You don't know more than the oil engineers....Huh?

[Phishin]

I hear this alot too....when people make up their own mixes of oil to run in their cars and truck. Or when people talk about adding MoS2 or LubeGard Bio Tech moly to thier oils....or anything else, like MMO or Kreen.

"Why do you mess with your oil, just run straight oil. That's the best. Don't try to outsmart the oil engineers at the big oil companies." .... I think this kind of statement is close minded.

Oil companies make a product to sell. They have a specific market they are approaching when they make any specific oil type. Oil companies do NOT make the bst oil they can. AT BEST, they are making the best oil they can to make a reasonable profit in any given market. Most of the time, they are making an oil to make the highest profits that meet a given spec(s) for that particular sector of the marketplace.

If Amsoil, M1, Schaeffer's, Redline, etc.....made THEE best 0w20 they could or the best 0W40 they could, with the BEST base stock, the best additives, etc......it would cost more than $30/quart.

So, why don't all you "know knowing, trust the oil company" zombies around here on BITOG take a break and find a better answer. Because "you don't know better than the oil engineers" is an invalid response.

Absolutely, they know more about lubrication than anyone else does, but the companies that employ these guys, aren't making the best oils they can. Oil companies do NOT give a darn about your car or truck. All companies exist for one reason...to make money.

Most make good products, but they can all be improved. And it's our choice as consumers to improve the products we buy, even right out of the box.

 

[AlienBug]

Are you basing any of these statements on anything?

 

[A_Harman]

No, I think he's just Phishin'.

 

[mpvue]

wow, this is a stupid thread. glad to be a part of it.

 

[46Harry]

This thread should get interesting.

 

[racin4ds]

I agree 100%!

You can always make something better! Thats just what we do as car nuts and oil gurus or whatever else you wanna call us.

Ford sells one awesome new Mustang but is it the best it can be when you buy it? No! Add real exhaust and a good intake and they always pick up more power! Nothing you buy that is commercial is going to be optimum, businesses/companies only do what they have to do to meet the minimum requirements of a given criteria.

 

[Phishin]

Why is it a stupid thread? Yea, I'm basing my thread on something....basic economics and business practices.

How can anyone seriously say that oil companies make the best product and shouldn't be adjusted, added to, etc....because "those guys know what's best."

I agree, they do. But the oil companies aren't making the best oils they can. So, why shouldn't we take a good oil, and add a big of Redline break in for the zinc....and maybe a half bottle of Lubro-Moly or LubeGard BioTech to up the Moly?

What's wrong with the cutting M1 Racing 0w50 with 0w20 AFE to make a good oil package? Why bash people for using their brains?

 

[NateDN10]

I'll buy part of your argument - that oil manufacturers aim to make a reasonably high-quality product while still meeting price point & profit margin.

However, there are also manufacturers that make no-holds-barred, crazy oil, and sell it for $10/qt. If you want that, buy that, rather than adding unproven additives to cheap oil.

OR - here's a great idea - add the additives and do UOAs over the course of many miles to prove that your additive of choice is actually making your oil better!

Without scientific evidence, you'll never really know!

This is America, though, and I'll support your right to fill your crankcase with corn syrup if that's what you want to do.

 

[daves66nova]

I agree.The stock holders have to be pleased.Make the max profit out of something.Bottom line is MAKE MONEY and as much as possible.

 

[ottotheclown]

I notice alot of new members and that is good. However my advise to them is to wait and see what this is about. Each regular,and you will see them over time, has something to say and though you might not agree it is worth reading . The forums that are available can blow your mind at times. This takes time. SNIPING IS EASY ON THE INTERNET YOU DO NOT RISK MUCH.Give it time, yes the oil companies do not think of you when they make the best for the least that is true in everything made. Keep it simple at first. IMHO

 

[Indydriver]

I love these threads that bash manufacturers who are only in business to cheat their customers with inferior products just to make a nickel. Hogwash. Oil, like most manufacturing businesses, is capital intensive with slim profit margins. Every product is a design compromise so that it can appeal (and perform successfully) in a wide range of applications, climates and operational routines. Today's retail motor oils are better than ever and perform remarkably well for a long time in varying conditions. For shade tree mechanics like the OP, who really knows absolutely nothing about oil, its origins, its composition, its refinement, its processing into base stocks, its combination with the right quantity and quality of additives, its QC and testing, packaging, marketing and delivery to the retail market, to claim he can somehow know better is the height of absurdity and ego-driven hypocrisy.

