Will GM and Chrysler Bankruptcy Kill Ford??

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My last two foreign cars were built in America. My last two American cars weren't. So should I buy American and support foreign workers and American executives? Or American workers and foreign executives? Let me know, I really believe my next vehicle purchase will be based on a patriotic fools feelings.


Exactly. Buy what you like/need/afford.

John
 
Originally Posted By: 65cuda
It is gov owned because GM and Chrysler didn't pay attention to business .


The biggest culprits for failure of GM and Chrysler are the private management staff over the past four decades or so.

How about a class action suit against the last four decades of management at GM and Chrysler that REQUIRES them and the BoD to repay all their salaries, bonuses and compensation for gross negligence? I'd love to see that!!!!!!!!
 
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Originally Posted By: Vilan
Originally Posted By: Johnny
It would be like you going to a bank to make a loan for your house and the bank telling you what color to paint it and what kind of furniture to put in it. Oh, and you have to cut the grass with the electric mower we tell you to buy.


Your choice of paint, furniture, or mower is unlikely to affect your ability to pay back the loan, which is what the bank cares about.

But GM's choice of what cars to produce could very definitely affect their ability to pay back their loan.


And the government is telling them to produce cars that people won't want to buy. GM golf carts=low sales=perennial governmental control. Premeditated? Maybe. I agree with that early poster who compared this to Amtrak. Has anyone had experience with Amtrak? Worst transportation experiences of my life. Never again. Amtrak was when the gov't decided it could make rail travel profitable when private companies couldn't. Turned out real well, no?
 
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While I think that the gov't would like to see GM have a few smaller more economical models in their line up (the previous mgt was planning on this anyway). I ABSOLUTELY believe that GM will be able to also focus on larger trucks and SUVs if that is whatthe public still wants to buy. Of course if gas goes back up to nearly 5$ /gal, which I think it will by fall. I think small cars will be the ONLY thing selling when you combine that with an economy in recession.
 
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Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI

People need to wake up and realize that the Big 3 make some great vehicles. It is not 1979-1985. Very good vehicles offered from all of them( a few turds yes but not all ). Time to stop supporting all these foreign companies who do NOT make better vehicles. This is the USA. It is not Japan and Korea so why support those country's businesses? Support your own darn country's businesses.


It's my money, I earned every penny of it and I'll spend it as I please.



That's the problem with this country. Too many are concerned only for themselves and could care less about their fellow Americans. There will be a time when he won't have a penny to spend, and no will care about him either. GM and Chrysler make some good products. The warranties are backed by the govt., so no worry there. I believe the loans to the automakers will work out only if this country mans up and starts slapping import tariffs on the foreign competition. I'm all for free trade if there is a balance, but we're getting killed by unfair foreign competition.
 
Originally Posted By: cousincletus
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI

People need to wake up and realize that the Big 3 make some great vehicles. It is not 1979-1985. Very good vehicles offered from all of them( a few turds yes but not all ). Time to stop supporting all these foreign companies who do NOT make better vehicles. This is the USA. It is not Japan and Korea so why support those country's businesses? Support your own darn country's businesses.


It's my money, I earned every penny of it and I'll spend it as I please.



That's the problem with this country. Too many are concerned only for themselves and could care less about their fellow Americans. There will be a time when he won't have a penny to spend, and no will care about him either. GM and Chrysler make some good products. The warranties are backed by the govt., so no worry there. I believe the loans to the automakers will work out only if this country mans up and starts slapping import tariffs on the foreign competition. I'm all for free trade if there is a balance, but we're getting killed by unfair foreign competition.


I am still waiting for those UAW guys to help me with my job.
LOL.gif
If you knew anything about the auto industry you would know GM is the first OEM to demand parts be made in China so they could make more profit to fund the UAW obligations. This started back in the early 90's when Lopez was put in charge of Global Purchasing.

BTW, I already saw my first UAW= Un-American Auto Workers bumper sticker on a Honda.
 
