winterizing motocycles

[Jay]

It's that time of year for cold-climate motorcyclists to put their rides away for the winter. Motorcyclist magazine just did the usual story on how to winterize your bike and said the usual things. Among them, they recommended changing the oil and filter because, "Acids are a natural byproduct of combusting fuel and air and many of these acids end up suspended in the oil...lighter constituents will rise up and attack the exposed components...the heavy deposits will fall through the oil and sit on the bottom, creating sludge."

Do you buy this? I don't think I do. The acids should be neutralized by the bases in the oil. Any water in the oil should sink to the bottom of the pan--out of harm's way. Will the contaminants that the detergents hold in suspension fall out of suspension and form sludge in a winter's sit?

If you change the oil in the fall then you have partially oxidized oil come spring. Do you really come out ahead by changing oil in the fall or does this just waste oil?

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

Jay,

I myself would not change just for those reasons. As suggested, the oil does have antioxidants designed to keep the acids neutralized but, all this depends on how well you maintain your bike. If you're one that doesn't do regular maintenance, then yes, this could result in sludge but that only happens when the oil starts to breakdown due to not doing proper oil changes as the norm. I myself don't bother with changing the oil much anymore unless I have the miles/time on it.

On my harley, I have the Schaeffers 20w50 race oil and I change it approx 3,000 miles as it is designed as a race oil and has less detergents as such and not designed to extend drains. I normally end up changing about once a year in my case. I do change it when it is hot.

Also, if I am going to let this engine sit and not run it, I will put in a good fuel stabilizer such as the 131 neutra so to help keep the carb from varnishing and causing problems as well in the future.

The newer gf-3 oils are a lot more resistive to breakdown and such than the older oils so sludging should not really be near a problem as in the past. As for the contaminants, if it will come out of suspension and drop to the bottom, then it's big enough to get trapped in the filter or be attracted to the magnet otherwise the oil should hold it suspended IMO.

I have taken some actual sludge and put it into a tube with oil, mixed it, and yes, sludge would drop back out of suspension, but that too would get trapped into a filter if picked up by the pump. The oil stayed dark and did not separate meaning that the lighter contaminants stayed in suspension. So only if you have sludge to start with due to excessive oil drains, would you possible start to accumulate this on the bottom.

 

[Propflux01]

If you change the oil in the fall then you have partially oxidized oil come spring. Do you really come out ahead by changing oil in the fall or does this just waste oil?[/QB][/QUOTE]

I can't say I agree with that, if you look at all the articles about winterizing, all say to change the oils. I believe the reason for this is to:

1. Remove all traces of acids and sludge-puppies accumulated during the riding season.

2. prevent rust (not all the water will go to the bottom)by removing all traces of water in the oil system..this is, of course, assuming you drained while hot.

3. ensure that new oil is there for preventing any corrosion of engine parts over the winter season. This based on not using the oils additives, just having the film of base oil if nothing else to coat the part. I see no diference in new oil being stored in a motorcycle engine or a plastic jug. if it is only sitting there doing nothing.......is my point valid?

 

[dragboat]

Quote:
"If you change the oil in the fall then you have partially oxidized oil come spring. Do you really come out ahead by changing oil in the fall or does this just waste oil?"

I think you come out ahead if the oil is near time to change anyway. A waste if the oil is not yet dead. I never liked the idea of a oil filter setting for a period of say 6 months then put into service like business as usual. It has been soaked,not plugged up but used in some way.

I think the 131 Nuetra to be the ticket in certain circumstances and is inexpensive. If the acids are nuetralized in the oil thats all that needs done when motor is sitting imo.I don't winterize a Motorcycle here in OK because all through winter there are some good days to bust them off and ride to get rid of that Cabin Fever

Jay brings up something to ponder though. How many ways will a oil Oxidize? Over heating yep,and from reading along time back through exposure to open air. If true,the oil would need changed very early into the spring interval imo.

But if on the last time the engine was run it was brought up to full temp would be the best way to park one imo,no starting for brief periods in winter like some say to do to circulate and lube the engine which will rust the mufflers and form condensation in the engine that will not be burnt off until spring or oil is changed. If you have a good oil in it it will stay attached to the vital parts.

I have bare 454 blocks stacked like cordwood. I learned many years back that motor oil was not a good rust preventive to store them with even in a dry environment.

So the real answer I suppose in a perfect world would be to change oil and filter and put them up dry if not in the mind to use the 131 Schaeffers

 

[satterfi]

If the oil had more than 3,000 miles on it I might change it if I weren't going to start the engine for several months.

It seems to me the engine and carbs would be better off if you started it and let it get hot every few weeks.

For me winterizing the bike means getting out the electric vest/gloves and riding.

 

[Bror Jace]

Jay, some may overstate the corrosion issue but I take it as very real and significant. The same motorcycle advice holds true for specialty cars and power equipment which is used only seasonally then sits silent for months at a time. Engines have lots of little spaces where tiny amounts of oil get trapped between metal surfaces. Little pockets of corrosive elements (water, acids, etc …) trapped in the same location over time can locally overload the corrosion protection and cause pitting and or wear. Remember, a light layer of corrosion is easily worn off. If this is a common occurrence (corrosion followed by its mechanical removal by running the engine), bearing journals, cam lobes, etc … will wear much faster than they ordinarily would.

However, I think that people who have an infrequently-used machine and change their oil every spring … then change it again in the fall are merely being wasteful. New oil, sitting in a crankcase in a garage for a few months, should be fine. The second change (spring) is unnecessary. If any moisture/condensation builds up in there during the off-season, a good half hour or longer run should purge it from the crankcase. That moisture won’t be mixed in with the oil and shouldn’t be in contact with the metal. So, no real problem.

So, if you are in the habit of changing your oil once per year as Bob does, I’d do it in the fall and keep that base covered. Just be sure to run your machine once with the fresh oil in it to make sure it gets thoroughly circulated throughout the engine and the 5-15% of the old oil (leftover after every change) is not anywhere in any concentration.

--- Bror Jace

 

[Chris]

Is that 5-15% an accepted norm?

 

[Bror Jace]

Nope, Chris, while most people know that some oil is left behind after an oil & filter change, the range I gave (5-15%) for old oil remaining in the crankcase is a S.W.A.G.

Swinging
Wild
Assed
Guess

Seriously, every machine is a little different and if you do goofy things like I do (jacking up one side of the car a foot higher than you have to) you can get more old oil out of your machine(s). I know some people like to let things drip and drain overnight. Still, there are valleys, lifters, etc ... will still hold some old oil. The only way to get 100% of the old oil out is to disassemle the motor and clean each piece in a parts washer.

--- Bror Jace

 

[Chris]

I am an over night drainer.

 

[Dick in Falls Church]

Bror Jace-

>>>S.W.A.G.

Swinging
Wild
Assed
Guess

I thought the "S" was "Sophisticated"

 

[diesel_fan]

I always had it decoded as "S" for "Scientific"