 

[demarpaint]

I notice a change in formulations, and in many cases to cheaper alternatives. You see less moly and more of a cheaper substitute in its place, do you think they are doing this to make the product better? At the end of the day it's all about profit. Do we know better than the chemists that formulated the oil? Nope, but I do know if I have an engine to clean up, adding something like Kreen to the oil is going to do a faster better job than any oil by itself on the market. Yes I said any oil on the market. There are some additives that can improve an oils cleaning ability as well as its ability to protect an engine. Ask anyone who owns a high performance engine with a flat tappet cam who doesn't want to run racing oil, or some other high priced specialty oil if he wants to boost ZDDP a bit? JMO

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: Phishin
I hear this alot too....when people make up their own mixes of oil to run in their cars and truck. Or when people talk about adding MoS2 or LubeGard Bio Tech moly to thier oils....or anything else, like MMO or Kreen.

"Why do you mess with your oil, just run straight oil. That's the best. Don't try to outsmart the oil engineers at the big oil companies." .... I think this kind of statement is close minded.

Oil companies make a product to sell. They have a specific market they are approaching when they make any specific oil type. Oil companies do NOT make the bst oil they can. AT BEST, they are making the best oil they can to make a reasonable profit in any given market. Most of the time, they are making an oil to make the highest profits that meet a given spec(s) for that particular sector of the marketplace.

If Amsoil, M1, Schaeffer's, Redline, etc.....made THEE best 0w20 they could or the best 0W40 they could, with the BEST base stock, the best additives, etc......it would cost more than $30/quart.

So, why don't all you "know knowing, trust the oil company" zombies around here on BITOG take a break and find a better answer. Because "you don't know better than the oil engineers" is an invalid response.

Absolutely, they know more about lubrication than anyone else does, but the companies that employ these guys, aren't making the best oils they can. Oil companies do NOT give a darn about your car or truck. All companies exist for one reason...to make money.

Most make good products, but they can all be improved. And it's our choice as consumers to improve the products we buy, even right out of the box.



You make a ton of assertions, including one that calls many BITOGers "Zombies", but you back it up with nothing.

To quote your other thread, in which you challenge a BITOGers assertion "...If so, post me a pic or give me a link please. I'm just really curious."

I am waiting on you to meet the standard that you have demanded of others...

 

[ottotheclown]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I notice a change in formulations, and in many cases to cheaper alternatives. You see less moly and more of a cheaper substitute in its place, do you think they are doing this to make the product better? At the end of the day it's all about profit. Do we know better than the chemists that formulated the oil? Nope, but I do know if I have an engine to clean up, adding something like Kreen to the oil is going to do a faster better job than any oil by itself on the market. Yes I said any oil on the market. There are some additives that can improve an oils cleaning ability as well as its ability to protect an engine. Ask anyone who owns a high performance engine with a flat tappet cam who doesn't want to run racing oil, or some other high priced specialty oil if he wants to boost ZDDP a bit? JMO

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: Phishin
So, why don't all you "know knowing, trust the oil company" zombies around here on BITOG take a break and find a better answer. Because "you don't know better than the oil engineers" is an invalid response.


You've been on here for a solid 3 months now. Consider the fact that maybe some of the so-called zombies have been around here for close to a decade. Given some more time and context, you may begin to see the other side of the discussion.

 

[GMorg]

The argument that companies make each product the best that is possible is not rational. I don't think that any rational member here would make that argument. And, everything can be made better. Companies may make the best product that they can for a given price point, but even that is optimistic.

