Will GM and Chrysler Bankruptcy Kill Ford??

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Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Ford will be fine as they are on solid financial ground still with a good lineup. With the recession( depression ) easing and sales starting to rise a little they should be fine. Only if things collapse again( and they most likely will if gas hits $4+ again )will they be in for it but ALL auto mfg's will.

GM and Chrysler will also come out of this leaner and meaner and in better shape to survive. Their future, like all auto mfg's, rests on the economy. GM has plans for some new more economical cars to compliment their larger vehicles and SUV's/trucks and Chrysler now has access to Fiat's smaller economy class vehicles to compliment their larger cars, SUV's, and the Ram.

People need to wake up and realize that the Big 3 make some great vehicles. It is not 1979-1985. Very good vehicles offered from all of them( a few turds yes but not all ). Time to stop supporting all these foreign companies who do NOT make better vehicles. This is the USA. It is not Japan and Korea so why support those country's businesses? Support your own darn country's businesses.

I actually support the government aid to the US auto companies. At least it is actually supporting US companies and workers, and not more greedy Wall Street exec's and brokerage agencies/companies that got us into this mess and are using the money for corporate parties and bonuses. Also, part or all of the loans to the auto industry "will" be paid back. Just as Chrysler did previously GM and Chrysler will pay abck what they borrowed if we support them and buy their vehicles. They make good ones so no need not to.
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My last two foreign cars were built in America. My last two American cars weren't. So should I buy American and support foreign workers and American executives? Or American workers and foreign executives? Let me know, I really believe my next vehicle purchase will be based on a patriotic fools feelings.
 
Originally Posted By: D189379


My last two foreign cars were built in America. My last two American cars weren't. So should I buy American and support foreign workers and American executives? Or American workers and foreign executives? Let me know, I really believe my next vehicle purchase will be based on a patriotic fools feelings.


1st of all I never insulted anyone. No need to call me a fool. Uncalled for.

When you buy a Toyota for example that is built here you may support the workers and provide a little tax money but the company profits go over seas. Yes, US automakers send a lot of work out to be done( A lot of assembly in Canada which is ok with me but for the most part otherwise it is parts that are out sourced not final assembly )but at least it is a US business making the money off the final sale. We need to stop propping up foreign countries like China and Japan and start supporting made in the USA, or at least owned in the USA, when we can. Our country will never return to greatness until we become more self sufficient and stop enabling countries like China to grow and take over everything we do.

There is no big gap between foreign vehicles and the Big 3 offerings. If you can't find a car you like from the Big 3 fine go buy a Toyotoa or Honda or whatever. You are supporting foreign business when you do though so don't try and tell me it supports our country. Very small percent of the total does but most leaves our borders. If people would buy American from the Big 3 it would put more US workers to work building them.

I really could care less what you buy but it seems to me in these tough times that are effecting everyone maybe people should start to think about where their money is going. We need to support OUR country and stop supporting these foreign countries. IF that makes me a Patriotic Fool well all I can say is
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I agree with what you are saying NHHEMI, but in D189379's case he is spending his hard earned Canadian dollars, so no matter what he buys his money is leaving the country.
 
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Ford may have good quality, but their vehicles lack the innovation and features of GM vehicles.

For example, the Malibu offers better styling, drivetrains (especially with the upcoming 2.4DI) and fuel economy.

So I guess boring is a good thing?
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Ford's current products trump GM's on styling and features actually, and by a decent margin too.
 
NHHEMI,

How is keeping >5k people employed at the Ohio Honda factory & nearby suppliers not supporting our country (assuming the employees are US citizens, of course)? The same argument applies for any plant that is in the US not matter where the corporate headquarters are located. Take for example the Hein-Werner hydraulic floor jack. HW is owned by Shinn Fu, obviously not a US corporation. Their jacks are made in either MO or GA. Of course, the best scenario is to buy from a private US owned company with products made in the USA, but most often that ain't gonna happen.

GM is, err was, a publicly traded company. Therefore, many of the profits go elsewhere. This also applies to any publicly traded corporation.

It is not as black & white as you seem to be trying to make it.

BTW, I don't think that you are a fool, just misguided (kidding).
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Originally Posted By: benjamming
NHHEMI,
GM is, err was, a publicly traded company. Therefore, many of the profits go elsewhere. This also applies to any publicly traded corporation.


+1

Not to mention that Honda/Toyota/etc... are public companies also. And very popular holdings in mutual funds. So their profits go everywhere too (including most US citizen's retirement funds).


As if I didn't need another reason not to buy from the UAW... After learning about the job banks, production quotas, and other garbage like that over the last few months, I'm not interested in buying UAW products for ethical reasons.
 
