Will MMO Make Mobil 1 0w20 Too Light?

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: Quest
I wouldn't even think of adding MMO and the likes to upset an otherwise balanced formulation like PU or M1.

Esp. if you believe MMO has cleaning abilities, they why let it upset the additive packages in your oil?

If you believe MMO has thinning properties, then why let it upset the otherwise chemically-superior base oil (in syn such as M1, PU, etc.)?

Q.



I think Quest has pretty much nailed it. Mmo will thin your oil however the solvents will flash off in a rather short time leaving just whatever base oil they use and minimal anti-wear agents which will in effect dilute the original oils additive package and shortening the oils service life.
I'm a fan of mmo too and use it in many different applications. I've even got an inverse oiler on my daily driver however unless you have a deposit problem I don't see any gains by adding it,especially if the engine's internals are known to be clean.
The solvents which are iirc 70% of mmo's formulation will flash off pretty fast, I'm going to estimate within 1000 miles,so you'll be left with the 30% that's a mix of a mineral oil,scent and colouring and minimal(if any)anti-wear agents.
I don't think you've anything to gain by using it,but that's just my opinion.

 

[Cristobal]

For your climate, 0W-20 will work fine if the car maker specified it. MMO is great for thinning oil out, and for that reason, I would not use it with such thin oil in the first place. It might make it dangerously thin if you use a pint or more.

If you use it at all, use very tiny amounts, like an ounce or two.

 

[Quest]

Originally Posted By: Finz
Originally Posted By: Quest
I wouldn't even think of adding MMO and the likes to upset an otherwise balanced formulation like PU or M1.

Esp. if you believe MMO has cleaning abilities, they why let it upset the additive packages in your oil?

If you believe MMO has thinning properties, then why let it upset the otherwise chemically-superior base oil (in syn such as M1, PU, etc.)?

Q.


LOL Quest... Teetering on that snake oil line but I appreciate the feedback.

No question the M1s and Pennzoil Platinum / Pennzoil Ultra products have top notch add packs but I figure with 160k miles a little something extra wouldn't hurt... Might even be warranted .

Is this a good analogy? Laundry detergents do a good job. But every once in a while a shot of Clorox in the whites makes a real difference.

With proper dosage and so many grand testimonials, not to mention my own experiences, I have little doubt the gentle cleaning would be of some benefit

The thinning properties are exactly what I am after... Granted, I'm not going to see -40 or anything, but I will get to single digits come February and, if I can lessen the strain to some degree, I would think that to be a good thing.




Sorry bud, but I'm not buying into MMO and the likes.

I've been servicing automobiles (esp. gasoline automobiles, allergic to diesels) for over 2 decades now, with my customer fleet clocking over 1.5mil miles (cumulative) so far. None of them that I perform regular oil changes and servicing needs to add 10-min engine flush, oil thinners of any kind, no stoddard solvents like MMO. If the engine needs serious scrubbing, I take them apart and scrub it. solvents? oil cleaners?snake oil? million mile engine coaters, naah! I don't believe a single bit in that.

When I need a thinner oil (for specific applications), I go buy a thinner oil; if I need thicker oil, I go buy and put in thicker oil, simple as that.

wifey's 2nd-hand camry just got over 171k with just ordinary diet of either Pennzoil Conventional or Quaker State Conventional, passing the annual emissions inspections and doesn't burn a single drop of oil throughout it's 5K oci regimen.

I'm doing the same thing to my one-owner fit...following the OLM.

I don't believe in playing chemist on an otherwise chemically-balanced oil formulation.

Enjoy!

Q.

 

[toneydoc]

I would run the Mobil 1 and not add the MMO to it. Mobil 1 is a great oil all by itself.

 

[Finz]

Originally Posted By: Donald
Originally Posted By: Finz
Originally Posted By: Donald
Originally Posted By: Finz


Donald: thank you. I would have agreed with you on the oil weight prior to using TGMO I the Odyssey but since then, I have no doubt that the lighter oil made a significant difference

By the way, tactfully done with regard to snake oil,,, LOL




I am not sure how you qualify "made a significant difference". If you mean at startup it sounded better or turned faster that may be, but with the engine fully warmed up you do not want the oil too thin or it will not handle the lubrication job properly. And that you may not be able to qualify for many miles and only then after engine disassembly.


Exactly that... Since adding the TGMO, I literally have to pay attention and focus so I can hear the engine. Prior to that, I could hear the car at cold idle easily As is the case with the accord, the car is used for short runs with the occasional highway use.

In both cases, with few exceptions, I'm sorry to say that neither reaches operating temps often

I have to say Thank you to all again... This, for me, is a very insightful and civil thread.