However, the formulators do take the time to make a balanced product, that meets objective specifications, including ingredients that are not visible in VOAs. Some people here suggest that unless you know ALL of the components of the finished product, that you are just as likely to reduce the performance of the oil than you are to increase the performance of the oil by adding additional chemistry to a finished, tested product. Few of the components of a finished oil work in isolation. They interact.

If you think that you KNOW which OTC additives will improve a fully formulated oil, you should be able to discuss the impact of the additive on the rest of the package - a package that is not publicly known. Try whatever you want, but if you think that you know more about a proprietary product than the formulator, I suggest that you consider thinking about it just a little longer.

 

[Phishin]

Originally Posted By: Astro14

I am waiting on you to meet the standard that you have demanded of others...


Don't worry. It's coming. Gotta put the miles on her first. Then more pics. Promise.

I guess what I'm saying is, I think it's a good habit to recommend products to people from first hand experience. And from first hand experience, I mean, you had a problem, you used Product X, and you can clearly tell there is an improvement.

With a dirty engine, that's VISUAL. There are a lot of people on here who ask questions....Noobs like me.....and I get a ton of recommendations and I know that almost all of them come from no firsthand experience. It's just what they read on here and they believe it to be true.

If I EVER tell anyone to use Kreen, it's because I can show them before and after pics on my phone of what it did for me.

If I EVER recommend MoS2 to any one, it's because I could document less wear with UOA's, or increased gas milage, or have proof of how much quiter and smoother my engine is running.

But instead, there is just a lot of opinions. Which is fine. And you are right, that is what a forum is all about. But when someone comes to this forum and ask for a possible solution to a problem, I think it's absurd for people to tell me how to fix my problem based purely on heresy. But it's your right to do so.

And what's even MORE amazing is.....when I get 20 people giving me the same answer to my problem, and I can't find ANYTHING here or on the ENTIRE internet showing that what people are claiming is true, that is a problem I think. Or maybe it's just show how easy and rampant it is to get the sheep to mill in the same direction over an internet thread.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Phishin
Why is it a stupid thread? Yea, I'm basing my thread on something....basic economics and business practices.

How can anyone seriously say that oil companies make the best product and shouldn't be adjusted, added to, etc....because "those guys know what's best."

I agree, they do. But the oil companies aren't making the best oils they can. So, why shouldn't we take a good oil, and add a big of Redline break in for the zinc....and maybe a half bottle of Lubro-Moly or LubeGard BioTech to up the Moly?

What's wrong with the cutting M1 Racing 0w50 with 0w20 AFE to make a good oil package? Why bash people for using their brains?


The products you are speaking of adding to the oil to make it "better", are they not produced to make a profit as well? So doesn't the same "logic" then apply that then these additives would need to be "made better" as well?

How far down the rabbit hole do you want to go here.........

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Indydriver
I love these threads that bash manufacturers who are only in business to cheat their customers with inferior products just to make a nickel. Hogwash. Oil, like most manufacturing businesses, is capital intensive with slim profit margins. Every product is a design compromise so that it can appeal (and perform successfully) in a wide range of applications, climates and operational routines. Today's retail motor oils are better than ever and perform remarkably well for a long time in varying conditions. For shade tree mechanics like the OP, who really knows absolutely nothing about oil, its origins, its composition, its refinement, its processing into base stocks, its combination with the right quantity and quality of additives, its QC and testing, packaging, marketing and delivery to the retail market, to claim he can somehow know better is the height of absurdity and ego-driven hypocrisy.



But come on, we cant have any of that fake synthetic out there. Its all just the manufacturers ripping us off with a fake product!

 

[mpvue]

the vast majority of cars out there are run on whatever oil the oil change place puts in there. if off-the-shelf oil was so bad, cars would be blowing engines all over the place.
the idea that some dude in his garage can mix and match some different oils based on emotion and what feels right and come up with something superior is ludicrous.