I'm using Mityvac to vacuum the oil through dipstick tube, that way I never had/have problem with drain plugs.
Wrench or Ratchet For Oil Change?
- Thread starter The Critic
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I used only a closed end 17mm for years on the Hondas.
I now use a ratchet, because its easier.
Until I bought Rhino Ramps over the summer, I used a piece of 2"X8" under the driver's side front wheel to get the cars up high enough that I could wriggle under the Hondas to get to their oil filters, or to even reach the drain plug on the BMW, which has its engine located well back.
Consequently, the swing required with a wrench was not as convenient as using a ratchet.
The Hondas, the BMW and the Subie all have 17mm drain plug heads, although the Subie's actual plug is the largest, while the BMW's is the smallest.
I now use a ratchet, because its easier.
Until I bought Rhino Ramps over the summer, I used a piece of 2"X8" under the driver's side front wheel to get the cars up high enough that I could wriggle under the Hondas to get to their oil filters, or to even reach the drain plug on the BMW, which has its engine located well back.
Consequently, the swing required with a wrench was not as convenient as using a ratchet.
The Hondas, the BMW and the Subie all have 17mm drain plug heads, although the Subie's actual plug is the largest, while the BMW's is the smallest.
I only use a ratchett to remove/install the oil drain plug.
Only an idiot would tighten the drain plug enough to strip it.
Having said that, this idiot has TWICE failed to tighten oil FILTERS enough to prevent leakage.
I'll shut-up now....
Only an idiot would tighten the drain plug enough to strip it.
Having said that, this idiot has TWICE failed to tighten oil FILTERS enough to prevent leakage.
I'll shut-up now....
Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
Originally Posted By: AWDfreak
I will never use a ratchet to loosen/tighten a drain plug again.
I ruined my dad's decade old ratchet set that way. I was trying to loosen the (overtightened) drain plug and no matter how hard I tried, it wouldn't loosen. Then, as I'm hammering at the ratchet to loosen it, I notice the ratchet moves in the direction I don't want it to... I broke the ratchet.
Those aren't reasons not to use ratchets on drain plugs. I think there are different, but related, takeaways from that experience:
1/ Don't overtighten anything, drain plugs especially
2/ Don't hammer on ratchets, regardless of what kind of fastener you're loosening.
1) dealership did the previous oil change, so no oil changes from dealer
2) good point
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Never hammer on a wrench or ratchet, it only asks for trouble. Get a breaker bar or an extension pipe.
The only thing that you can hammer, lightly tap actually, is the bolt while someone is trying to turn the wrench, it helps sometimes and is only meant for certain situations.
We tried using a pipe as an extension. We tried with all we could, but no budge.
Thanks for the advice.
Originally Posted By: AWDfreak
I will never use a ratchet to loosen/tighten a drain plug again.
I ruined my dad's decade old ratchet set that way. I was trying to loosen the (overtightened) drain plug and no matter how hard I tried, it wouldn't loosen. Then, as I'm hammering at the ratchet to loosen it, I notice the ratchet moves in the direction I don't want it to... I broke the ratchet.
Those aren't reasons not to use ratchets on drain plugs. I think there are different, but related, takeaways from that experience:
1/ Don't overtighten anything, drain plugs especially
2/ Don't hammer on ratchets, regardless of what kind of fastener you're loosening.
1) dealership did the previous oil change, so no oil changes from dealer
2) good point
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Never hammer on a wrench or ratchet, it only asks for trouble. Get a breaker bar or an extension pipe.
The only thing that you can hammer, lightly tap actually, is the bolt while someone is trying to turn the wrench, it helps sometimes and is only meant for certain situations.
We tried using a pipe as an extension. We tried with all we could, but no budge.
Thanks for the advice.
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I usually just use a ratchet, but I'll use whatever's handy.
If you've worked on cars for a while, even just doing your own maintenance, you get a feel for how tight to tighten things like oil drain plugs, spark plugs, etc. I've never stripped a drain plug.
I just got my most recent vehicle and when I did an oil change, I discovered that whatever 'professional' mechanic (or Iffy Lube flunkie, who knows?) that tightened the drain plug, had apparently thought they were tightening lug nuts on the space shuttle. I thought I was going to have to use a breaker bar to loosen it.
