Your Opinion of best used Pick Up for Towing

[ls1mike]

Thanks for all the information on the thread. I'm the friend he's asking for. Not sure it will help but what we have is a 4 star 2+1 gooseneck aluminum trailer which is just shy of 6k pounds according to the manufacturer. I figure two horses, water, food & camping supplies gets us to around 10k.

What we're looking for is a 3/4 ton or 1 ton, SRW, 4x4, 8' bed, extended or crew cab. Originally we had been thinking diesel for the mileage while towing, power if we start traveling farther through actual hills/mountains and longevity in general (currently using a '95 F250 extended cab, 8' bed, 7.3 diesel, with a manual transmission). What little we found out researching has us leaning towards 3.73 axle ratio.

I'm more open to a newer gas option than my wife but concerned about power and fuel consumption. I remember towing an older steel trailer with a gas pickup and getting about 6 mpg on basically flat land. But as repeatedly pointed out, the $9-10k premium for a diesel buys a lot of gas.

Wife leans towards Ford, I lean towards GMC/Chevy but we're mostly agnostic and want the least headache to do what we want. Not concerned about the latest bluetooth, navigation, premium sound, etc.

10K should be pretty easy with a Gas 3/4 ton or up. You want my truck almost exactly. 4x4, Crew Cab, Long bed. I paid 36,500 for my 2017 SRW 3500HD gasser with 27,000 miles on it in June of 2019. Same truck goes for over 40,000 right now. It will tow much better than your 1995. I believe your truck is 215 to 225 HP and 425 FT/LBS of torque. The 2017 6.0 Gasser is 360 HP and 380FT/LBS of torque. You are just going to get things done faster in a modern 3/4 ton and up gasser (unless of course your 7.3 has modifications). MPGs will be worse, and you have to get used to seeing 4500 to 5000 RPM sometimes but it is fine for those engines. I imagine you run close to redline on your 7.3 from time to time. I average about 8 to 9 mpg towing 8000lbs. That includes the bigger passes out west.

I have to ask why 3.73s? You won't take enough of mileage hit with 4.10s to worry about it and in my truck 65 is still under 2000 RPM in 6th. You will want 4.10s in a gasser at that weight.

The Fords have a 4.30 rear end. The guy I camp with has a 2014 6.2 and tows right at 10,000lbs with it all the places I go. He just rolled 110,000 miles. He did have to replace a rocker arm early on and both exhaust manifolds (heads broke off the bolts and cracked them), but it is a solid truck and it has 4.30 gears.

This is my second GM 6.0 truck and they have been bullet proof and I use them mostly for towing. One thing they are known for is breaking exhaust manifold bolts. As soon I picked my truck up I replaced all the exhaust manifold fasteners with ARP ones. That will fix that problem. Cost 34 bucks and took about an hour. My old 02 and my 2017.

 

[mattd]

To meet all your “requirements”, especially fuel mileage and hill performance, I’d opt for a diesel.

 

[UncleDave]

The tow ratings of trucks are published for a reason and engineers came up with the numbers. So telling someone they need an 18k tow rated truck to pull a 10K load is mostly fear talking. Getting more capacity than you need the truck will ride like a brick when unloaded and narrow down your choices needlessly. The newer diesels are a lot more expensive to buy and maintain. Figure out the load you will be pulling and buy enough to tow it no need to go overboard.

If it isnt a rated weight by a third party - the marketing department came up with it.
Like they did for years It was amazing how the truck that was introduced later always had the highest rating.

J2807 is the first standardized test up to 14K in 2013. The Davis Dam test route is a normal one for me, or was for the decades I lived in so cal.

I agree no one needs a 3/4T to tow a coleman pop up, but one cannot not trust manufacturers claims alone.

SAE J2807 Tow Tests

Here is some helpful info explaining how SAE J2807 tow tests are performed

fifthwheelst.com

 

[Malo83]

Dependable, cheap.

 

[Kawiguy454]

If it isnt a rated weight by a third party - the marketing department came up with it.
Like they did for years It was amazing how the truck that was introduced later always had the highest rating.

J2807 is the first standardized test up to 14K in 2013. The Davis Dam test route is a normal one for me, or was for the decades I lived in so cal.

I agree no one needs a 3/4T to tow a coleman pop up, but one cannot not trust manufacturers claims alone.

SAE J2807 Tow Tests

Here is some helpful info explaining how SAE J2807 tow tests are performed

fifthwheelst.com

I actually had an Uncle Dave growing up . The differential in the modern 16+ max tow Chevy 1500 is the larger same like the HD. Adding airbags and swaybars at minimal cost gets you added stability and additional 600# load bearing. The older 6.0 gasser does not even hold a candle to the 6.2. DI at 465hp and 480 tq and routinely gets better mpg. The same 8 speed trans as HD. Point is that the newer model with few additions is literally the same as a gas 2500 with better engine. GM has all the right stuff in the Max Tow pkg and when unhitched drives plush If youre going to do any amount of unloaded driving. If you haven't driven a 1500 with max tow pkg i would say test drive one you may be surprised.

