You're gonna love this! 2016 F-150 2.7 Ecoboost

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Originally Posted By: Superflop
Umm if you are just cruising and not under load/acceleration you arent under any significant amount of boost. Your premise is incorrect. Get a scan tool and monitor the map sensor.


Please feel free to explain how cruising along at any steady speed is no load. These engines make boost just off idle. My guess is they run an appreciable amount virtually all the time...
 
If this is your initial change to Mobil 1 then from my experience it's not unusual to show some oil usage. The usage usually decreases after further Mobil 1 oil changes. I've noticed sometimes using different oils can result in oil usage initially no matter what the brand.

Whimsey
 
A neighbor with the edge sport doesn't see anything like this. He checks the oil maybe every 1k miles but has it changed according to the OLM. Drives for work too. This SUV has the 2.7. Not sure if boost numbers or turbos are different. I think the power ratings are slightly different.
 
Originally Posted By: volk06
Originally Posted By: bigj_16
Again, they aren't the same engines. The 2.7's are running a lot of boost down low, and it is a different engine. We have to compare apples to apples.


Agreed

However, they're susceptible to fuel dilution. The 2.7L has a TSB about breaking cylinder walls. I'd be looking for that with the 2.7L.


I have never heard of this. Do you have a link?

The ram Eco diesel does have a problem breaking cylinder walls,

Thanks.
 
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Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: Superflop
Umm if you are just cruising and not under load/acceleration you arent under any significant amount of boost. Your premise is incorrect. Get a scan tool and monitor the map sensor.


Please feel free to explain how cruising along at any steady speed is no load. These engines make boost just off idle. My guess is they run an appreciable amount virtually all the time...
because cruising along in the highway is the least load that vehicle will likely see while moving which means least amount of air fuel needed which then means least "boost". Of course It "can" make good boost down low otherwise it you would have horrible low rpm power. But it isnt always making max boost, deffinitely not while cruising. Which is why i said take a look at your map sensor while driving you will see how the boost comes and goes. If it was always in the boost his fuel mileage would be single digits.

If you were to drive a turbo vehicle and were to accelerate steadily from a stop you will have the most boost right at take off and the psi will steadily drop as the engine rpms catch up with where the throttle input is.
 
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Well put superflop. Yes, they make a lot of boost down low, but the boost isn't an on/off switch, nor is it a set amount of boost per rpm. Flat out, it varies depending on the load. When starting off, there is a ton of boost, and as you ease off the throttle, it goes way down.

Part of why these feel like the cruise so effortlessly on the highway. They can lug a lower RPM than a NA engine but force more boost and power, keeping you cruising along.

Doing heaver towing, my fuel mileage drops back towards the 12+ MPG versus the 20+ i get in freeway driving. Flat out your fuel mileage makes it pretty obvious if you are in boost if you aren't monitoring boost via torque or some other monitor.

In normal, unloaded freeway driving at 75 mph my boost monitored via torque is usually sitting around 2 or 3 psi, varying up or down depending on the load (hills, wind, etc...). Pulling a boat, it sits more around 7-8 psi in flat conditions. Pretty sure I remember seeing it spike over 16 psi at some point, but you aren't going to do that in normal, unloaded freeway cruising. (And to be clear, I'm using unloaded in the frame of not filled up to payload weight or towing nears capacity or both...)
 
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Bro, the added quart in less then 3000 is not normal....I just finished a 700 mile road trip towing a 7000lb travel travel up several 7-8% grades at times turning well over 4000rpm in 2nd and 3rd gear for 160 of those 700 miles and my 2.7 didn't burn a drop. The rest of trip was spent in 4th gear with 5 and 6th gear locked out turning 2500rpms...And you need to wait minimum 15 mins after turning off your engine before checking your oil level...takes time for all the oil to drain back into the pan. There should be a warning sticker on the engine cover next to the fill camp stating to wait 15 mins before checking oil level. Most likely you didn't wait and over filled by a qt.
 
I was watching my fuel mileage the whole time.As soon as I was running above 82-83, mileage started dropping pretty fast.
The issue with all of this, is that we are just all just
speculating.

Here are some things I do know:
Altitude will make a turbo spin faster to make the same pressure.
Low humidity and low humidity/high heat can affect an engines performance markedly for various reasons.
One UOA does not make a trend.
Every engine design behaves differently.
Unless a vehicle is equipped exactly the same as another, and driven exactly the same way, in the same exact conditions, drawing comparisons is not scientific or credible. Correlation does not equal causation.

