Union Looks to Recover Concessions From Ford

[LTVibe]

Originally Posted By: ffl

I think Bill Ford could live EASILY on 1/2 of his income unlike most plant/ manf. workers!

For Bill Ford, it's not about the money. It's about the company that bears his family name: “Anytime anything happens to Ford, it’s personal... when your name is on the building and you have the history and the passion, you’re in for the long haul.” - Bill Ford

 

[Kestas]

I'm not bothered so much by Bill Ford's compensation as I am with Alan Mulally's. Henry Ford took chances, invested, and built his empire. The Ford family deserves to reap the rewards of this entrepeneureal risk. Mulally came in to the company with nothing risked. He probably didn't do anything special to move the company forward that anyone else could have done for a lot cheaper. Of course that's not my call so much as Bill Ford's. It's up to him to decide where the company money should be spent.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Slick17601

They should be [censored] glad they have a job and leave it at that.

I agree. No union lover here. Maybe this time they'll succed in sinking Ford.

 

[morris]

to: LS2JSTS sorry i misunderstood you. this subject has many issues, and i tend to separate them. i have been in a union for 25 years. and ill tell you we needed a union. we had such bad management that they got threats on there life.

 

[mechanicx]

That's the issue I see for unions. It's not just about wages or even workload but working conditions and some protection from capricious and arbitrary treatment and terminations by poor management. There's plenty of managers that will waste company money and time just to make their employees miserable.

 

[stodgey]

The fact is that if not for union concessions over the past decade or so Ford would have been up a creek. If the reinstatement of compensation is reasonable it is ludicrous not to make give it back. After all these are the people that also buy many of what Ford produces . This is definitely a time when Unions pay for the dues you give them. The company is very healthy and profitable, the rank and file employees have made this possible, the top brass tacks got theirs, now it is time for rank and file to get theirs ....too.

 

[1001hobbies]

Originally Posted By: meangreen01

Originally Posted By: 1001hobbies

As for the two tier system, can you imagine working somewhere for 20 years and then you are told your wages will be cut in half? What do you do about your home and family now? Multiply that by 130,000 people. What would you do? That's why the two tier system was used. Yes, it has it's problems. The biggest one I see is getting ANYONE to do that work for that wage. GM cannot keep workers at that wage in 2 plants.

I'd be curious to see a source for that. Here in WI a truck manufacturer had a job fair for ~700 jobs. 1700 people showed up. Even with an increase in turnover for the entry level positions I doubt there's a real issue finding people for those jobs. It definately isn't a workers market right now, particularly if you lack education or skilled training. http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/117061493.html

I can contact a worker at the GM Lordstown plant. I could have him join here and post, if he would, about his experience dealing with new hires at his plant, working for $14/hr. He is a member of another board I visit. He is one of two sources I had for this information. I am trying to remember where I read posts by the other worker at a different GM plant. Would you believe a worker who has to train the new lower tier workers at GM? I am not saying that $14/hr is not a good wage, especially in this economy. I am also not saying that GM has a problem getting people to apply for the jobs or even start the jobs. What I AM saying is that once the people start training on the jobs and see everything they have to do, feel it in their feet, backs, and shoulders, their hands start to crack (noise) and elbows don't want to work, these people are not willing to sacrifice their bodies for this kind of pay. That is why Henry Ford had to double the wage to retain people back in 1917. It eats up your body, and $14/hr is not worth it. A miner is paid well not because he is highly skilled, it's because the work environment is rough, hazardous, and dangerous. It's the same thing on the assembly line. What saved Ford was not cutting down on the 8% of the cost to build a vehicle, which is labor, it was the total restructuring of the company that makes up the other 92% of the cost to build a vehicle. The UAW is still at Ford. Most all the workers are still getting paid the same wage they were paid in 2005. We still have very good benefits, yet Ford made $6.3 billion last year, and at one time last year was the highest profitable manufacturer in the world. In the end they were beat by Volkwagen, who was not going through the same restructuring that Ford was. GM sold more vehicles but Ford made more money, even with the UAW. That's because that 8% is not the only place where cost savings were made. Maybe that percentage is down to 6% now, but what saved Ford was changing the way they fundamentally run their company. Ford no longer has to have anything on their books for retiree healthcare because of the VEBA. That represent billions of dollars. The union voted for it after Ford suggested it. A lot of what was given up was to make things look good in the eye of the public. Nobody guesses that only 8% of the cost to build a car is in total labor. I get responses like 50%, 70%, and 45%. So by giving up things the public believed THAT is how Ford was being saved. Sure, Ford did get a benefit out of it, but in no way could it alone have saved the company, even if we worked for free. That would have only cut 8% of the cost of building a vehicle, and Ford needed much more than that. So now that we are down to about 6% of the total cost of a vehicle, in labor, we wouldn't mind getting back 1/2% since the company is doing so well now. Is that a crime? Steve

 

[Tempest]

Ford still has about $19 billion in debt. So their current bottom line might look good, but there is a large ball of money they have to pay back. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/02/10/business/main7338321.shtml

 

[Tempest]

Quote:

that other countries isn't really THE market but another market from the US with different cost structure. The US worker can't and shouldn't compete with that.

You talk as though there is a choice. The market is global and pretending that the US can avoid this reality is counter productive.

 

[LS2JSTS]

Originally Posted By: Tempest

Ford still has about $19 billion in debt. So their current bottom line might look good, but there is a large ball of money they have to pay back. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/02/10/business/main7338321.shtml

As it stands today, Fords outstanding debt is about equal to their cash on hand. So while they are still carrying that large debt on their books, they could pay it off tomorrow, but that would leave them strapped for cash.

 

[Tempest]

I couldn't find their cash reserves, but they aren't paying any taxes right now:

Quote:

Ford, which hasn’t paid U.S. taxes since 2005, may not pay federal taxes until the end of the decade because it still would have tax-loss benefits on its books from $31.4 billion in operating losses sustained from 2005 to 2009, said Brian Johnson, a Chicago-based analyst with Barclays Capital Management.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-03...xpert-says.html That's gotta' help their bottom line.

 

[1001hobbies]

Originally Posted By: Tempest

Ford still has about $19 billion in debt. So their current bottom line might look good, but there is a large ball of money they have to pay back. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/02/10/business/main7338321.shtml

Ford paid off another $3 billion after the article you linked to... http://detnews.com/article/20110211/AUTO01/102110331/Ford-acts-to-reduce-debt-by-$3B ...which brings current debt to $16.1 billion. This is after having paid off $14.5 billion in debt in 2010 while doubling profits to $6.6 billion. Ford's goal is to have their debt paid off, or at a "regular level" (automakers always have some debt) by the end of this year. Imagine how much profit they will have after they have no debt to pay off! Steve