ZF8 50K Mile Transmission Service

CarbonSteel

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I used Lifeguard 8 since that is what is specified. I bought mine from eBay and there is plenty available.
 
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I used Lifeguard 8 since that is what is specified. I bought mine from eBay and there is plenty available.
Mopar labels their fluid as "8&9-speed ATF" and judging by the color, it is Lifeguard 8.

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ZF's datasheet for Lifeguard 9 states it is suitable for 8-speed and 9-speed transmissions, but the fluid is blue.

Seems like Stellantis is using ZF Lifeguard 8 for both 8 and 9 speed applications.
 

CarbonSteel

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Mopar labels their fluid as "8&9-speed ATF" and judging by the color, it is Lifeguard 8.

View attachment 117258

ZF's datasheet for Lifeguard 9 states it is suitable for 8-speed and 9-speed transmissions, but the fluid is blue.

Seems like Stellantis is using ZF Lifeguard 8 for both 8 and 9 speed applications.
I believe you are 100% correct. I went with Lifeguard 8 fluid versus Mopar 8&9 due to availability and cost.

I also knew I would be doing multiple fluid changes since not all of the old fluid would be replaced in a single dump. Only 1 dealer could do a flush but could not explain how they would not overpressure the system or how they were going to maintain the required temperature range.

Hard pass at that point on a flush so I did 3 fluid dumps.
 
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I do drain and fills at my dealer or pan/filter if someone wants to pay that much more

Being 48 a quart for 8/9 mopar fluid it gets pricey quick. Zf recommended 60k at the atra seminar a few years ago. I can also then read all the numbers on the clutches and get an idea of at least clutch health
 
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I do drain and fills at my dealer or pan/filter if someone wants to pay that much more

Being 48 a quart for 8/9 mopar fluid it gets pricey quick. Zf recommended 60k at the atra seminar a few years ago. I can also then read all the numbers on the clutches and get an idea of at least clutch health
How many quarts comes out with a drain/refill vs. pan/filter? On some transmissions there’s a big difference.
 
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Usually around 7 on the 8 speeds. It’s not an exacting fill process they make it seem so precise but it’s pretty basic when it comes down to it.

They are close on both services the pan holds a bit more but the method of refill isn’t precision like it said so it’s hard to gauge
 

CarbonSteel

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How many quarts comes out with a drain/refill vs. pan/filter? On some transmissions there’s a big difference.
It takes about 5.1 QTs with a drain and filter change. The Wrangler does not have a drain plug in the pan so there is way to only drain unless you mean dump the pan without changing the filter.
 

CarbonSteel

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Being 48 a quart for 8/9 mopar fluid it gets pricey quick. Zf recommended 60k at the atra seminar a few years ago. I can also then read all the numbers on the clutches and get an idea of at least clutch health
I bought ZF Lifeguard 8 fluid that was about $20 per quart.

Where are the numbers you note above?
 
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I bought ZF Lifeguard 8 fluid that was about $20 per quart.

Where are the numbers you note above?

Procedure is described in that article.
 
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I bought ZF Lifeguard 8 fluid that was about $20 per quart.

Where are the numbers you note above?
Current msrp is $34.85/qt from Stellantis. With the typical matrix price structure, $48 is pretty common. Usually matrix for a part at this price level is ~150% of msrp.
 

CarbonSteel

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Current msrp is $34.85/qt from Stellantis. With the typical matrix price structure, $48 is pretty common. Usually matrix for a part at this price level is ~150% of msrp.
No, I was talking about the clutch wear numbers.

On a different note, it was a hard pass on the procedure and the fluid from the dealer. Mopar 8&9 is likely rebadged ZF Lifeguard 8 and so no reason to pay more than 2x the cost. ZF's own documents cross reference both numbers.
 

4WD

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I believe you are 100% correct. I went with Lifeguard 8 fluid versus Mopar 8&9 due to availability and cost.

I also knew I would be doing multiple fluid changes since not all of the old fluid would be replaced in a single dump. Only 1 dealer could do a flush but could not explain how they would not overpressure the system or how they were going to maintain the required temperature range.

Hard pass at that point on a flush so I did 3 fluid dumps.
Did you see a clear space where a B&M drain plug might fit and did the metal pan seem sturdy enough for one ?
 

CarbonSteel

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Did you see a clear space where a B&M drain plug might fit and did the metal pan seem sturdy enough for one ?
There **may** be an area in the deepest part of the pan under the filter provided that it remains as close to flush as possible. The filter is held in place by two studs, but it "floats" on them. You snug the locknuts then back off 1/2 round. This is so the filter can be free to move to center on the inlet nozzle.

The pan itself is relatively thin, but I am pretty confident that you could braze or TIG weld a plug into it--if the welder has some skill.
 

4WD

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There **may** be an area in the deepest part of the pan under the filter provided that it remains as close to flush as possible. The filter is held in place by two studs, but it "floats" on them. You snug the locknuts then back off 1/2 round. This is so the filter can be free to move to center on the inlet nozzle.

The pan itself is relatively thin, but I am pretty confident that you could braze or TIG weld a plug into it--if the welder has some skill.
Ok we have a one man muffler shop and he’s stick welded for a quarter century …
Thanks …
Anyone install a PPE pan ?
 

CarbonSteel

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Ok we have a one man muffler shop and he’s stick welded for a quarter century …
Thanks …
Anyone install a PPE pan ?
I bought one and sold it without installing it. On the 3.6L, you have to do a fair amount of grinding on the pan fins to clear the crossover exhaust, which is lame as $%#, because you are paying for a pan that you have to modify and have recoated (if you bought the coated one). This is not an issue with the 2.0T as it does not have a crossover pipe. PPE should sell two versions of the pan OR not sell one for the 3.6L because they KNOW this is an issue.

The other thing to consider is that it does not use the factory filter which leaves you at the mercy of PPE and if they ever go out of business, you will have no sources for the filter.

EDIT - the other thing to consider is that on a Wrangler, most people are running full skids plates which means the cooling that may be gained from a finned pan is minimal IF any at all since the airflow would be close to zero.
 
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4WD

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I bought one and sold it without installing it. On the 3.6L, you have to do a fair amount of grinding on the pan fins to clear the crossover exhaust, which is lame as $%#, because you are paying for a pan that you have to modify and have recoated (if you bought the coated one). This is not an issue with the 2.0T as it does not have a crossover pipe. PPE should sell two versions of the pan OR not sell one for the 3.6L because they KNOW this is an issue.

The other thing to consider is that it does not use the factory filter which leaves you at the mercy of PPE and if they ever go out of business, you will have no sources for the filter.

EDIT - the other thing to consider is that on a Wrangler, most people are running full skids plates which means the cooling that may be gained from a finned pan is minimal IF any at all since the airflow would be close to zero.
^^^ and right here folks is why we are members ^^^ … Grinding on a new $300-$350 pan is not my thing …
Thanks Bud !
 

CarbonSteel

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Install one and it's like screaming to Stellantis: "Restrict my powertrain warranty!"
Meh---that is less of a concern since they would need to prove the pan caused whatever failure there was. I would not be as worried about that as FCA/Stellantis underfilling the transmission from the factory as they have done on many members transmissions on the Wrangler forum.

For those who will be doing a fluid and filter change, I HIGHLY recommend checking the fluid again after about 50 miles when the air has worked its way out of the lines and the filter. Mine was about 1 pint low after 50 miles and this was after the initial fill, bringing it up to temperature, running it through the gears, checking it again and topping it off while idling in park.

My ZF8 was about 3/4QT low from the factory based upon how much it took to fill it.
 
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