What we do have here is chance to do some trend analysis, over a period of time, on two similiar, but not the same, vehicles.

However, what happens with these two vehicles, does not necessarily apply to other F-150 2.7 Ecoboosts, but can be a useful tool for indicating some issues. Less so for other Ecoboosts in other vehicles. Probably not at all for your 2004 Toyota Camry.
And believe this. If I don't know what this is yet, it is pretty [censored] certain almost everyone else on here doesn't know either. So, if you have valid hypotheses, please present it. But realize that is what it is, a hypotheses.
By the way, Mr. Shannow, if you want to hypothesize on this fuel dilution, feel free
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: MNgopher
Part of why these feel like the cruise so effortlessly on the highway. They can lug a lower RPM than a NA engine but force more boost and power, keeping you cruising along.

In normal, unloaded freeway driving at 75 mph my boost monitored via torque is usually sitting around 2 or 3 psi, varying up or down depending on the load (hills, wind, etc...). Pulling a boat, it sits more around 7-8 psi in flat conditions. Pretty sure I remember seeing it spike over 16 psi at some point, but you aren't going to do that in normal, unloaded freeway cruising. (And to be clear, I'm using unloaded in the frame of not filled up to payload weight or towing nears capacity or both...)


Just like I stated, Boost under virtually all driving conditions except closed throttle. Thanks for the accuracy...
 
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Originally Posted By: Strawdog
Originally Posted By: volk06
Originally Posted By: bigj_16
Again, they aren't the same engines. The 2.7's are running a lot of boost down low, and it is a different engine. We have to compare apples to apples.


Agreed

However, they're susceptible to fuel dilution. The 2.7L has a TSB about breaking cylinder walls. I'd be looking for that with the 2.7L.


I have never heard of this. Do you have a link?

The ram Eco diesel does have a problem breaking cylinder walls,

Thanks.


I might have miss spoke thinking of long block replacements but heres the TSB I was talking about.

Ford TSB 17-0007
Here is a summary of the text from the TSB:
FORD:
2016 F-150
ISSUE
Some 2016 F-150 vehicles equipped with a 2.7L gasoline turbocharged direct injection (GTDI) engine and built on 1-
Apr-2016 and through 1-Oct-2016 may exhibit white or blue smoke from the exhaust, rough idle in neutral or park at
normal operating temperature or after a hot restart. The vehicle may also exhibit diagnostic trouble code (DTC) P0300,
P0301, P0302, P0303, P0304, P0305, P0306, P0316, P0524 and/or P06DD with the excessive oil consumption. Oil
consumption may be 1 Liter (1 quart) in less than 4,800 km (3,000 miles).
ACTION
Follow the Service Procedure steps to correct the condition.
SERVICE PROCEDURE
1. Connect the Ford Integrated Diagnostic System (IDS) service tool or equivalent scan tool to the data link connector
(DLC). Check for DTC P0524 and/or P06DD with any misfire codes stored in the powertrain control module (PCM)
memory?
a. Yes - replace the engine long block assembly. Refer to Workshop Manual (WSM), Section 303-01.
b. No - replace the cylinder heads. Refer to WSM, Section 303-01.
 
Originally Posted By: volk06
Originally Posted By: Strawdog
Originally Posted By: volk06
Originally Posted By: bigj_16
Again, they aren't the same engines. The 2.7's are running a lot of boost down low, and it is a different engine. We have to compare apples to apples.


Agreed

However, they're susceptible to fuel dilution. The 2.7L has a TSB about breaking cylinder walls. I'd be looking for that with the 2.7L.


I have never heard of this. Do you have a link?

The ram Eco diesel does have a problem breaking cylinder walls,

Thanks.


I might have miss spoke thinking of long block replacements but heres the TSB I was talking about.