 

[AZjeff]

Everything I read says the 6.2 Ecotec3 is 420 hp & 460 lb/ft torque for all years. Is your chipped? My 2021 6.6 gas HD has the tried and true 6 spd not an 8 spd and the 1500 Max Trailer package build on Chevy website shows the 10 speed.

Curious what year, configuration and trim level is your truck? I looked hard at a 1500 with the Max Trailer pkg but with the idea that a bigger trailer is down the road went with the HD truck.

 

[ls1mike]

Everything I read says the 6.2 Ecotec3 is 420 hp & 460 lb/ft torque for all years. Is your chipped? My 2021 6.6 gas HD has the tried and true 6 spd not an 8 spd and the 1500 Max Trailer package build on Chevy website shows the 10 speed.

Curious what year, configuration and trim level is your truck? I looked hard at a 1500 with the Max Trailer pkg but with the idea that a bigger trailer is down the road went with the HD truck.

I agree, while it has plenty of power it is still a half ton. No full floating axles, no HD frame, no HD brakes, No HD suspension, 3.42 gears. with a 9.76-inch rear axle. The HD trucks have a 11.5-inch rear axle and a 4.10 or 3.73 gear, larger transmission cooler, Max tow 1/2-ton Payload is 2020lbs, my truck's payload is 4074lbs.

No 1/2 ton has the 6L90E 6 speed which is currently used in the previous generation HD and the current generation HD.

Towing is not just about power; it is about recoverability and duty cycle. I am not saying you can't do it with a 1/2 ton, it does not hurt to be over trucked when you are towing moving payload.

The Max Tow Silverado is a nice truck and does lots of things well, but you are pushing a lot of air with a horse trailer, and no half ton would be on list my list for towing that type of trailer. I am not sure I would even consider an HD gas truck for anything over 10,000lbs if you are towing often. Just my take after having a travel trailer for the past 16 years and towing all over the passes out here on the west coast.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Regarding the issue of having 4.11 gears, you can certainly get by with 3.73 gears and manually holding a 6 speed transmission in about 4th gear. However, in the long term those gear teeth would see more loading than on a 4.11 set. I’ve towed 10,000 lbs with 3.73 gears without problems. Less than 5% of my miles were towing miles, so I couldn’t make myself order the 4.11’s.

 

[bleve]

10K should be pretty easy with a Gas 3/4 ton or up. You want my truck almost exactly. 4x4, Crew Cab, Long bed. I paid 36,500 for my 2017 SRW 3500HD gasser with 27,000 miles on it in June of 2019. Same truck goes for over 40,000 right now. It will tow much better than your 1995. I believe your truck is 215 to 225 HP and 425 FT/LBS of torque. The 2017 6.0 Gasser is 360 HP and 380FT/LBS of torque. You are just going to get things done faster in a modern 3/4 ton and up gasser (unless of course your 7.3 has modifications). MPGs will be worse, and you have to get used to seeing 4500 to 5000 RPM sometimes but it is fine for those engines. I imagine you run close to redline on your 7.3 from time to time. I average about 8 to 9 mpg towing 8000lbs. That includes the bigger passes out west.

I have to ask why 3.73s? You won't take enough of mileage hit with 4.10s to worry about it and in my truck 65 is still under 2000 RPM in 6th. You will want 4.10s in a gasser at that weight.

The Fords have a 4.30 rear end. The guy I camp with has a 2014 6.2 and tows right at 10,000lbs with it all the places I go. He just rolled 110,000 miles. He did have to replace a rocker arm early on and both exhaust manifolds (heads broke off the bolts and cracked them), but it is a solid truck and it has 4.30 gears.

This is my second GM 6.0 truck and they have been bullet proof and I use them mostly for towing. One thing they are known for is breaking exhaust manifold bolts. As soon I picked my truck up I replaced all the exhaust manifold fasteners with ARP ones. That will fix that problem. Cost 34 bucks and took about an hour. My old 02 and my 2017.

View attachment 80320

3.73 came mostly from researching diesels, seemed the best option for mileage and power for towing and normal driving. We use trucks as trucks so hauling stuff in the bed as well as towing.

 

[bleve]

Regarding the issue of having 4.11 gears, you can certainly get by with 3.73 gears and manually holding a 6 speed transmission in about 4th gear. However, in the long term those gear teeth would see more loading than on a 4.11 set. I’ve towed 10,000 lbs with 3.73 gears without problems. Less than 5% of my miles were towing miles, so I couldn’t make myself order the 4.11’s.

I figure we'll do more than 5% towing but it's certainly not the only thing we use it for. Just trying to figure out my best choice and don't claim to be mechanically inclined.

 

[ls1mike]

3.73 came mostly from researching diesels, seemed the best option for mileage and power for towing and normal driving. We use trucks as trucks so hauling stuff in the bed as well as towing.