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Originally Posted By: Vizzy
How about a class action suit against the last four decades of management at GM and Chrysler that REQUIRES them and the BoD to repay all their salaries, bonuses and compensation for gross negligence? I'd love to see that!!!!!!!!


crazy2.gif
crazy2.gif


Why not just sue Woodrow Wilson for the great depression..
crazy2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: cousincletus
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI

People need to wake up and realize that the Big 3 make some great vehicles. It is not 1979-1985. Very good vehicles offered from all of them( a few turds yes but not all ). Time to stop supporting all these foreign companies who do NOT make better vehicles. This is the USA. It is not Japan and Korea so why support those country's businesses? Support your own darn country's businesses.


It's my money, I earned every penny of it and I'll spend it as I please.



That's the problem with this country. Too many are concerned only for themselves and could care less about their fellow Americans. There will be a time when he won't have a penny to spend, and no will care about him either. GM and Chrysler make some good products. The warranties are backed by the govt., so no worry there. I believe the loans to the automakers will work out only if this country mans up and starts slapping import tariffs on the foreign competition. I'm all for free trade if there is a balance, but we're getting killed by unfair foreign competition.


I am still waiting for those UAW guys to help me with my job.
LOL.gif
If you knew anything about the auto industry you would know GM is the first OEM to demand parts be made in China so they could make more profit to fund the UAW obligations. This started back in the early 90's when Lopez was put in charge of Global Purchasing.

BTW, I already saw my first UAW= Un-American Auto Workers bumper sticker on a Honda.


If you knew anything about the auto industry you would know that overall GM has a higher domestic parts content than any import brand. I suppose that guy with the sticker on his Honda is really proud that a lot of the non-union workers at that plant make a whopping 10.50 per hour. May as well have a sticker that says I hate my country and the middle class.
 
Originally Posted By: Vizzy
While I think that the gov't would like to see GM have a few smaller more economical models in their line up (the previous mgt was planning on this anyway). I ABSOLUTELY believe that GM will be able to also focus on larger trucks and SUVs if that is whatthe public still wants to buy. Of course if gas goes back up to nearly 5$ /gal, which I think it will by fall. I think small cars will be the ONLY thing selling when you combine that with an economy in recession.


That's exactly right- we can't blame manufacturers too much for selling what the public wants. I doubt the government is going to tell GM what to make specifically, but they will tell everyone what to make via industry regulation. Regulation done CORRECTLY is good for the consumer- it protects us from the brutality of the open market, and protects us from situations where our short term wants can blind us from our long term needs. The tragedy of the commons.

Originally Posted By: cousincletus
If you knew anything about the auto industry you would know that overall GM has a higher domestic parts content than any import brand. I suppose that guy with the sticker on his Honda is really proud that a lot of the non-union workers at that plant make a whopping 10.50 per hour. May as well have a sticker that says I hate my country and the middle class.


Maybe that's how they got into this trouble- paying top price for stuff that doesn't require it. I'm all for unions, right up until they start telling people they can't work. What did those people making $10.50 an hour have before that? Nothing. Minimum wage [censored] jobs. What is unamerican is telling people they shouldn't have the choice to work for who and that they choose to. Remember, the unions are rooted in socialism and collectivism. The individual is meaningless, what matters is the group.
 
Originally Posted By: cousincletus
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI

People need to wake up and realize that the Big 3 make some great vehicles. It is not 1979-1985. Very good vehicles offered from all of them( a few turds yes but not all ). Time to stop supporting all these foreign companies who do NOT make better vehicles. This is the USA. It is not Japan and Korea so why support those country's businesses? Support your own darn country's businesses.


It's my money, I earned every penny of it and I'll spend it as I please.



That's the problem with this country. Too many are concerned only for themselves and could care less about their fellow Americans. There will be a time when he won't have a penny to spend, and no will care about him either. GM and Chrysler make some good products. The warranties are backed by the govt., so no worry there. I believe the loans to the automakers will work out only if this country mans up and starts slapping import tariffs on the foreign competition. I'm all for free trade if there is a balance, but we're getting killed by unfair foreign competition.

Nearly every time big tariffs are imposed, the public says "You weaklings are cheating, and for that, we will not buy your stuff or the imported stuff!"

Then the domestic makers are hurt again.

