PSA - Scams targeting the elderly and MLM

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Good morning folks. From time to time I like to remind friends and co-workers to keep tabs on their elderly relatives. My grandmother probably sent $10,000 to scammers over the years. I discussed that here in greater detail. This is the time of the year when real and fake charities are at it, so keep an eye out for scams.

Part two of the PSA:

Multi level marketing is a thinly-veiled pyramid scheme. Although legal, these often rely on playing fast and loose with current FCC/FTC regulations. This is not a legitimate business strategy. Only 1% of "consultants" ever make money from these operations, while the real earnings are sent up the... triangular structure. People are pressured to take advantage of personal relationships to recruit others to do the same. I'll share a personal anecdote below, but the FTC has a decent fact sheet here.

MLM companies often market to lower income brackets and people without business education. They'll make grand claims about how you can become an entrepreneur and own your own business, which sound great but are often far from the truth. Please don't get wrapped up in these scams. If a company has to tell you that they're not a pyramid scheme, then they're a pyramid scheme.

Another pet peeve of mine is pseudoscience, and some of these scams combine that with MLM. Doterra sells oils for medical benefits, although they get around the need to prove their efficacy by using the quack miranda warning. The company doesn't make medical claims about their products, but relies on their "consultants" to do so when marketing them. The same applies to It Works, which sells what amounts to plastic wrap that's infused with snake oil. Ridiculous.
 
Now for a personal anecdote:

I have a good friend who sells cosmetic products for a company known as Beautycounter. Their major marketing strategy is unsubstantiated fear, and the culture of the company is cult-like.

Like many of these companies, Beautycounter employs “consultants” who sell their products directly to consumers, using the (unethical) strategies provided by the company. The prime way that these products are marketed is by convincing buyers that the soaps and cosmetics which you might find at the store are killing you with toxins. Whatever will we do? Beautycounter to the rescue! For a mere $20, you can buy this toxin-free bar of soap!

I will refrain from the use of profanity, but that is bovine excrement.

I’m a very simple guy, and a skeptic. When I was presented with the argument that my 25-cent bar of Ivory soap was deadly, I demanded evidence. The only thing I got in return was passive-aggressiveness and logical fallacies. Some vague reference was made to formaldehyde (Ivory soap contains none). I asked what quantity is contained in my soap, at what quantity and exposure it becomes acutely toxic, and what the magical soap that costs nearly 100 times as much as mine contains. I just ended up getting yelled at.

It seems that part of the Beautycounter experience is unquestioning loyalty to their supreme leader, CEO Gregg Renfrew. This is only part of why I think it’s similar to a cult:
  • Unwavering loyalty to a supreme leader
  • Paying for the privilege of participating
  • Using fear to convince others to pay and to join the ranks
  • Aggressive attacks on any dissenters
 
So, you know, just do the research before sending money to strangers. Find yourself someone with a strong business background who can evaluate an opportunity if you're unsure.
 
Come on Bandito440,
just cloud them even more with: "I can get this bar of soap (organic made) at Aldi."
(hear the yada yada).....
then tell them: Aldi owns Trader Joe's....free and clear....
(takes out industrial ear-plugs, insert and twist correctly in ear)

P.S. they also prey on job lookers. "Great earning potential. Serious inquiries apply only".. nope is another MLM presentation....

They (many/multiple MLMs) are feeding on the boomers health/retirement opportunity and health dieting/supplements craze for the last decade at least. some of them just got with the flow and updated their websites, changed colors, printed new stuff/labels/branding.... and push some of the lower levels to blog about the supreme products....
 
My wife and I were dragged to an "--way" spiel one night mostly because the sponsor was a good cook. I demonstration ensued in which some sort of drain cleaner was shown dissolving a Styrofoam cup. I inquired "what happens to plastic pipe"? Apparently one was not supposed to ask.
 
Originally Posted By: Bandito440
Now for a personal anecdote:

When I was presented with the argument that my 25-cent bar of Ivory soap was deadly, I demanded evidence. The only thing I got in return was passive-aggressiveness and logical fallacies. Some vague reference was made to formaldehyde (Ivory soap contains none). I asked what quantity is contained in my soap, at what quantity and exposure it becomes acutely toxic, and what the magical soap that costs nearly 100 times as much as mine contains. I just ended up getting yelled at.


I'd be skeptical too. But it they can sue J&J or Goldbond for talcum/baby powder causing cancer, then I figure they can sue for most anything, including ivory soap. There doesn't appear to be an end to litigation possibilities. Sad. And to think of all those years I put some baby powder in my sneakers to make them smell better.
 
oilBabe does a jewelry MLM. I do the taxes and know she breaks even or a bit better. But it's not life changing money.

But what it does provide is all sorts of jewelry she can have around and when she tires of it, she sells it on at her costs.

So even if she doesn't make a barrel of cash, it saves me as she once purchased this jewelry from a friend (now her upline) who sells it.

So break-even is good in this case. Making a few grand a year is just icing on the cake.
 
