Will GM and Chrysler Bankruptcy Kill Ford??

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900
Location
Brooklyn, NY
How can Ford possibly expect to survive after GM and Chrysler have been taken over by the gov't. The playing field now is inherently unequal and I think this may drive Ford into bankruptcy as well, as they cannot possibly compete with GM and Chrysler, who now owe nothing; even the gov't loans were forgiven!
 
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1,304
Location
Kankakee, IL
Last I read from Ford they expect to be profitable again in 2011. This is with the current down trend. I was working at a dealer in service just over a year ago and the Initial quality survey was on par with Toyota and over the last 5-7 years warranty claims per vehicle are down 70%. They build great cars. Best part is they do not have to build ObamaMobiles so they can respond to customer demand not Obama Evironmental Wacko demands. Ford will be better off. Heck if you are worried about your favorite Chrysler or GM product and Bankruptcy you can now look to your local Ford Store with confidence. Buy a Ford.
 
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606
Location
essex ontario
 Originally Posted By: BimmerMan
Who is going to buy cars from Government Motors? They're going to turn into Amtrak. lol
If true why are they throwing money at them?Liquidation is only a year or two away. Soft landing? No good will come of this Ford crippled,GM still gone I see only two outcomes -If GM has fire sales and makes a temp profit will the treasury get out early or 'hang on to make a bit more for the tax payer'?interfering with product mix.(we want more hybred) -sales slump like bimmer man said and then what ,spend more or bite the bullet and liquidate? In two years will it be any less painful?
 
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6,917
Location
NH
Ford will be fine as they are on solid financial ground still with a good lineup. With the recession( depression ) easing and sales starting to rise a little they should be fine. Only if things collapse again( and they most likely will if gas hits $4+ again )will they be in for it but ALL auto mfg's will. GM and Chrysler will also come out of this leaner and meaner and in better shape to survive. Their future, like all auto mfg's, rests on the economy. GM has plans for some new more economical cars to compliment their larger vehicles and SUV's/trucks and Chrysler now has access to Fiat's smaller economy class vehicles to compliment their larger cars, SUV's, and the Ram. People need to wake up and realize that the Big 3 make some great vehicles. It is not 1979-1985. Very good vehicles offered from all of them( a few turds yes but not all ). Time to stop supporting all these foreign companies who do NOT make better vehicles. This is the USA. It is not Japan and Korea so why support those country's businesses? Support your own darn country's businesses. I actually support the government aid to the US auto companies. At least it is actually supporting US companies and workers, and not more greedy Wall Street exec's and brokerage agencies/companies that got us into this mess and are using the money for corporate parties and bonuses. Also, part or all of the loans to the auto industry "will" be paid back. Just as Chrysler did previously GM and Chrysler will pay abck what they borrowed if we support them and buy their vehicles. They make good ones so no need not to. \:\!
 
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6,367
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Midwest
 Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
People need to wake up and realize that the Big 3 make some great vehicles. It is not 1979-1985. Very good vehicles offered from all of them( a few turds yes but not all ). Time to stop supporting all these foreign companies who do NOT make better vehicles. This is the USA. It is not Japan and Korea so why support those country's businesses? Support your own darn country's businesses.
It's my money, I earned every penny of it and I'll spend it as I please.
 
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22,708
Location
CA
Ford may have good quality, but their vehicles lack the innovation and features of GM vehicles. For example, the Malibu offers better styling, drivetrains (especially with the upcoming 2.4DI) and fuel economy. So I guess boring is a good thing?
 
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5,413
Location
KC
 Originally Posted By: The Critic
Ford may have good quality, but their vehicles lack the innovation and features of GM vehicles. For example, the Malibu offers better styling, drivetrains (especially with the upcoming 2.4DI) and fuel economy. So I guess boring is a good thing?
So you feel GM's 2.4L 169 HP and 33 MPG is a better drivetrain than Ford's 2.5L 175 HP and 34 MPG? Would you rather compare hybrids? I don't think so. As for asthetics, both are nice. Niether one is objectively better than the other but the same cannot be said for the drivetrain.
 