The other thing I say when the American companies whine about Japanese cars, I always say things like:
"Did Toyota summon Godzilla to step on you if you didn't sign those outrageous union contracts?"
"Did Honda kidnap your family and hold them for ransom until you built weak gaskets?"

And about the lower wage. Many people don't have their wage propped up so they get angry at those who do, and refuse to buy UAW built cars.

Another thing that is completely wrong is this idea that the majority of people who bought American cars support the bailouts. That is so false.

So the USA has to have auto companies here? Swedish manufacturers SAAB and Volvo got sold, so why don't you ask citizens of Sweden if that was so incredibly harmful to their nation?
 
Originally Posted By: Vizzy
Originally Posted By: 65cuda
It is gov owned because GM and Chrysler didn't pay attention to business .


The biggest culprits for failure of GM and Chrysler are the private management staff over the past four decades or so.

How about a class action suit against the last four decades of management at GM and Chrysler that REQUIRES them and the BoD to repay all their salaries, bonuses and compensation for gross negligence? I'd love to see that!!!!!!!!


So is Jurgne Schremmp at Dumbler Bends going to pay back the 18 billion he robbed from Chrysler during the merger of"equals"?
 
Originally Posted By: cousincletus
I believe the loans to the automakers will work out only if this country mans up and starts slapping import tariffs on the foreign competition. I'm all for free trade if there is a balance, but we're getting killed by unfair foreign competition.

Do you even realize the inconsistency in your statement? All for free trade, but let's save GM and Chrysler by slapping tariffs on foreign competition?

I guess you're not for free trade at all. Be honest. Even if you're wrong, even if your opinions are based on a false premise, at least be honest about what you believe.

The US is NOT being killed by foreign competition -- it's being killed by taxes and regulations and barriers constructed by Congress and the states.
 
Originally Posted By: cousincletus
Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: cousincletus
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI

People need to wake up and realize that the Big 3 make some great vehicles. It is not 1979-1985. Very good vehicles offered from all of them( a few turds yes but not all ). Time to stop supporting all these foreign companies who do NOT make better vehicles. This is the USA. It is not Japan and Korea so why support those country's businesses? Support your own darn country's businesses.


It's my money, I earned every penny of it and I'll spend it as I please.



That's the problem with this country. Too many are concerned only for themselves and could care less about their fellow Americans. There will be a time when he won't have a penny to spend, and no will care about him either. GM and Chrysler make some good products. The warranties are backed by the govt., so no worry there. I believe the loans to the automakers will work out only if this country mans up and starts slapping import tariffs on the foreign competition. I'm all for free trade if there is a balance, but we're getting killed by unfair foreign competition.


I am still waiting for those UAW guys to help me with my job.
LOL.gif
If you knew anything about the auto industry you would know GM is the first OEM to demand parts be made in China so they could make more profit to fund the UAW obligations. This started back in the early 90's when Lopez was put in charge of Global Purchasing.

BTW, I already saw my first UAW= Un-American Auto Workers bumper sticker on a Honda.


If you knew anything about the auto industry you would know that overall GM has a higher domestic parts content than any import brand. I suppose that guy with the sticker on his Honda is really proud that a lot of the non-union workers at that plant make a whopping 10.50 per hour. May as well have a sticker that says I hate my country and the middle class.


I don't hate my country...just can't stand the UAW. They are not representative of any middle class people in the USA and only care about themselves. Their recent activities are actually illegal. But they did them anyway. GM will never get any more of my money again. Other than what they will steal in free bailouts. May as well have a gun and knife to the throats of the middle class. If anyone hates the American way of life it is the UAW as they have benefited from the perversion of it.
 
Originally Posted By: cousincletus
I believe the loans to the automakers will work out only if this country mans up and starts slapping import tariffs on the foreign competition.


If we "Man up"?
crackmeup2.gif


Why doesn't the UAW "Man Up" and make a real car.
crackmeup2.gif
It is no accident that GM has gone from 51% market share to less than 20% and now many Americans have freely chosen imports.
 
Originally Posted By: cousincletus
I believe the loans to the automakers will work out only if this country mans up and starts slapping import tariffs on the foreign competition.


