable and responsible for what occurred that evening.

I am further troubled by his complete lack of remorse, and that he stated to Sean Hannity in his interview that he would have done nothing different that night, and that it was "God's plan".

If I were in Zimmerman's shoes, I would have done anything to take that night back, and claiming it was "God's plan" is nothing but proof that he is a coward.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell

I also believe that the Judge, when she queried Zimmerman about whether or not he would take the stand in his defense was IMPROPER protocol. That was a question for his counsel to handle. Frankly this Judge wants to make Zimmerman look bad, it has been apparent the entire time. She is very biased.
...


and all Zimmerman had to say was, "I defer to my attorney."

Counsel could have advised him that he could defer to his attorney. Instead he kept objecting and being overruled as if the judge would suddenly change her mind.

And the knock knock joke? This guy is a freakin' clown and will have several years of celebrity status for it.

I deal with attorneys several times a week. I absolutely do not like 75% of them. I am pretty certain that I would not personally like Don West at all.

 

[otis24]

My initial thoughts and feelings were that Zimmerman was trying to play cop. His statement that "these punks always get away" would certainly make me feel that Z was someone who might try to detain Martin. That crossed my mind as well. Martin certainly would have been justified in defending himself and Z's actions could certainly be construed as murder. However, i dont think there will be any evidence to support those assumptions. The case will hinge on the evidence, and unfortunately, lots of emotions!

 

[Slick17601]

I think the area better be ready for riots if their is a not guilty verdict. I do not understand the point of destroying your own hometown but it will likely happen.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: dishdude
. I do know that a 17 year old is dead because of the actions and interaction that Zimmerman initiated and for that he needs to be held accountable and responsible for what occurred that evening.




Martin initiated the confrontation Zimmerman was only following the subject. Martin is responsible for his own demise. Zimmerman was performing his duties as a neighborhood watchman.



Quote:

I am further troubled by his complete lack of remorse, and that he stated to Sean Hannity in his interview that he would have done nothing different that night, and that it was "God's plan".


I believe the reason why Zimmerman is not remorseful is because Martin attacked him first and was pummeling him in an attempt to kill his "follower" .

Quote:

If I were in Zimmerman's shoes, I would have done anything to take that night back, and claiming it was "God's plan" is nothing but proof that he is a coward.


I think he probably wished he didn't have to kill Martin, but he did what he felt was necessary to preserve his own life.

Sorry to say but my guess is that Martin would have eventually ended up injuring or murdering a totally innocent person in the long run so it may have been the best outcome for him.

 

[dishdude]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell

Sorry to say but my guess is that Martin would have eventually ended up injuring or murdering a totally innocent person in the long run so it may have been the best outcome for him.


Please clarify this last line. I don't want to put any words in your mouth.

 

[ECUpirate]

Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: ECUpirate
So the facts are that we have a 911 recording of Zimmerman trying to get cops to the scene. We have a middle aged pudgy guy with a broken nose, blood running down his face, and cuts on his head. We have a teenager with a gunshot wound. We have an eye witness saying Martin was on top of Zimmerman. We have testimony from someone on the phone with Martin right before all this takes place, and her story has changed a few times. We have Martin's parents proclaiming the screams on the 911 call are his, Dad says maybe, then they finally both agree that they are probably definitely his. We have an "expert" that can't seem to make up his mind about how far away from Martin the gun was fired.

Maybe it's me but this seems like a joke. Don't get me wrong, I'm not prepared to pass judgement on anyone, but if you're the prosecution at this point you pretty much have to hope the jurors read some of the articles posted earlier in this thread instead of looking at the facts.


This is the best analysis of the entire case that I have read. I don't know what happened that night, none of us ever will. I do know that a 17 year old is dead because of the actions and interaction that Zimmerman initiated and for that he needs to be held accountable and responsible for what occurred that evening.

I am further troubled by his complete lack of remorse, and that he stated to Sean Hannity in his interview that he would have done nothing different that night, and that it was "God's plan".

If I were in Zimmerman's shoes, I would have done anything to take that night back, and claiming it was "God's plan" is nothing but proof that he is a coward.


I can't say that I disagree with most of that. When we throw out the race baiters there seems to be 2 sides of rational argument about this, one for "Zimmerman initiated it by following", and the other "Zimmerman defended himself while being pummeled". In this case it seems, at least to me, that nothing illegal happened until the physical altercation. The events leading up to the fight are irrelevant in the eyes of the law pertaining to this case, as unfortunate as that may be. I can sit back and Monday morning quarterback this whole thing, saying how GZ should have left him alone and that I would never put myself in that situation, etc., but that's ridiculous. Neither person set out that night to get involved in a life or death battle and a simple situation turned deadly very quick. When you look at this case from a legal standpoint it's open and shut. The fact that it made it to a trial is a direct result of political pressure and grandstanding. It's a racially divisive issue and I think that's what it's designed to be. Sad all the way around.