Ford TSB 17-0007
Here is a summary of the text from the TSB:
FORD:
2016 F-150
ISSUE
Some 2016 F-150 vehicles equipped with a 2.7L gasoline turbocharged direct injection (GTDI) engine and built on 1-
Apr-2016 and through 1-Oct-2016 may exhibit white or blue smoke from the exhaust, rough idle in neutral or park at
normal operating temperature or after a hot restart. The vehicle may also exhibit diagnostic trouble code (DTC) P0300,
P0301, P0302, P0303, P0304, P0305, P0306, P0316, P0524 and/or P06DD with the excessive oil consumption. Oil
consumption may be 1 Liter (1 quart) in less than 4,800 km (3,000 miles).
ACTION
Follow the Service Procedure steps to correct the condition.
SERVICE PROCEDURE
1. Connect the Ford Integrated Diagnostic System (IDS) service tool or equivalent scan tool to the data link connector
(DLC). Check for DTC P0524 and/or P06DD with any misfire codes stored in the powertrain control module (PCM)
memory?
a. Yes - replace the engine long block assembly. Refer to Workshop Manual (WSM), Section 303-01.
b. No - replace the cylinder heads. Refer to WSM, Section 303-01.

This is what I have translated out of this TSB and the hearsay
smile.gif
from the F-150 Forum.

I think the guides are bad. Why? Don't know. Bad material. Incorrect installation. Inadequate design. Driving conditions. Inadequate oil. Who knows?

At some point, the guides start letting a lot of oil by, enough where the sump is depleted in 200-300 miles,(Why you wouldn't notice this coming out the exhaust is beyond me, but hey...). At that point, the engine blows.
If the problem is caught before the major sump depletion, then the heads are replaced, which is the source of the issue. If the sump depletion happens, the engine is damaged, and the long block is replaced.
This may not be exactly accurate, but I think it is in the ballpark. I really have a lot of questions about this whole thing, that I will probably never get answered.
 
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And there are tons of them out there. A TSB does not always indicate the quantity of issues, just that the mfgr is aware of them. As stated above, the data is very difficult to get as mfgrs do not release warranty details willingly.

So I am sure most 2.7 owners are blissfully enjoying their vehicle just like my pilot buddy with his 2017 F-150. It's an amazingly powerful engine. But it is considerably higher stressed than almost any N/A engine, so Ford better get it right.

Far less margin for any errors in production...
 
Originally Posted By: bigj_16
Some
smile.gif
of you guys will be happy to know with 700 miles on the new oil, not a lick of oil used.


What oil are you using this go-around? Some engines just "don't like" certain oils for some reason. Maybe you found the perfect match?
 
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: bigj_16
Some
smile.gif
of you guys will be happy to know with 700 miles on the new oil, not a lick of oil used.


What oil are you using this go-around? Some engines just "don't like" certain oils for some reason. Maybe you found the perfect match?
Same oil. M1 5W-30 EP.
 
I have owned 4 turbo petrol vehicles until now and can tell from experience that a turbocharged engine with a compression ratio of 10:1 will definitely not need to boost to maintain 85mph unless on a serious incline and will happily cruise at 85mph in vacuum.
 
Originally Posted By: Floydian
I have owned 4 turbo petrol vehicles until now and can tell from experience that a turbocharged engine with a compression ratio of 10:1 will definitely not need to boost to maintain 85mph unless on a serious incline and will happily cruise at 85mph in vacuum.


But were they full size pickups? Far from the most aerodynamic vehicles. Usually heavier than the average car, too.

Vast differences in design and programming mean your experience may not be as relevant here as you think...
 
Originally Posted By: bigj_16
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: bigj_16
Some
smile.gif
of you guys will be happy to know with 700 miles on the new oil, not a lick of oil used.


What oil are you using this go-around? Some engines just "don't like" certain oils for some reason. Maybe you found the perfect match?
Same oil. M1 5W-30 EP.


My experience with Mobil 1 is when it's used for the first time in my 4 non oil using vehicles is it will use some oil but with subsequent oil change with Mobil 1 the oil usage disappears. Hopefully that's what happened to yours. I just went through the same thing with our 2.3 EcoBoost Explorer. With the first run of Mobil 1 it used a 1/2 qt in 7,000 miles. And this OCI was mainly at high speeds(75-85 mph) this past summer. It's not a lot but I'm not use to any of our Fords using any measurable amount of oil in even 9,000 mil OCI's.

Whimsey
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: Floydian
I have owned 4 turbo petrol vehicles until now and can tell from experience that a turbocharged engine with a compression ratio of 10:1 will definitely not need to boost to maintain 85mph unless on a serious incline and will happily cruise at 85mph in vacuum.


But were they full size pickups? Far from the most aerodynamic vehicles. Usually heavier than the average car, too.

Vast differences in design and programming mean your experience may not be as relevant here as you think...
And those are just some of the differences. I agree, Steve.
 
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