You may also get fuel dilution from the engine not getting to operating temps which will thin the oil also.


Yes, I don't doubt that at all... I hope the 5,000 OCI helps to mitigate that

 

[Trajan]

Why would you want to add something like this if you don't know how it reacts with the add packs of fully formulated oil?

Why add a solvent that can remove the boundry layer lubrication?

Have a gander at this thread.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/posts/2314000/

 

[Finz]

Originally Posted By: Quest
Originally Posted By: Finz
Originally Posted By: Quest
I wouldn't even think of adding MMO and the likes to upset an otherwise balanced formulation like PU or M1.

Esp. if you believe MMO has cleaning abilities, they why let it upset the additive packages in your oil?

If you believe MMO has thinning properties, then why let it upset the otherwise chemically-superior base oil (in syn such as M1, PU, etc.)?

Q.


LOL Quest... Teetering on that snake oil line but I appreciate the feedback.

No question the M1s and Pennzoil Platinum / Pennzoil Ultra products have top notch add packs but I figure with 160k miles a little something extra wouldn't hurt... Might even be warranted .

Is this a good analogy? Laundry detergents do a good job. But every once in a while a shot of Clorox in the whites makes a real difference.

With proper dosage and so many grand testimonials, not to mention my own experiences, I have little doubt the gentle cleaning would be of some benefit

The thinning properties are exactly what I am after... Granted, I'm not going to see -40 or anything, but I will get to single digits come February and, if I can lessen the strain to some degree, I would think that to be a good thing.




Sorry bud, but I'm not buying into MMO and the likes.

I've been servicing automobiles (esp. gasoline automobiles, allergic to diesels) for over 2 decades now, with my customer fleet clocking over 1.5mil miles (cumulative) so far. None of them that I perform regular oil changes and servicing needs to add 10-min engine flush, oil thinners of any kind, no stoddard solvents like MMO. If the engine needs serious scrubbing, I take them apart and scrub it. solvents? oil cleaners?snake oil? million mile engine coaters, naah! I don't believe a single bit in that.

When I need a thinner oil (for specific applications), I go buy a thinner oil; if I need thicker oil, I go buy and put in thicker oil, simple as that.

wifey's 2nd-hand camry just got over 171k with just ordinary diet of either Pennzoil Conventional or Quaker State Conventional, passing the annual emissions inspections and doesn't burn a single drop of oil throughout it's 5K oci regimen.

I'm doing the same thing to my one-owner fit...following the OLM.

I don't believe in playing chemist on an otherwise chemically-balanced oil formulation.

Enjoy!

Q.


I can't disagree with any of what you're saying.., Lord knows you have a lot more experience than I.

For clarity's sake, though, it seems this discussion has deviated a bit from my initial question.

No question, the M1s and Pennzoil products are great oils which do a great job of cleaning

No question, whether you like or dislike (for lack of a better word) MMO for its potential to clean, that MMO will thin out an oil to a proportional extent

No question I'm in an area where temp extremes won't be seen

There IS a question as to whether or not my accord, with 160k miles - the last 40k of which have been predominantly short hops - could make use of a little "detergent boost" alongside M1. Again, nothing evident in the car as problematic or indicating that it's "dirty"... But can your engine be too clean? However, the cleaning of the engine is not the driving force behind my OP

Many.., all responses, in fact, have indicated that adding MMO would make the oil too thin. But on what basis is that determination made? I agree that with a 0W-20, the recommended 20% - 25% could be an issue from a thinning stand point but does mean that any proportion should be avoided...?

Clevy raised a good point about flash off - given car's usage, am I still subject to this to the same extent as another with longer, hotter runs on their oil?

It's becoming more theoretical for me now but if TGMO is upwards of 40% lighter at room temperature than M1, is it not possible to use up my M1 stash alongside SOME amount MMO and get myself to the TGMO lightness?

After all, I'm pretty sure I've read on BITOG that M1 is among the heavier 20 weights

I know... I know... Footprints on that dead horse from kicking it so much but is there no logic to what I'm saying?

 

[Finz]

Originally Posted By: Trajan
Why would you want to add something like this if you don't know how it reacts with the add packs of fully formulated oil?

Why add a solvent that can remove the boundry layer lubrication?

Have a gander at this thread.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/posts/2314000/







Yes Trajan... I've seen that thread and others like it. I'm sure there will be more to come. My answer that THAT particular issue is that each driver develops needs particular to their own car, environment, ... Whatever, right?

As a car's mileage increases and traffic/driving patterns/driving styles "evolve", then a car's needs become more evident.

Any oil on the shelf is designed for a general application to cover many spectrums of car and/or driver... in general.