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606
Location
essex ontario
 Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
 Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
People need to wake up and realize that the Big 3 make some great vehicles. It is not 1979-1985. Very good vehicles offered from all of them( a few turds yes but not all ). Time to stop supporting all these foreign companies who do NOT make better vehicles. This is the USA. It is not Japan and Korea so why support those country's businesses? Support your own darn country's businesses.
It's my money, I earned every penny of it and I'll spend it as I please. Iam not American ,so from afar this is the kind of "me first attiude" that could spell the end of your countries leadership in the world of manufacturing and innovation.
 
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PT1

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5,746
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near the mistake
I think Ford will actually benefit. Many consumers like me not wanting to do business with Government Motors because of the ethical issues will now look at Ford products.
 

PT1

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5,746
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near the mistake
 Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
 Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
People need to wake up and realize that the Big 3 make some great vehicles. It is not 1979-1985. Very good vehicles offered from all of them( a few turds yes but not all ). Time to stop supporting all these foreign companies who do NOT make better vehicles. This is the USA. It is not Japan and Korea so why support those country's businesses? Support your own darn country's businesses.
It's my money, I earned every penny of it and I'll spend it as I please.
+1 me too. This is the same analogy as why use UPS or Fedex when you should support the USPS because they are truly "American owned".
 
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606
Location
essex ontario
And another thing ,its not really 'your' money,its like land you just take good care of it for the next generation .Money is the same ,does no good in your hands or bank acc,its what you chose to do with it that counts. Most citizens of other counties understand this ,thats why no matter how much the unions complain about 'unfair' trade they will NEVER buy our cars. NEVER no matter how cheap or good NEVER.Iam sure they are amazed how many cars they can sell to us "dont they get it" no because the poster that said me me me is not at all uncommon. end rant
 
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Messages
1,768
Location
NE
Umm Ford borrowd 28 billion last year and had over 50 billion in prior debt. Basically 78 billion in liabilites it has to pay back. It is also getting no deal on its retiress and VEBA. I think GM has 172 billion in liabilites and 90 billion in cash assets. Chrysler had 6.9 bilion debt and 2.7 billion cash and assets but now that the debt is exchanged and they receive 4 billion form the Feds they will be in good shape going forward from that perspective. Basically pay the 4 billion back to the goverment and the retirees own 55% of the company. I would assume GM will be much better to. Maybe 30 billion they will need to pay back versus 90 billion in the hole. So both wont have the huge amounts of debt they have to serivce and eventually pay back but FOrd will have to pay back that 78 billion and service the debt on it. The media idiots seem to forget that part of the equation.
 Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Ford will be fine as they are on solid financial ground still with a good lineup. With the recession( depression ) easing and sales starting to rise a little they should be fine. Only if things collapse again( and they most likely will if gas hits $4+ again )will they be in for it but ALL auto mfg's will. GM and Chrysler will also come out of this leaner and meaner and in better shape to survive. Their future, like all auto mfg's, rests on the economy. GM has plans for some new more economical cars to compliment their larger vehicles and SUV's/trucks and Chrysler now has access to Fiat's smaller economy class vehicles to compliment their larger cars, SUV's, and the Ram. People need to wake up and realize that the Big 3 make some great vehicles. It is not 1979-1985. Very good vehicles offered from all of them( a few turds yes but not all ). Time to stop supporting all these foreign companies who do NOT make better vehicles. This is the USA. It is not Japan and Korea so why support those country's businesses? Support your own darn country's businesses. I actually support the government aid to the US auto companies. At least it is actually supporting US companies and workers, and not more greedy Wall Street exec's and brokerage agencies/companies that got us into this mess and are using the money for corporate parties and bonuses. Also, part or all of the loans to the auto industry "will" be paid back. Just as Chrysler did previously GM and Chrysler will pay abck what they borrowed if we support them and buy their vehicles. They make good ones so no need not to. \:\!
 