If you've worked on cars for a while, even just doing your own maintenance, you get a feel for how tight to tighten things like oil drain plugs, spark plugs, etc. I've never stripped a drain plug.
I just got my most recent vehicle and when I did an oil change, I discovered that whatever 'professional' mechanic (or Iffy Lube flunkie, who knows?) that tightened the drain plug, had apparently thought they were tightening lug nuts on the space shuttle. I thought I was going to have to use a breaker bar to loosen it.
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Originally Posted By: Ken2
The original poster's premise was wrong--not about the tool for the job but about the fool doing the job. Any bozo can screw up any job with any tool. It isn't the wand, it's the magician....
I am aware of this. I have never screwed up any drain plugs or oil pans.
But the point is, there are always a number of tools that one can use for a job, but some tools are better than others because they are less prone to errors and screw-ups. That is what this discussion is about.
The original poster's premise was wrong--not about the tool for the job but about the fool doing the job. Any bozo can screw up any job with any tool. It isn't the wand, it's the magician....
I am aware of this. I have never screwed up any drain plugs or oil pans.
But the point is, there are always a number of tools that one can use for a job, but some tools are better than others because they are less prone to errors and screw-ups. That is what this discussion is about.
Originally Posted By: AWDfreak
Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
Originally Posted By: AWDfreak
I will never use a ratchet to loosen/tighten a drain plug again.
I ruined my dad's decade old ratchet set that way. I was trying to loosen the (overtightened) drain plug and no matter how hard I tried, it wouldn't loosen. Then, as I'm hammering at the ratchet to loosen it, I notice the ratchet moves in the direction I don't want it to... I broke the ratchet.
Those aren't reasons not to use ratchets on drain plugs. I think there are different, but related, takeaways from that experience:
1/ Don't overtighten anything, drain plugs especially
2/ Don't hammer on ratchets, regardless of what kind of fastener you're loosening.
1) dealership did the previous oil change, so no oil changes from dealer
2) good point
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Never hammer on a wrench or ratchet, it only asks for trouble. Get a breaker bar or an extension pipe.
The only thing that you can hammer, lightly tap actually, is the bolt while someone is trying to turn the wrench, it helps sometimes and is only meant for certain situations.
We tried using a pipe as an extension. We tried with all we could, but no budge.
Thanks for the advice.
The mechanic at the dealer would have just put it on the hoist and gave it a couple of whacks with an impact driver. You'd be surprised how easily that can loosen up what seems like an impossibly tight nut/bolt.
Yes never hammer on a ratchet, it's common sense really. Most good socket sets will come with both a ratchet handle and a straight "breaker" bar which is the one to use for that type of thing.
Personally I always just use a ratchet drive socket for my drain plug. I've got heaps of different wrenches that I could use but a simple ratchet/socket does the job just fine. It gives me a bit more leverage for cracking it open and like others have said if you take any sort of care when tightening you'll have no problems.
The other advantage of the ratchet is that I don't have a lot of space under the car when doing an oil change. My ratchet has a nice fine mechanism and a pivoting head so it lets me position the handle more easily into whatever position gives the best leverage for cracking open the plug.
Also there must be about a 10 to 1 ratio between the minimum torque just to make sure it wont leak or rattle out and what would be needed to strip it! So I do it by feel and I'd estimate that I use about 30 ft-lbs, which is probably just a bit more than enough but definitely 100% safe. To be honest even 10-15 ft lbs would probably hold it and you'd need 100+ ft lbs to strip most plugs.
Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
Originally Posted By: AWDfreak
I will never use a ratchet to loosen/tighten a drain plug again.
I ruined my dad's decade old ratchet set that way. I was trying to loosen the (overtightened) drain plug and no matter how hard I tried, it wouldn't loosen. Then, as I'm hammering at the ratchet to loosen it, I notice the ratchet moves in the direction I don't want it to... I broke the ratchet.
Those aren't reasons not to use ratchets on drain plugs. I think there are different, but related, takeaways from that experience:
1/ Don't overtighten anything, drain plugs especially
2/ Don't hammer on ratchets, regardless of what kind of fastener you're loosening.