Once the car ages or driving patterns change or, or or.... These additives can make a difference.

But I have to repeat that I'm not after THOSE type benefits per se'... The intent of my OP was to discuss the feasibility of using MMO to lighten M1 to something akin to TGMO

On a side note, I prefer dunkin donuts over Starbucks

 

[demarpaint]

Mobil 1 is a good oil all by itself. If you feel the engine needs some cleaning add a pint of MMO. Contrary to what many people believe here it isn't going to harm the engine or ruin the oil. Just visit the used oil analysis section and check out the reports where MMO was used if you need some proof.

I will guarantee you this, your engine will turn over easier in extreme cold with the MMO added to the oil. Having said all of that, if the engine doesn't need cleaning, isn't ticking or tapping, skip the MMO.

 

[NMBurb02]

Maybe use a blend of M1 and TGMO...2.5 qt TGMO and 2 qt M1. It'll take longer to work through your M1 stash, but don't have to worry about the final mixture being too thin.

Or go with dermapaint's suggestion and run 0.5 qt MMO in 4 qt M1.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: Finz
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Why would you want to add something like this if you don't know how it reacts with the add packs of fully formulated oil?

Why add a solvent that can remove the boundry layer lubrication?

Have a gander at this thread.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/posts/2314000/







Yes Trajan... I've seen that thread and others like it. I'm sure there will be more to come. My answer that THAT particular issue is that each driver develops needs particular to their own car, environment, ... Whatever, right?

As a car's mileage increases and traffic/driving patterns/driving styles "evolve", then a car's needs become more evident.

Any oil on the shelf is designed for a general application to cover many spectrums of car and/or driver... in general.

Once the car ages or driving patterns change or, or or.... These additives can make a difference.

But I have to repeat that I'm not after THOSE type benefits per se'... The intent of my OP was to discuss the feasibility of using MMO to lighten M1 to something akin to TGMO

On a side note, I prefer dunkin donuts over Starbucks


Which still leaves the questions unanswered

I don't drink coffee, so I have to leave the DD/Starbucks debates to others more qualified.

Now , if you're looking to thin 0w-20, use 1qt of that and fill the balance with MMO.

 

[Clevy]

Finz
Although I don't think adding mmo will do any harm in your application I just can't see where there will be an improvement.
Now for example if the ambient temps are in the ranges you mentioned then adding mmo at that time,when those weather conditions are upon you there could be a cold start improvement because of the solvent thinning the oil but adding it now while temps are still mild just doesn't seem like a win to me.
And I've seen you mention a few times how much you like tgmo so why not just buy it and run it without any additives.
Can you take the M1 back for a refund or has it been around for awhile? Tgmo is a great product and you seem to like it so why mess with a good thing?
Can you use the M1 in another vehicle,or do you know someone that has a vehicle that specifies the grade of M1 you've got ?
If you do why not ask them to buy some tgmo and make a trade. M1 is a quality oil and I can't see why anyone would turn you down?
I'm just spitballing here. You are trying to play mixologist and trying to create a lube that is comparable to tgmo so the best idea would be to just but some.
Or you could use the M1 you have now next spring when temps increase and cold starting is less affected.
Dunno.......

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Trajan


Now , if you're looking to thin 0w-20, use 1qt of that and fill the balance with MMO.



Maybe you're onto something. Why not try it for yourself and report back?

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Trajan


Now , if you're looking to thin 0w-20, use 1qt of that and fill the balance with MMO.



Maybe you're onto something. Why not try it for yourself and report back?


Because I know that putting MMO in the oil is a waste of good oil. Because I don't need to adulterate good oil that has gone light years ahead of what was around in 1930 thanks to real science and technology and research. As opposed to sticking in a "jack of all trades, yet master of none."

I also can't answer the questions asked by our resident tribologist. Which is why I don't add such things to the oil. Not any more. Can you answer them?

But don't let that stop anyone from adding the Great Liquid Hope to their engine. It is their engine after all.

 

[Finz]

Thanks Clevy... Of course you're right, but I, too, was just spitballing.

So let's... Canadian $ exchange rate... $ for M1 in Canadian walmart...

That'll be 1 meeeelion dollars please

 

[Finz]

Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Trajan


Now , if you're looking to thin 0w-20, use 1qt of that and fill the balance with MMO.



Maybe you're onto something. Why not try it for yourself and report back?


Because I know that putting MMO in the oil is a waste of good oil. Because I don't need to adulterate good oil that has gone light years ahead of what was around in 1930 thanks to real science and technology and research. As opposed to sticking in a "jack of all trades, yet master of none."