This is something I am very afraid of... that the US government (Canada and Ontario, too) has so much money invested in GM and Chrysler that they can't be allowed to fail.

So instead of two weakened auto companies, Congress could very well damage all the other auto companies with plants in America. This is, in fact, what I expect to happen, because I've seen all the other really really stupid things that Congress has done and is planning to do in the very near future!

What will it take to get Honda and Toyota and Hyundai and Mercedes-Benz and all the others to close their plants in the US? Probably nothing more than the tax and regulatory changes that Obama and the Democrats are already promising to make. But if that's not enough, then giving subsidies to GM and probably Chrysler for as far into the future as the eyes can see.... that will probably push the other auto makers over the brink.

To answer the original question: No, the GM and Chrysler bankruptcies will not kill Ford. But the GM and Chrysler bailouts might kill Ford... and might destroy the rest of the American auto industry too.
 
I don't see where the UAW has to man up and build a real car. After all they don't have the decision making power of design or marketing. That is the area of the execs. The execs were the ones that made the decision on what designs and what the marketing would be. The same execs that people were having a pity party for because they got fired when GM and Chrysler went bankrupt. The UAW has faults for sure, but blame the people that were suppose to be making the business decisions and not the ones on the floor building the cars.
 
Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: cousincletus
Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: cousincletus
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI

People need to wake up and realize that the Big 3 make some great vehicles. It is not 1979-1985. Very good vehicles offered from all of them( a few turds yes but not all ). Time to stop supporting all these foreign companies who do NOT make better vehicles. This is the USA. It is not Japan and Korea so why support those country's businesses? Support your own darn country's businesses.


It's my money, I earned every penny of it and I'll spend it as I please.



That's the problem with this country. Too many are concerned only for themselves and could care less about their fellow Americans. There will be a time when he won't have a penny to spend, and no will care about him either. GM and Chrysler make some good products. The warranties are backed by the govt., so no worry there. I believe the loans to the automakers will work out only if this country mans up and starts slapping import tariffs on the foreign competition. I'm all for free trade if there is a balance, but we're getting killed by unfair foreign competition.


I am still waiting for those UAW guys to help me with my job.
LOL.gif
If you knew anything about the auto industry you would know GM is the first OEM to demand parts be made in China so they could make more profit to fund the UAW obligations. This started back in the early 90's when Lopez was put in charge of Global Purchasing.

BTW, I already saw my first UAW= Un-American Auto Workers bumper sticker on a Honda.


If you knew anything about the auto industry you would know that overall GM has a higher domestic parts content than any import brand. I suppose that guy with the sticker on his Honda is really proud that a lot of the non-union workers at that plant make a whopping 10.50 per hour. May as well have a sticker that says I hate my country and the middle class.


I don't hate my country...just can't stand the UAW. They are not representative of any middle class people in the USA and only care about themselves. Their recent activities are actually illegal. But they did them anyway. GM will never get any more of my money again. Other than what they will steal in free bailouts. May as well have a gun and knife to the throats of the middle class. If anyone hates the American way of life it is the UAW as they have benefited from the perversion of it.



Unions represent the entire working class in this country, because without them, there would be no middle working class.
 
Originally Posted By: 65cuda
I don't see where the UAW has to man up and build a real car. After all they don't have the decision making power of design or marketing. That is the area of the execs. The execs were the ones that made the decision on what designs and what the marketing would be. The same execs that people were having a pity party for because they got fired when GM and Chrysler went bankrupt. The UAW has faults for sure, but blame the people that were suppose to be making the business decisions and not the ones on the floor building the cars.


I agree. My idea would be to tax any income over around 1 million bucks a year at the 90%+ level. I don't believe you can't get good help unless you pay these thieves multi million dollar incomes per year. That whole idea is ridiculous. That way, these people would stop looting their companies and leave that money in the company where it belongs. Also, GM was making products people wanted. They make some of the best trucks and SUV's in the industry. Don't forget Toyota and Nissan were trying to get in the game too before the fuel price increase. They meed help through the transition period and the recession.
 
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