Not all MLM companies are scams. My wife is involved in one (not Beautycounter) and has done quite well. The products sell because they are good products. And it is a good company where you are able to succeed, regardless of your up line. Yes, you make money from the sales of those who sign up under you (and under them and under them) but you only make money if they make money and do not make money just because someone signs up. If no product us sold, no money is made. That is why you have to build and manage your team. It's like being a commissioned outside salesperson who has a sales team that they manage and earn commission on those sales.

Edit: Yes, some are scams/pyramid schemes, some are legitimate opportunities but utilize unscrupulous sales methods/marketing, and there are some that are legitimate opportunities backed by good companies with good products. Just do your homework before getting involved.
 
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Just had a call yesterday from some lady who told me that since I had stayed in one of their resorts in the past I had just won a great trip, all expenses paid of course. She just had to get some information from me first. I asked her to tell me what resort I had stayed at in the past and she hung up on me. Can you believe that.
 
Originally Posted By: Bud
I asked her to tell me what resort I had stayed at in the past and she hung up on me. Can you believe that.


Sandals?
 
While I'm glad that the two stories above didn't end badly, there are 100 that did for each of them. People with a closet full of unsold goods are common.

If it's a hobby and you're okay with breaking even for hours of labor, I hope the participant enjoys it. I doubt anyone but those at the very top makes enough money to consider it a decent hourly rate.

It's different from regular commissioned sales because the pyramid goes all the way up, and people have to pay to join the "team". Nobody is interviewed for their sales expertise; if you have cash, you're in.

To the MLM fans, I challenge you to find data on the respective companies and find out what percentage of participants make money. Be sure the number includes everyone who's signed up and paid the entry fee. Many of these companies will fudge the numbers by citing only current members.

Originally Posted By: SatinSilver
Where are you buying .25 Ivory soap? Please tell me there's not a catch.

Amazon had a lightning deal last year when I scored a ton of it for cheap.
 
Originally Posted By: NMBurb02
Not all MLM companies are scams. My wife is involved in one (not Beautycounter) and has done quite well. The products sell because they are good products. And it is a good company where you are able to succeed, regardless of your up line. Yes, you make money from the sales of those who sign up under you (and under them and under them) but you only make money if they make money and do not make money just because someone signs up. If no product us sold, no money is made. That is why you have to build and manage your team. It's like being a commissioned outside salesperson who has a sales team that they manage and earn commission on those sales.


Yes, that's what you have to keep telling yourself. Products are also sold because people sell it to them. MLMs typically work because the sales person guilts their friends/family into buying and they keep telling themselves these products are great. If they were really that great, it'd just sell by itself direct and you cut out the middleman. That's what MLM is all about, the middleman taking their cut.
 
I just experienced a new scam. Got a call on my cell. Same area code and prefix as mine. Must be local, right? Some woman trying to sell me on some vacation deal. They must be somehow spoofing my cell #.
 
Originally Posted By: Bandito440
To the MLM fans, I challenge you to find data on the respective companies and find out what percentage of participants make money. Be sure the number includes everyone who's signed up and paid the entry fee. Many of these companies will fudge the numbers by citing only current members.

Can I add also what percentage of turnover?
 
Originally Posted By: Bud
Just had a call yesterday from some lady who told me that since I had stayed in one of their resorts in the past I had just won a great trip, all expenses paid of course. She just had to get some information from me first. I asked her to tell me what resort I had stayed at in the past and she hung up on me. Can you believe that.

either tentative to gain your personal info
or
tentative to get you to get to a timeshare presentation.....
 
Originally Posted By: Bandito440
While I'm glad that the two stories above didn't end badly, there are 100 that did for each of them. People with a closet full of unsold goods are common.

I would like to add a BITOG success story:

me and wife got into ***ay, yada yada, entry fee, presentation, conference, starting kit, call friends (nope, no , like ....).
she still likes a couple of the cosmetics (not the full set).
i joined more for the training/people interaction.
we both where not much into salesmanship so after the 3-6 months we kind of got the cold shoulder.
since small kid appeared, no more time.

well Papa (me), got into google search an looked a bit more about what makes this successful. (yay, projected rate of 99% turnover)
but, while searching for some cheaper synthetic oil alternatives, i got over to BITOG...
read something for 3 months,
start my thread with who makes ***ay oil (got chewed in that thread)
then learned how to get good oil on clearance/deals cheaper than ***ay oil and what is good oil ....
 
There's plenty of spoofing going on, in a wide variety of phone numbers and abbreviations. Some of the idiots actually spoof my own phone that I would answer with.

I see it almost daily if I am around. All of our calls go to voice mail first, unless we are absolutely sure we know who it is.
 
Originally Posted By: pandus13
but, while searching for some cheaper synthetic oil alternatives, i got over to BITOG...
read something for 3 months,
start my thread with who makes ***ay oil (got chewed in that thread)
then learned how to get good oil on clearance/deals cheaper than ***ay oil and what is good oil ....


Sounds like Amsoil. I think they get decent reviews, but once you factor in the price, there are cheaper oils out there and if you change it regularly it doesn't matter. The great Autozone Annual clearance is going on now and you never see Amsoil at $2 a quart. And their prices are typically higher than any oil you find on the shelf at Walmart. So the real problem with MLM's is that their prices are too high because most of it ends up with the middleman.
 
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