It's good to see Ford hanging in there without their snout in the public trough. Mulally was smart enough to mortgage the farm before the financial collapse. Otherwise, there would be three bankruptcies right now.

But they're nowhere near healthy yet, and their burn rate only carries them into next year. And they'll be the first to tell you that.

On a side note, the May numbers came out. Still bad, but improving. Both GM and Ford outsold Toyota in May. GM by a significant margin. Interesting fact for a company now under Government protection.
 
I want a full-size two-door, a real coupe, with a diesel or diesel-hybrid setup under the hood, and a decent choice of colors and options. . . .
 
Originally Posted By: Volvohead

On a side note, the May numbers came out. Still bad, but improving. Both GM and Ford outsold Toyota in May. GM by a significant margin. Interesting fact for a company now under Government protection.


Locally, one of our GM dealers is rumoured to be closing. I drove through their lot the other day, and they had a TON of sold cars, way more than they normally do. All of the local GM dealers have some of the best new car prices I can remember in a long time. I know they have some really good deals on fullsize trucks, which are a big seller in this area.
 
That "unfair playing field" thing is a distraction. You can say that about any company that files for reorganization. It's not like bankruptcy is some free and easy way to beat the competition. They still have to make and sell cars. GM has a huge task ahead of it. (And my opinion is that they are doing it all wrong, but that's another rant...)

It makes me crazy when people who don't understand how stuff works believe the simplifications of biased talking heads and repeat it as fact. Case in point: the US government did not start this mess. GM did by not managing their business correctly. They came begging, and the government did what people normally expect the government to do: control what happens with taxpayer money. SO even though the gov't is doing what they should be doing, OMG liberal muslim Obama is in charge, so we have to make the right thing seem like the wrong thing...
 
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Ford may have good quality, but their vehicles lack the innovation and features of GM vehicles.

For example, the Malibu offers better styling, drivetrains (especially with the upcoming 2.4DI) and fuel economy.

So I guess boring is a good thing?
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Dunno about over there, but Ford Oz have heaps of good stuff.

Ford Focus XR-5 turbo, 5 cyl Volvo engine turbo, in Focus...hardly boring...diesel if you want.
Ford Falcon XR6, XR6 turbo, XR-8.
Utes, 1 tonne utes, 1 tonne 4WD utes.
turbo 6 cyl SUVs in 2 and 4WD (Ford Territory)

They are prolly the most attractive range in terms of variety out there...in Oz that is
 
Originally Posted By: benjamming
Originally Posted By: swalve
[snip] SO even though the gov't is doing what they should be doing,[snip]


this is where we disagree...


You're saying the government shouldn't be maintaining control over what it does with taxpayer dollars?
 
As for current product I think GM is light years behind Ford in product and design. The only GM cars even close to Ford are the Malibu and maybe the corvette but Ford does not make a Corvette class car to compare to.

If Ford can hold on and wait out the socialist power grab of private business from DC they will become the number 1 automaker in the world. Letting the labor contract expire and moving foward without union labor (if Ford and the govt let it happen that way) would be the smartest move in the history of business and would add thousands of American jobs.
 
Originally Posted By: swalve
Originally Posted By: benjamming
Originally Posted By: swalve
[snip] SO even though the gov't is doing what they should be doing,[snip]


this is where we disagree...


You're saying the government shouldn't be maintaining control over what it does with taxpayer dollars?


Government spending is not under control, that's the whole problem...
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My tempo had only one rust area that came back. My cavalier has several sections rusting away despite what I do.
 
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Ford will be fine as they are on solid financial ground still with a good lineup. With the recession( depression ) easing and sales starting to rise a little they should be fine. Only if things collapse again( and they most likely will if gas hits $4+ again )will they be in for it but ALL auto mfg's will.

GM and Chrysler will also come out of this leaner and meaner and in better shape to survive. Their future, like all auto mfg's, rests on the economy. GM has plans for some new more economical cars to compliment their larger vehicles and SUV's/trucks and Chrysler now has access to Fiat's smaller economy class vehicles to compliment their larger cars, SUV's, and the Ram.

People need to wake up and realize that the Big 3 make some great vehicles. It is not 1979-1985. Very good vehicles offered from all of them( a few turds yes but not all ). Time to stop supporting all these foreign companies who do NOT make better vehicles. This is the USA. It is not Japan and Korea so why support those country's businesses? Support your own darn country's businesses.

I actually support the government aid to the US auto companies. At least it is actually supporting US companies and workers, and not more greedy Wall Street exec's and brokerage agencies/companies that got us into this mess and are using the money for corporate parties and bonuses. Also, part or all of the loans to the auto industry "will" be paid back. Just as Chrysler did previously GM and Chrysler will pay abck what they borrowed if we support them and buy their vehicles. They make good ones so no need not to.
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I agree with your statement for the most part.
 
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