1) dealership did the previous oil change, so no oil changes from dealer
2) good point
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Never hammer on a wrench or ratchet, it only asks for trouble. Get a breaker bar or an extension pipe.
The only thing that you can hammer, lightly tap actually, is the bolt while someone is trying to turn the wrench, it helps sometimes and is only meant for certain situations.
We tried using a pipe as an extension. We tried with all we could, but no budge.
Thanks for the advice.
The mechanic at the dealer would have just put it on the hoist and gave it a couple of whacks with an impact driver. You'd be surprised how easily that can loosen up what seems like an impossibly tight nut/bolt.
Yes never hammer on a ratchet, it's common sense really. Most good socket sets will come with both a ratchet handle and a straight "breaker" bar which is the one to use for that type of thing.
Personally I always just use a ratchet drive socket for my drain plug. I've got heaps of different wrenches that I could use but a simple ratchet/socket does the job just fine. It gives me a bit more leverage for cracking it open and like others have said if you take any sort of care when tightening you'll have no problems.
The other advantage of the ratchet is that I don't have a lot of space under the car when doing an oil change. My ratchet has a nice fine mechanism and a pivoting head so it lets me position the handle more easily into whatever position gives the best leverage for cracking open the plug.
Also there must be about a 10 to 1 ratio between the minimum torque just to make sure it wont leak or rattle out and what would be needed to strip it! So I do it by feel and I'd estimate that I use about 30 ft-lbs, which is probably just a bit more than enough but definitely 100% safe. To be honest even 10-15 ft lbs would probably hold it and you'd need 100+ ft lbs to strip most plugs.
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6 point socket wrench to remove and torque wrench to replace
Patman
Staff member
I've still got a Fram Sure Drain on my car, so no wrench or socket needed (I just need to make sure never to lose the other piece to it!)
Originally Posted By: Sedin26
I think all that matters is that you use common sense. Whatever you use, don't bear down on it to the point of ridiculousness and you should have no problems.
I agree Sedin 26, Common Sence to me is getting the drain bolt specs on ft lbs torque, using a torque wrench according to the proper torque wrench method and insuring not to cross thread.
In doing that now for 35 years changing my own oil I have never had a problem with a drain plug or washer. I go by the engineers in my factory service manuals on torque specs, torquing to specs never damages a drain bolt in my experience and when I remove the drain bolt that is torqued to spec it comes off easily after the OC cycle. Also, at the proper torque spec I sleep good knowing the bolt is not too loose and going to fall off or too tight and do damage to the washer, bolt or pan bolt housing with over torquing. The washers are designed for specific torque, expecially all plastic or rubber centered washers with metal outside circumference, most these want no more than 18 ft lbs or they can be damaged in cracking, squashed and not seal or under torque can cause the rubbler or plastic not to seal.. Plastic washers have a lot of give to them, without a torqued wrench and specs how does one know when to stop due to the softness of plastic washer? I like the copper washers, my Nissan copper washers can be used 30-40 times as long as they are torqued to specs of ft lbs required, they do not damage.
I had a 1980 Datsun, the size of drian bolt and construction of the pan I could have done 100 ft lbs with the huge copper washer. The way everything is made today I want to torque to engineered specs. I bet 99% of anyone who is torquing a drain bolt without a torque wrench is over torquing, that would be human nature to insure the bolt does not fall off, "better tight than loose", that depends on the pan, washer material and bolt tolerance in strength and design particularly on newer vehicles and their shortcomings in quality, my 2005 Nissan is 1/4 the quality of construction on the pan and bolt housing compared to my 87 Nissan. Both vehiciles call for a 22-30 ft lb torque, I would go over that torque spec on the 87 Nissan and sleep, NEVER on the 05 pan and bolt housing construction and using the 05 bolt that is 1/4 the size, I stay on high end of ENGINEERED torque specs without guessing. That is common sence to me.
Cyprs
I think all that matters is that you use common sense. Whatever you use, don't bear down on it to the point of ridiculousness and you should have no problems.
I agree Sedin 26, Common Sence to me is getting the drain bolt specs on ft lbs torque, using a torque wrench according to the proper torque wrench method and insuring not to cross thread.