I also can't answer the questions asked by our resident tribologist. Which is why I don't add such things to the oil. Not any more. Can you answer them?

But don't let that stop anyone from adding the Great Liquid Hope to their engine. It is their engine after all.


LOL... Really?

Is it too late to retract my earlier post: This, for me, is a very insightful and civil thread

And to think... We almost made it. Oh well - Can't blame a guy for trying

Thanks all for a good discussion. I enjoyed it while it lasted

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: Finz
Thanks Clevy... Of course you're right, but I, too, was just spitballing.

So let's... Canadian $ exchange rate... $ for M1 in Canadian walmart...

That'll be 1 meeeelion dollars please



Sadly finz your comment isn't far from the truth when it comes to what M1's worth here.
If I could get M1 for the price our southern neighbours get it for I'd convert and use it exclusively.
I think most are aware of my distain for M1 as a whole however I'm not stupid. 25 bucks a jug makes it a no brainer.
Unless of course ultra is within a couple bucks of that, then I'd be rollin with it.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: Finz
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Trajan


Now , if you're looking to thin 0w-20, use 1qt of that and fill the balance with MMO.



Maybe you're onto something. Why not try it for yourself and report back?


Because I know that putting MMO in the oil is a waste of good oil. Because I don't need to adulterate good oil that has gone light years ahead of what was around in 1930 thanks to real science and technology and research. As opposed to sticking in a "jack of all trades, yet master of none."

I also can't answer the questions asked by our resident tribologist. Which is why I don't add such things to the oil. Not any more. Can you answer them?

But don't let that stop anyone from adding the Great Liquid Hope to their engine. It is their engine after all.


LOL... Really?

Is it too late to retract my earlier post: This, for me, is a very insightful and civil thread


Is it? I don't decide that. That is something that you and you alone can decide. And BTW, that post wasn't aimed at you.

How far are you looking to thin the 0w-20?

Once you know that, how many qts of mmo do you need to add to accomplish it?

Once you know that, since it is a solvent, a light one, but still, what will it do to the oil film that is already covering the parts? Will it strip it off? I've read here that it will.

Now if you're trying to clean things up, why not shorter OCI?

Does mmo work? In the gas, no question. The late Gary Allan showed pics of just how clean his pistons were by using it in the gas.

In the oil, well, that's more debatable. Many people claim it does, but like Quest, I think it's more psychological than concrete. And the way some act when questioned tends to confirm it.

Do we all want cleaner engines? Sure. But as one said:

Originally Posted By: Trav

If you are using a Synthetic oil leave the wizards in a bottle on the shelf if you are using anything less then yes they may be of some benefit but at the and of the day you are just trying to turn a dog into a fox.


And I do. Ever since mmo failed to solve a problem.

But as I also say, it's your engine/money/call. My concerns are not by necessity yours.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Trajan


Now , if you're looking to thin 0w-20, use 1qt of that and fill the balance with MMO.



Maybe you're onto something. Why not try it for yourself and report back?


Because I know that putting MMO in the oil is a waste of good oil. Because I don't need to adulterate good oil that has gone light years ahead of what was around in 1930 thanks to real science and technology and research. As opposed to sticking in a "jack of all trades, yet master of none."

I also can't answer the questions asked by our resident tribologist. Which is why I don't add such things to the oil. Not any more. Can you answer them?

But don't let that stop anyone from adding the Great Liquid Hope to their engine. It is their engine after all.


There you go again Trajan polluting another MMO thread with your opinions and bashing, which is what the original poster asked people not to do. If you can't contribute to the thread in a civil non bashing tone why not stay out like the OP asked.

 

[Mystic]

Trajan in a reply above suggested using 1 quart of the Mobil 1 oil and the rest MMO. I am not trying to fight with Trajan but Finz definitely do not do anything like that. MMO is supposed to be used at a maximum amount in oil of 20% to 25%.

The Mobil 1 0W-20 seems to me like it would be thin enough. I don't think you would need to use MMO to thin the oil and if you wanted to use the MMO to help clean the engine that would probably best be done in the wintertime (maximum 20% to 25% MMO). People who use MMO for cleaning often do the cleaning in the wintertime when thinner oil would not hurt.

The best person perhaps to find out about MMO here at this website as far as I know is demarpaint. He has some 40 years of experience using it.

If I was using Mobil 1 0W-20 that is a plenty thin oil and I would probably hesitate to put anything in the oil that would thin it, even in the wintertime. Perhaps try to find out if your engine really is dirty inside. Mobil 1 is supposed to have some cleaning ability on its own.

I am not an expert but I have tried to help rather than pontificate on whatever engine cleaners and oil supplements somebody uses.