Got it. Diesels have the torque to make up for not having. 4.30s/4.10s

 

[AZjeff]

Got it. Diesels have the torque to make up for not having. 4.30s/4.10s

With the new 6.6 gas the only choice is 3.73s. Luckily it's almost as powerful as the mighty 6.2

 

[ls1mike]

With the new 6.6 gas the only choice is 3.73s. Luckily it's almost as powerful as the mighty 6.2

Yeah I did see that. I wish the offered a 4.10, the Ford 7.3 can be had a 4.30.

 

[cpayne5]

With the new 6.6 gas the only choice is 3.73s. Luckily it's almost as powerful as the mighty 6.2

Yeah, I think the Duramax only comes with 3.42s now, too.

Too bad 4.10s are no longer an option with the gas 6.6.

 

[wpod]

From a pure fiduciary perspective - you can buy a lot of gas with that extra $10k. Unless you explicitly need the capacity of the diesel, a gasser is almost always less expensive. “Blah blah my residual” - residuals are pretty close given the difference in initial purchase price.

When I sold our 2002 with the 7.3 Powerstroke engine the Diesels initial cost of around $4,000.00 was recouped at the sale . But the initial and maintenance cost of the new Diesels was a no go. Honestly there won't be enough miles put on the F350 to justify the cost , power or potential fuel savings. Honestly I hate V6 or 8 diesels [ Detroit 2 strokes or the Cummins VT 903s since back in the day of driving Freight trucks during 1970and 80s to make extra $$$]

 

[bleve]

When I sold our 2002 with the 7.3 Powerstroke engine the Diesels initial cost of around $4,000.00 was recouped at the sale . But the initial and maintenance cost of the new Diesels was a no go. Honestly there won't be enough miles put on the F350 to justify the cost , power or potential fuel savings. Honestly I hate V6 or 8 diesels [ Detroit 2 strokes or the Cummins VT 903s since back in the day of driving Freight trucks during 1970and 80s to make extra $$$]

We generally keep our vehicles until run into the ground - still have two '95 pickups (one gas, one diesel, both 3/4 tons). Last car was a Subaru Forrester that the engine blew up at 351k miles.

 

[spasm3]

Avalanche 1/2 ton replaced with Ram 3/4 ton. I will never look back. So much better.

Loaded with about 1300lbs of tile and mortar. Still sits level.

 

[Warwagon]

We generally keep our vehicles until run into the ground - still have two '95 pickups (one gas, one diesel, both 3/4 tons). Last car was a Subaru Forrester that the engine blew up at 351k miles.

Can this purchase wait? Fuel prices may have the "value" of big vehicles coming down combined with supply shortages easing up.

If not buy a new one at the end of December as it's year end blowout for the numbers. Used is crazy for prices so you are better off new. New also has Lemon Law protection used may not have.

The Standard Cab suggestion and other changes from "What everyone wants": Short Bed, SRW, Diesel, Crew Cab leather, all options... All make a difference in demand. Gas engine alone should have some pickups the dealers want gone. Long Bed is also not as popular. Work truck trim Esp. if the dealer is advertising as stripped down model as their low price vehicle to get you on the lot. Seriously maybe buy that one.

Myself I have a Tradesman (It's just a pickup after all) RAM 3500 HO Cummins with the Aisin only because I don't want to listen to a gas engine wound out for miles on the 6-18% grades we have around here that go for miles. Wound up to 5000 RPM for miles the A/C compressor kicking on and off is one of many things that don't have good odds of making it. There is no "Economy" left in a Diesel. TCO: Oil changes that are 3 gal, two fuel filters around $100 each you change every 20K miles or less, 30K trans oil changes... Unloaded the gas engine comes close to the 18 MPG I get.

For the same money I could have gotten a loaded leather gas engine pickup.

The MSRP window sticker on a 1992 reg cab 6.5TD 3/4 ton pickup was around $14,000.00. Now that's just the Diesel option cost ... noting the DPF alone costs thousands.

The Diesel emissions systems are now about as reliable as they are going to get. The EPA allowing the use of DEF eliminated a lot of the past problems with choke to death on their own soot for NOx control via EGR. Sadly Beancounters and arrogant Bosch don't get it about the glitterbomb CP4.

 

[Badgerstate]

My friend wanted this phrased differently as he is now considering gas as an option. He would be towing about a 10,000 pound horse trailer with 2-3 horses. Looking at Mpg, Performance in hills, overall truck quality.
Probably looking at 2010-2018 range.

What say you experts?

I wouldnt buy anything smaller than a 3/4 ton. Any smaller than that and it just doesnt have a frame that is strong enough.

 

[meep]

I towed 6000 with an older half ton rated for 6900. It was fine to 55 mph then was white-knuckle beyond that. If I was towing 10k, i would want a 3/4. 1/2 ton suspension just isn’t suited for it.

i will say that the ecoboost motors have cured my want for a diesel. mine is just the 2.7, but it has plenty of power, is well-behaved, and makes gobs of torque down low. It doesn’t have to spin at high revs to make power.

still, for 10k pounds, I’m not sure even a 3.5 gasser with tow and whatever other auxiliary packages could sway me to use a 1/2 ton. Our TT is probably around 4K pounds now, though it has the same frontal area of our previous, larger unit.