ZDDP in OIl and Older Design Engines???

[fins]

I have a 2005 Jeep with a 4.0 straight six engine.

I read an article that stated the oil companies are taking the ZDDP out of the new formulated oils and that the lack of ZDDP in oils will ruin older style flat tappet engines?

How do I know the ZDDP content of a given oil?
I have been using SuperTech Full Synthetic 10-30.

 

[Quest]

IMHO your Jeep is only 2 yrs old so why worry about ZDDP level?

It's not like you gonna ruined it if you opt for API SL/SM certified oil now?

 

[Blue99]

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How do I know the ZDDP content of a given oil?

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Checkout the UOA forum to view the phos & zinc as listed in PPM. Used oil has some ZDDP depletion, but it is a good ballpark number.

Also, some of the major oil brands will list a phos number on the product data sheet. Keep in mind that GF-4 oils are limited to 800 ppm max. for phosphorus, a key element of ZDDP.

 

[MolaKule]

Look at the VOA's to see the amount of ZDDP as phos and zinc. The zddp is still in there, just at reduced levels.

New and more exotic AW additives will be taking its place.

If in doubt, run a 5W40 HDEO.

I have yet to see any scientifc evidence as to why flat tappet cam are more susceptible to wear than any others.

 

[Quest]

second to what MolaKule just said.

 

[Master ACiD]

lots of overhead cam modern engines have flat tappets. my honda crv comes to mind. they dont have any problems. i dont see why an old fashoned underhead cam engine would be any different.

 

[ProStreetCamaro]

On a stock engine there doesnt seem to be a problem. The problems arise with higher lift, longer duration aftermarket cams. These cams require higher valve spring pressure to keep the valves from floating at higher rpms in which these aftermarket cams are designed to run. These cams also have faster lobe ramps which open and close the valves faster. This also creates more friction than a smaller stock cam because of the steeper lobe angles. These are the cams that are failing due to the reduced zinc and moly in todays newer oils that are formulated for todays newer roller engines. If your really worried about it I would use Delo 400 because it is still loaded with zinc and it also has moly. Delo 400 is a fantastic oil for pretty much all applications.

 

[glenncof]

http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...true#Post838665

Read above thread. Study the testing.

I like the post from the race engine builder.

It's the Break-in. It's the aggressive cams/springs.

 

[pp_rp]

I did'nt here they taking ZDDP out entirely. I read G-5 oils will have 0.05 levels of ZDDP. I also read as long as a ZDDP levels are above 0.03 there is no difference in wear.
Personally with your Jeep I would not worry..

 

[Steve S]

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lots of overhead cam modern engines have flat tappets. my honda crv comes to mind. they dont have any problems. i dont see why an old fashoned underhead cam engine would be any different.

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valve spring pressure is the problem ,ohc and multivalve head setups have lower spring pressure than valve in block engines .Think pushrods and lifters.

 

[mechtech2]

It seems that it's the hot cams that are problematic with the new oils. Some Mfrs. state concerns about proper lubes.

Anyway, I kind of agree with Mola about flat and roller cams. Why wouldn't a roller show wear? There is a tiny diameter pin for the roller, and the loading would be insane on it.

 

[MolaKule]

The 20W50 we formulated for dirt track (Modifieds) racing had a high level of AW additives because of the extremely high loading on those SB racing cams. But zddp was not the only AW additive in it that prevented wear on the cams and bearings.

 

[alanu]

pushrod motors with flat tappets will have alot more weight to control. Seat pressure and full cam lift will require alot more spring pressure compared to a light overhead cam setup.

Alot of issues arising now is materials. I'm into aircooled VW's and my current 11.90-12.00 1/4mile street car uses chevy/manton dual springs with a small cam (jk) 276degrees @.050. I've used scat lifters and they pit regardless of what oil you use. I have aprox 360 pressure at the nose of the cam and 150 at the seat (valve closed) Just think my pushrod is almost double the length compared to many v6 and v8 pushrod engines. My intake valves are heavy stainless 46mm (1.81 inch)

http://members.shaw.ca/aircooled/splat2.jpg

I am now using German Tool steel lifters. These lifters requires NO breakin. I basically started the virgin engine and let it idle. I adjusted the dual 48 IDA's and then I took the car for a test drive. I was letting the new cam and lifters idle for a good 15-20 minutes. In a year or two I can confidentally re-use those same exact lifters with a new cam without resurfacing the face!!! Unbelievable lifters that withstand severe valve float and radius/crown longevity.

There are so many people using "breakin" springs with soft pressure and after breakin they are still getting flat cams. There are people having phenominal success using GM EOS as a zinc supplement.

A 2005 jeep requires no fancy high dose zddp oil IMO. I'm no expert regarding oil but a good quality base with robust add pack will be absolutely fine. Oldschool pushrod motors using solid flat tappets are the guys shaking their knees due to zinc depletion.

In my case I'm confident the tool steel lifters are the ticket for my application. I also have 2 sets of schubek "ceramic" lifters (no longer available) but the street price is 600usd for a set of 8!!! Valve float is not kind to those lifters.