Messages
446
Location
York, PA
 Originally Posted By: VNTS
Umm Ford borrowd 28 billion last year and had over 50 billion in prior debt. Basically 78 billion in liabilites it has to pay back. It is also getting no deal on its retiress and VEBA. I think GM has 172 billion in liabilites and 90 billion in cash assets. Chrysler had 6.9 bilion debt and 2.7 billion cash and assets but now that the debt is exchanged and they receive 4 billion form the Feds they will be in good shape going forward from that perspective. Basically pay the 4 billion back to the goverment and the retirees own 55% of the company. I would assume GM will be much better to. Maybe 30 billion they will need to pay back versus 90 billion in the hole. So both wont have the huge amounts of debt they have to serivce and eventually pay back but FOrd will have to pay back that 78 billion and service the debt on it. The media idiots seem to forget that part of the equation.
+1 Ford has already stated that they will need govt. money if sales are below a worse case scenario this year. At this point, it looks like sales will be way below that point. Hopefully, sales will pick up and Ford won't need the money.
 
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606
Location
essex ontario
Ford borrowed 18 billion in 2006 you knuckle heads should get your facts straight. and they are paying it back as we speak every month just like we pay our debts
 
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1,768
Location
NE
From what I read, they borowed 28 billion last year, since they ran out of cash. They were dead in the water but suckered 28 billion in bonds. This on top of all the money they borrowed before. I would guess at least 50 billion. Last I read last week they had burned thru 20 billion of the 28 billion, are still not profitable and eating thru the last 8 billion. Now they want to issue more stock to pay off their debt. maybe I am mission something but Mullayey must be a good con artist to sell automotive stock after all the GM stockholders are wiped out, who in their right mind will buy Ford or any auto stock???? Internally they are leaking they are concerned since they have still have a huge debt load and GM and Chrysler will not.
 Originally Posted By: Canawler
 Originally Posted By: VNTS
Umm Ford borrowd 28 billion last year and had over 50 billion in prior debt. Basically 78 billion in liabilites it has to pay back. It is also getting no deal on its retiress and VEBA. I think GM has 172 billion in liabilites and 90 billion in cash assets. Chrysler had 6.9 bilion debt and 2.7 billion cash and assets but now that the debt is exchanged and they receive 4 billion form the Feds they will be in good shape going forward from that perspective. Basically pay the 4 billion back to the goverment and the retirees own 55% of the company. I would assume GM will be much better to. Maybe 30 billion they will need to pay back versus 90 billion in the hole. So both wont have the huge amounts of debt they have to serivce and eventually pay back but FOrd will have to pay back that 78 billion and service the debt on it. The media idiots seem to forget that part of the equation.
+1 Ford has already stated that they will need govt. money if sales are below a worse case scenario this year. At this point, it looks like sales will be way below that point. Hopefully, sales will pick up and Ford won't need the money.
 
Messages
446
Location
York, PA
 Originally Posted By: hone eagle
Ford borrowed 18 billion in 2006 you knuckle heads should get your facts straight. and they are paying it back as we speak every month just like we pay our debts
We'll have to split the difference ;\) : WSJ says it's 23.5B http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124381946569170851.html Regardless of the amount, my point is Ford saw some of this coming and acted to raise cash while they still could, but, they are far from healthy, even by their own admission.
 
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1,768
Location
NE
Do a little digging on SEC filings http://www.ford.com/about-ford/investor-relations/company-reports/us-sec-edgar-filings Ford Total debt end of 2008 156 billion, compared to GM at 98 billion. End of 2008 Ford had $13.4B cash plus credit lines of $10.6B. They burned thru $21.2B in 2008. end of 2008 Ford total liabilities were $234B vs $169B at GM Of Fords total debt, $63B is due in 2009. Ford's pension funds are underfunded by $11.9B. They contributed $1.7B in 2008. Draw your own conclusions
 
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