In doing that now for 35 years changing my own oil I have never had a problem with a drain plug or washer. I go by the engineers in my factory service manuals on torque specs, torquing to specs never damages a drain bolt in my experience and when I remove the drain bolt that is torqued to spec it comes off easily after the OC cycle. Also, at the proper torque spec I sleep good knowing the bolt is not too loose and going to fall off or too tight and do damage to the washer, bolt or pan bolt housing with over torquing. The washers are designed for specific torque, expecially all plastic or rubber centered washers with metal outside circumference, most these want no more than 18 ft lbs or they can be damaged in cracking, squashed and not seal or under torque can cause the rubbler or plastic not to seal.. Plastic washers have a lot of give to them, without a torqued wrench and specs how does one know when to stop due to the softness of plastic washer? I like the copper washers, my Nissan copper washers can be used 30-40 times as long as they are torqued to specs of ft lbs required, they do not damage.
I had a 1980 Datsun, the size of drian bolt and construction of the pan I could have done 100 ft lbs with the huge copper washer. The way everything is made today I want to torque to engineered specs. I bet 99% of anyone who is torquing a drain bolt without a torque wrench is over torquing, that would be human nature to insure the bolt does not fall off, "better tight than loose", that depends on the pan, washer material and bolt tolerance in strength and design particularly on newer vehicles and their shortcomings in quality, my 2005 Nissan is 1/4 the quality of construction on the pan and bolt housing compared to my 87 Nissan. Both vehiciles call for a 22-30 ft lb torque, I would go over that torque spec on the 87 Nissan and sleep, NEVER on the 05 pan and bolt housing construction and using the 05 bolt that is 1/4 the size, I stay on high end of ENGINEERED torque specs without guessing. That is common sence to me.
Cyprs
Just use a torque wrench and you won't over tighten
Wrench.
I pretty much use a ratchet for everything.
If I have to use a wrench I will, but I'm a ratchet guy
If I have to use a wrench I will, but I'm a ratchet guy
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Six point socket with a ratchet always. Four decades diy oil change never stripped a drain plug.
Also, one of those guys that has difficulty with righty tighty, lefty loosey, when not oriented looking directly at the drain plug. I'd be more likely to over tighten a plug with a combo wrench trying remove the plug. Not an issue setting the ratchet. I don't use a torque wrench, snug, check for leaks, go.
Quote:
Point is, he says real mechanics use wrenches for removing engine oil drain plugs-- not ratchets.
If I had access to a lift/pit bay as shop mechanics do, might use a combo wrench. But congrats on him being a "real mechanic", very impressive.
Also, one of those guys that has difficulty with righty tighty, lefty loosey, when not oriented looking directly at the drain plug. I'd be more likely to over tighten a plug with a combo wrench trying remove the plug. Not an issue setting the ratchet. I don't use a torque wrench, snug, check for leaks, go.
Quote:
Point is, he says real mechanics use wrenches for removing engine oil drain plugs-- not ratchets.
If I had access to a lift/pit bay as shop mechanics do, might use a combo wrench. But congrats on him being a "real mechanic", very impressive.
i use a ratchet because I don't have many wrenches and I have to take off the skid plate first. The skid plate is metric, the drain plug is english. The factory marked a line across the oil pan and drain plug and I use that as a reference point for tightening. I hand tighten for the most part and then a little rotation with the ratchet lines it up everytime. Always comes off easy the next change, no damage to the washer or threads and no leaks.
I use a Craftsman Dogbone wrench with 6-point sockets. It's great to have when you're under the car and you don't remember the size of the plug. You don't have to fiddle with putting on a bunch of different sockets, just rotate the ends of the wrench.
As far as my selective memory goes I have used the box end of a wrench.Push down toward plug while loosening,no slippage.
Since I have had new vehicles I have not had a stripped drain plug(head or thread).The only exception is when I bought a "Sidewinder" ratchet when I had a Cummins Ram to avoid the hot oil shower because of the large shoulered drain plug.
Since I have had new vehicles I have not had a stripped drain plug(head or thread).The only exception is when I bought a "Sidewinder" ratchet when I had a Cummins Ram to avoid the hot oil shower because of the large shoulered drain plug.
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